Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Abuse and Consent


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Abuse and Consent Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:31:05 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		This post is inspired by another thread in the Ask a Submissive section but I did not want to hijack that thread with these thoughts.  The idea was brought up that if a person consents to something then it cannot be abuse.  However, I have a hard time accepting that concept because of what I consider abuse to be and to me consent is irrelevant to it. 

Through discussions with my Lord, I have come to the conclusion that someone is abusive when it is reasonable to expect that their actions would harm another person.  We consider harm to have occurred when a person has been permanently damaged or is less of a person than before the incident.

What is harmful and abusive will vary depending on the people involved and the circumstances, but I do not think that consent will change whether something is abusive or not.  In my relationship, I gave my consent for him to do whatever he wanted with me.  However, there are things that would be harmful to me and if he chose to do them, then he would be abusive.

I am curious to hear other's opinions on what part, if any, consent plays in your ideas of abuse.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:36:59 PM   
Mikal


Posts: 3673
Status: offline 		My idea is that abuse is wrong, no matter the context. If someone is being damaged (emotionally, physically, mentally), then the perpetrator is an abuser. Consent imo, is irrelevant. Just because someone says you can 'abuse' them, it doesn't make it ok if actual abuse occurs.
 
I hope I'm making myself clear on this.

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:40:20 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		That sounds like a pretty good definition to me, kyra. If you know what you're doing is going to harm someone, I'd classify that as abuse (if non-consensual, of course).

I agree with Mikal, too. If you know it's going to hurt them, then even if they agree, it could still be abuse (I really do understand this last part, but I do think that here is where this convo will really can become even more interesting...sits back and waits to see what develops)...I guess this is where "pushing limits" and "really knowing one's submissive or slave" starts to count a lot (to me).

I guess I don't mind someone "testing or pushing" my limits. I am not big on complete surprises or delving into not previously agreed upon territory with absolutely no notice, though (to me that's a bit abusive - maybe even if someone is a slave vs. a submissive).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/4/2006 5:51:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:46:01 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Im sure lots of people have gotten to the point where they think they are NOT abusing another by their actions, so this idea seems very subjective to me. Whats abuse to you may be all in good fun to me.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:51:24 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		My thoughts:
Abuse is abuse if it harms someone (this is different than hurting someone, which we do in SM). What harms someone will vary from person to person. Consent doesn't mean it's not harmful, only that the person giving consent 1) has been caught by surprise (as in mental landmine) and the result can be seen as abuse or 2) wanting to be abused (in which case, they aren't mentally healthy). If the first scenario happens, the abuse isn't intentional (question: is it then really abuse?). If it's the second scenario, there's only so much someone can do to force a person to leave that situation if they don't want to.

So, I'd agree that consent doesn't make abuse ok...but we have to remember that what is and isn't abuse changes from person to person.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:53:40 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Good question about scenario #1, particularly, Master Fire Ma'am, I think. If it's not intentional, I don't think it's abuse. Which isn't to say it still can't be harmful (I think it still can be, of course).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/4/2006 6:12:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 5:56:27 PM   
SamKeithsslave


Posts: 322
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

This post is inspired by another thread in the Ask a Submissive section but I did not want to hijack that thread with these thoughts.  The idea was brought up that if a person consents to something then it cannot be abuse.  However, I have a hard time accepting that concept because of what I consider abuse to be and to me consent is irrelevant to it. 

Through discussions with my Lord, I have come to the conclusion that someone is abusive when it is reasonable to expect that their actions would harm another person.  We consider harm to have occurred when a person has been permanently damaged or is less of a person than before the incident.

What is harmful and abusive will vary depending on the people involved and the circumstances, but I do not think that consent will change whether something is abusive or not.  In my relationship, I gave my consent for him to do whatever he wanted with me.  However, there are things that would be harmful to me and if he chose to do them, then he would be abusive.

I am curious to hear other's opinions on what part, if any, consent plays in your ideas of abuse.

Knight's kyra


I think maybe it all comes down to why we consent. I do not wish to be flogged or whipped, but if I consented to it because it gave me some sexual gratification and I enjoyed the amount of pain it caused (whether that pain be mild or extreme), then I wouldnt class that as abuse necessarily.
However if I believed I had no choice but to allow myself to be flogged and/or whipped and I gained no pleasure from the act I would consider that abuse.
I also think that if you are being punched, kicked, biten or slapped, the fact that this physical contact is hands on, so to speak, I'd view this as abuse. However, I dont know why, but I dont consider spanking to be in this catagory.


_____________________________

Happiness does not find us, we must go out and find it for ourselves.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:05:49 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear kyraofMists, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
This is a good thread to carry, as it becomes a new level of the needs to have individuals define what constitutes abuse and or consent.
 
