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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/8/2006 8:57:29 AM   
mgdartist


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From: irving tx
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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/8/2006 2:51:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

A Man does not hit a Woman except under very rare circumstances. At our first little talk I explained to him that he must be a Man and walk away


A person should not hit another person except under rare circumstances... sex, gender, and age should not factor into it. I last spanked my son when he was 4, and I wish I never had. I do not believe in hitting people... especially if I can just walk away.

I did not say that you belong in jail, but I have a thing about hitting anyone, and I do not correct other people's children, she should have addressed it herself... and I do not believe that you have any right interacting with a child you have no respect for, but that is an ethical and not a legal question.

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(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/8/2006 10:09:50 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		I take your point. You have every right to your opinion, but in my opinion I did no wrong. Had you been there, any number of things could've happened. But you weren't.

We can't rehash this forever.

T

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/8/2006 10:47:01 PM   
CandleInTheWind


Posts: 347
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		I am going to try and put my dollars with on this one....

My daughter was 2 montsh short of her 18th bithday...for the 200th time i told her not to make a PB&J sandwish on a particular counter and she "went off" on me...i was 2 weeks post op after having a double mastectomy at the time.....what did i do?  NOTHING she had been having an ongoing issue with her father who was playingwith her mind and trying to get her to move out of the house so that he wouldnt have to pa child support fo rthat kid....his actions affected her I did my best  but she was the one that was pushing limits beyond tolerance and then it came upon the day that i was wrestling with my daughter after having amjor surgery...i had to call the police and have her taken for a psych evaluation....

I only wish that we would have had a family friend that knew her and i well enough to have a wake up talk with her...buut well we didnt...so my daughter has a psych record and a domestic violence history....is it my fault?

that is what alot of you are saying that becasue the male child in this case went blotto  it was the moms fault...well is it my fault? if so why and if not  why not??


I see that we as parents try to teach the kids the best as we can, and we all do the best we can, but kids are not perfect and neither are we!
little red

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 2:21:10 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		It is a shame that so few of us have the time and/or inclination to do it right in the first place. I don't have the time. Others don't have the inclination and can fritter and can waste the hours in an offhand way.

Personally, I mean by that my opinion, I believe the first five years of life are the most important.This is not just a hunch, there is research all over the place out there. My opinion didn't come from a cracker jack box. I did my own research and self study.

But the how did my Parents get me to do that ? There are ways to get a young child's attention. "Hey, look at this helicopter".

Instilling an intellecetual interest in anything, ANYTHING is a positive move. Kids might change their direction later, but at least they have a direction to change.

Another thing just ocurred to me, the slapboxing, I insisted that the kid slap me first. I took my glasses off and took one FIRST. This was to demonstrate the lack of anger.

All in all, I would say that revenge is not a deadly sin, but anger is. Anger tears a person up inside, in their mind. Holding a grudge can destroy you without ever touching them.

Management of anger is a farce, you must be able to selectively disconnect. You refuse the anger. You simply refuse to feel it, and sports for the young is actually a good way to teach that.

In other words, people with sense can discern the difference between stinuli and response. You can be friends with someone on a rival football team. There is a world out there.

That is the point.

T

(in reply to CandleInTheWind)
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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 6:45:22 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
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Status: offline 		It is hard to have morals without external influence.  People learn most by what they see.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 6:51:39 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		those of us who spend our greatest time in the pursuit of amorality, don't get the gimmick at all.

Ron 

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 6:55:17 AM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
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Status: offline 		Any man who treats his mother like shit, is not worth having.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 9:10:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50
Any man who treats his mother like shit, is not worth having.

I'd happen to disagree with that...but then there are mothers and fathers in my family who aren't good enough to even be treated like shit.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/9/2006 9:40:47 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdartist

It's simply a battle of wills, ad yours has to be ever alpha,
 

 
I would agree with this.  My lawn gorillas knew I was the alpha in the household from day one.
 
quote:
 
 and backed up with iron, if you're to raise good kids.



I never hit my unmentionables.  I almost never yelled at them.  I did not have to punish them much.
 
I was, however, always in control.
 
Neither of them are drug addicts, criminals, disrespectful.
 
One of them got a 1587 on her SAT and a free ride at one of the best colleges in the nation.
 
The other will graduate from a math honors magnet next year.
 
[sarcasm]
 
But I know that my refusal to hit or punish (backing it up with iron, as the poster mentions) my unmentionables is what resulted in them being a pair of screwed up losers.
 
Thank you for clarifying the inherent problems in my parenting style, mgdartist
 
[/sarcasm]
 
Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.
 
Sinergy

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/10/2006 8:26:51 AM   
WyrdRich


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Joined: 1/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not like seeing kids called names, my opinion.



I would agree with this.  Although I would go even further and state that I do not like seeing anybody called names.  I once coached my kid's soccer team, and I told them first thing out that it is not possible to build oneself up by putting other people down. 


Sinergy 



      Unless it's Monkeyboy of course...   New rule;  Don't go into a thread about the difficulties of raising unmentionables without a good pair of hip waders, it gets DEEP.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/10/2006 9:07:37 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

Any man who treats his mother like shit, is not worth having.


Why just a mother?

agirl

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/10/2006 12:09:23 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I did indeed misname the thread. I don't know the right words right now, but it is obvious there is external influence.

T

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/10/2006 12:47:03 PM   
cuddleheart50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

Any man who treats his mother like shit, is not worth having.


Why just a mother?

agirl




Because this is what This thread is about, a mother.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/11/2006 12:29:03 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		Not to be contrary, but the thread was never about mothers.  It was about one persons reflection on morality.  People chose to ignore the intent of the thread and turn it into a  "it's all the mother/parents fault" thread... by focusing  only on the mother in the example that the OP gave. Unfortunately, it made the initial point moot....Sorry OP

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/11/2006 7:37:16 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I have a now older teen with mental illness. I cannot tell you how many people have over the years seen her act in a manner more consistent with a child ten years younger and then come up and tell me what a poor mother I must be.

My response has always been to question their intelligence. If a teen acted more like a toddler in my presence, I would offer the names of competent therapists and adolescent psychiatrists to the mother. I would not assume that he was normal, I would assume he had major problems that had not been diagnosed or treated by the school system despite mandates on special education.

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RE: Morals without external influence - 12/11/2006 8:00:23 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		GR:

Humans do not come out of the womb and learn right from wrong, simply by 'getting older'.  They need to be raised. 

Chronilogically aging  from infanthood to young adulthood, in and of itself is not going to teach a kid character and ethics.  There is no "external influence" thats going to work.  Parents are responsible to do the best job they know how.   

And sometimes parents do a good job and have problems anyway.  And other times....More often than not (but not always) kids turn out dysfunctional because its what they lived growing up. 

Candle if your question was addressed to me, as I see you responded to me, when you ask was it your fault.  I don't think this kind of stuff is about assigning blame. If my kid's father was fucking with her head, Id probably be more taken up with "undoing" the damage by talking with her about it, instead of adding to it, by getting on her shit about which counter she was making her sandwich on. But that's just me...

on edit:  D'oh!  I didnt complete my thought.  Its not about blame...Its not about blaming the father for being an asshole, or blaming your kid for not listening. Its about   hmmmm what can I do to correct/change, or otherwise help this situation, instead of looking for someone else to blame so I can cop out and sleep at night knowing I did nothing wrong.  That whole parental tude is lame. 

< Message edited by marieToo -- 12/11/2006 8:16:18 AM >

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