In my mind's eyes, humans have knowledge from their heart/mind and spirit if their intentions are willfull and purposeful.  It is like the one who receives your hug or kiss, knows it is for real and not a falsehood.  You can tell what words fail to describe, as it is more a feeling, a spirituality experience and or emotion.  Just as somebody can 'feel' the difference in energy when the strike is in anger and or hate; to which transfers even through tools/gear used.  The same can be said about the love transmitted.
 
In my mind's eyes--consent is permission.  With permission, there comes responsibilities as well as duties, associated with that permission and or trust.  The abuse comes when the other steps over that thread of a line, when the abuse is knowingly done--which is not an accident (which could/may happen) and willfully done knowing of the consequences and affects/effects.
 
I also see in my mind's eyes, that withholding information, knowledge and or not fully disclosing is a willful act that denies another to make a fully informed choice.  This also includes behaviors which might cause alarm for an individual.  If somebody withholds an anger, drug, disease and or criminal issue, it denies me the right to know and make an informed choice on how to handle things.  Knowing up front is preferred, as far as I am concerned, but that is me--as I hate surprises and why I don't do birthdays.
 
Unfortunately, for those standing along the curb and watching things unfold before us; which in our (in a general sense) mind's eyes would be abusive or destructive, negative and or is questionable--are often put into the position of helplessness other than waving flags of caution, giving advice and or support, opinions and such.  Because it is an individual adult choice the only thing one can do is be 'here' (in a general sense) to pick up the pieces and hope that before the situation breaks and or wrecks; that those concerns will see that there is a genuine concern for all involved.
 
In summary, abuse is a willfull, calculated and purposeful manifested as to manipulate, control, to harm, to change, to deny, to withhold, to do ill and or injury; to which trust gained and permission granted and word/bond/contract and or law is broken.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 
 
 
 

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:06:37 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Reposted:
Unfortunately due to the nature of what "abuse" is- it is left entirely in the hands of the abused.  If they feel they have been abused, then they must treat it as so.  And frankly, that's when abuse has happened- when the person feels so.

Might have a harder time convincing a jury, but that's nothing to do with how they themselves cope.
...

If they felt a need to hide what was going on, if I felt them withdraw into themselves, and if they were a good friend of mine, I'd talk to them about it and see how they felt. 

They really are the ones with the power to allow the abusive relationship to continue or to end it.  You can talk to them, let them know their options, be there for them if you can- but otherwise, they have to make the choice for themselves.

I also think the abuse word gets WAY overused in the scene by scorned women who ended up with a dork asshole.


http://www.collarchat.com/m_130087/mpage_1/key_sadist%252Cabuse/tm.htm#130087
What is a sadist?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308357/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#308357
Training and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_255676/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#255676
Defining Domination v Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_224182/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#224182
Ms/Ds is it a license to abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_177013/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#177013
Discipline or abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_142096/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#142096
Abuse vs discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_131849/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#131849
Abuse disguised as dominance

http://www.collarchat.com/m_123045/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#123045
Overuse of "Abuse"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_47262/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#47262
Physical Abuse of a slave

http://www.collarchat.com/m_41029/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#41029
SM vs Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1874/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#1874
BDSM versus Abuse



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:08:10 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

This post is inspired by another thread in the Ask a Submissive section but I did not want to hijack that thread with these thoughts.  The idea was brought up that if a person consents to something then it cannot be abuse.  However, I have a hard time accepting that concept because of what I consider abuse to be and to me consent is irrelevant to it. 

Through discussions with my Lord, I have come to the conclusion that someone is abusive when it is reasonable to expect that their actions would harm another person.  We consider harm to have occurred when a person has been permanently damaged or is less of a person than before the incident.

What is harmful and abusive will vary depending on the people involved and the circumstances, but I do not think that consent will change whether something is abusive or not.  In my relationship, I gave my consent for him to do whatever he wanted with me.  However, there are things that would be harmful to me and if he chose to do them, then he would be abusive.

I am curious to hear other's opinions on what part, if any, consent plays in your ideas of abuse.

Knight's kyra


I've always been of the school of thought that abuse is that which damages another in a way that, no matter the extent of physical, emotional, and/or mental recovery that takes place, leaves the recipient changed in a way that is "less" than they were before...less sure of themselves, physically impaired, emotionally shut down, etc..  As sophia37 noted though, this is where the conversation is going to get interesting, for someone has already noted that what may seem like abuse to you may be fun for them.  But there again, perhaps sophia is referring to types of play, levels of play, intensity of play...and what we need to look at for abuse is that aspect noted by kyra and KOM and Susan and myself (and I am sure there will be others) and that is the end-result of the "play" or the situation (because abuse could be occurring outside of play).

It's a difficult situation to gauge...I've known masochists who enjoyed being beaten to the point where they could hardly walk the next day.  On the intellectual side, I know that ongoing beatings of this type are probably going to create physical problems someday.  But that's someday.  And...there are people who go out and ride moto-cross and play football and so on and so forth and some of those activities are no doubt going to create a problem for them someday.  I am sure there are submissives out there who crave not just humiliation but abject humiliation that I would consider degradation of the worst sort.  We've discussed this on the boards before...the idea that it becomes degrading when the humiliation is not a sexual/mental "turn-on", when it damages self-esteem, etc.  But there again, that is subjective for each person.  The best example of the subjectivity of humiliation that I can think of is the number of submissives who have stated on here that they were proud to be called "slut" by their dominant AND the number of submissives who proclaimed just as strongly that they were "nobody's slut".




(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:10:25 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

My thoughts:
Abuse is abuse if it harms someone (this is different than hurting someone, which we do in SM). What harms someone will vary from person to person. Consent doesn't mean it's not harmful, only that the person giving consent 1) has been caught by surprise (as in mental landmine) and the result can be seen as abuse or 2) wanting to be abused (in which case, they aren't mentally healthy). If the first scenario happens, the abuse isn't intentional (question: is it then really abuse?). If it's the second scenario, there's only so much someone can do to force a person to leave that situation if they don't want to.

So, I'd agree that consent doesn't make abuse ok...but we have to remember that what is and isn't abuse changes from person to person.

Master Fire



I agree that harm is very subjective.  There are certain forms of play that I get great gratification from, but others consider it to be abusive (kicking and punching are two of them). 

As for whether intention is needed to consider something abusive; I don't think that it necessarily is.  A drunk driver does not necessarily intend to harm others, but it is reasonable to expect that intoxication will increase the possibility of an serious accident that could result in harm to others.  I would consider this to be abusive, even though the person's intent may not have been to harm someone when they decided to drive the car.

I think most things need to be taken on a case by case basis to determine if they are abusive or not.

Knight's kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:30:27 PM   
nikaa


Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		 
Many outside of the BDSM world beleive that much of what goes on within our households and our relationships is abuse. The reality is things are not always what they seem. Not only does the definition of abuse vary from person to person but I beleive it also changes due to our personal life experiences.

In the end only I can judge if someone is being abusive to me, or if it is something else.
 
That being said I also beleive that the word abuse is used far to often and far to many innocent people are left stigmatices because they where labeled an abuser by someone.


< Message edited by nikaa -- 12/4/2006 6:33:25 PM >

_____________________________

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika


The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.


Wakan Tankan Nici Un




(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:33:09 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with you about the drunk driving scenario, kyra (on second thought, maybe intent isn't always important).

Anyone: What if...

1) A person has agreed to be a "no limits" slave....and their Master then, for instance...

2) Decides to "push their limits" and suddenly, without warning (if the person is a slave, then, technically no "pre-negotiations" are needed to change any "play-time "game-plan" - at least that is my understanding - although I realize this agreement about what constitutes a "slave" is situational between two people but - bear with me)....

So anyway, the Master decides that tonight he is going to scare the Hell out of his slave with a heavy version of "knife-play" . The Master is a Sadist (which is neither here nor there, but anyway)- he knows his slave hates knifeplay.

He also has been craving knife-play and he (technically) doesn't have to care it scares the slave (since the partner is a slave and not a submissive) whether she (or he) "wants to" engage in knife-play - or not. Fact is, though, that knife-play absolutely terrifies his slave. However, he has made no promises to not engage in  it with said slave due to this - and this is a "no limits" slave, after all.

So - he goes to the kitchen and finds the biggest Chef's knife in a drawer (huge) and comes back in the room waving it and holds it to her (his) throat, and starts cutting (very lightly). The slave is absolutely terrified. Of course, the slave wants to please the Master but -

Is this "abuse"? I have no opinion (honestly). I am just posing a question (really I am curious what others think).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/4/2006 6:44:01 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:36:12 PM   
nikaa


Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		1) A person has agreed to be a "no limits" slave....and their Master then, for instance...
 
Kills them is it abuse or consentual play?
*laughs*
 
(After all if they are no limit slaves then even being killed is not a limit, right?)

_____________________________

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika


The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.


Wakan Tankan Nici Un




(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:39:05 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

We consider harm to have occurred when a person has been permanently damaged or is less of a person than before the incident.



I think to me this is when "good clean fun" can turn into abuse.

Optimally, when a sub walks away from a scene, they feel vitality, pride, some sense of accomplishment. This will come in varying degrees I am sure but still..it is a positive "feeling" that they are left with.

If they walk away from a situation feeling diminished as a person somehow, that is when the question begs to be asked.."was it abuse?". I am not saying that EVERYONE this happens to is automatically abused..these feelings can be brought forth due to circumstances affecting either the top or the bottom. It is in the answers to the question that the decision of whether or not it is abuse comes about.

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:39:38 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well okay. That answer (to me) is yes, it would be abuse (in my opinion, not to mention  illegal - killing someone). I still think some scenarios are situational, and am starting to understand why the law might have a hard time with the concept of a "no limits" slave....

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to nikaa)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:40:25 PM   
SamKeithsslave


Posts: 322
Joined: 11/7/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

So - he goes to the kitchen and finds the biggest Chef's knife in a drawer (huge) and comes back in the room waving it and holds it to her (his) throat. The slave is absolutely terrified. Of course, the slave wnts to please the Master but -

Is this "abuse"? I have no opinion (honestly). I am just posing a question (really I am curious what others think).

- Susan


IMO - yes, as it does irreversable mental damage. I know many believe/feel that because they are a slave they are property and therefore it is up to their Masters what they do etc. I have always felt though that a Master truly worthy of this type of freedom with a slave would respect the slave enough not to abuse them.

_____________________________

Happiness does not find us, we must go out and find it for ourselves.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:43:25 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SamKeithsslave

IMO - yes, as it does irreversable mental damage. I know many believe/feel that because they are a slave they are property and therefore it is up to their Masters what they do etc. I have always felt though that a Master truly worthy of this type of freedom with a slave would respect the slave enough not to abuse them.


Ahh but what if it doesnt.. What if in fact the slave grows from this experience and ends up feeling proud of herself for giving into her owner's need and learns that "what doesnt kill us makes us stronger".... What if she finds she actually now enjoys knife play?

What if the play did NOT do irreversible brain damage? Then is it abuse?

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to SamKeithsslave)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:44:13 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I agree about abuse being subjective.  I do not think the definition of abuse lies solely with consent and/or intention. I think in some cases abuse is unknown until its result is manifested.  I believe abuse is the breaking of one's spirit, whether it is gradual over time or immediate. 

I consented to everything my ex husband did, because I was trying to live according to my true self.  I did not realize that could not be done within that particular relationship.  In good faith, I submitted to a man who was not mentally healthy, unbeknownst to me.  He didn't intend to hurt me as he did.  He didn't intend to get inside my head and cause confusion, pain, self doubt and destruction.  He was doing what he thought was right, even though it was very, very wrong.  He never laid a hand on me, except for the day I could not take anymore and pointed a gun pointed to my head.  He did grab me and throw me across the room that day in an effort to make me release my own weapon.  He thought he loved me, after all.  What I learned later is his definition of love was a sick need, which picked apart my very essence in an effort to fill his own.

Our marriage counselor said ours was an abusive relationship in which I suffered emotional trauma.  He was right, but I consented to it.  My ex still believes there was no abuse, because he never intended abuse.  Yet the result of our dynamic was my crushed spirit, and my loss of desire to bother living anymore.

Yet now, in the ownership of my Master where I have flourished and found inner happiness and peace, I hear from others that I am abused.  They might hear things he says to me and weigh it against their own history, where their emotional buttons are pushed.  They may hear that he takes his frustrations out on me and as a result they might want to wave red flags in my face, warning me to get out, fast!  They do not see that my spirit is soaring with him, and that the foundation we have created enables such activity to feed us both.

So, while I realize I took the scenic route to make my point, I wanted to illustrate that looks may be deceiving, and that I think what happens in the heart of a person is what defines whether his or her experience is abusive or not.   When your gut constantly aches -  in fear or trepidation or dread - when you walk on eggshells, when you think so little of yourself that you feel you do not deserve goodness, when you are at the hand of someone who makes you feel bad about yourself, those to me are signs of abuse. 

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Abuse and Consent - 12/4/2006 6:47:10 PM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


I've always been of the school of thought that abuse is that which damages another in a way that, no matter the extent of physical, emotional, and/or mental recovery that takes place, leaves the recipient changed in a way that is "less" than they were before...less sure of themselves, physically impaired, emotionally shut down, etc.. 




I agree with CreativeDominants analogy  

In the context  of consentual  BDSM i think abuse also occurs when the party in authority exploits the knowledge and trust granted in the dynamic to the above effect.  Its hard to draw the line in this context  due to many reasons listed above. But unfortunately it is no more uncommon than is abuse of varying degrees in all lifestyles and relationships.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Abuse and Consent Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.113