Morals without external influence

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Termyn8or -> Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 12:14:05 AM)
Tell the young, dirty deeds never get undone. I am way past my bedtime, but so what. I don't know how to put this, but I think it is important. We all fuck up. I have done things for which I should not yet even be eligible for parole. I am 46. I was nuts. I had a little talk with a juvenile delinquent, smacked him around a bit because he hit his Mother in the breast. It was not pleasant for him to say the least. At 17 he started crying and ran away. Among my last words were "If you are a man, walk out the door", and he did. I did not hurt the kid in any way, but nonetheless he showed up about ten minutes later accompanied by two police cars. I had my little plan. I figured if they arrested me I would tell him, wearing handcuffs (and not for fun) that if he ever hit his Mother again I would put him in the hospital, and he would have reminders for the rest of his life. I explained to him already how to do certain things, when I talked to him about a year ago. He cried when I tried to teach him how to slap box. Now don't give me this abuse shit, this fucker is 250 lbs. and as tall as me. He hits a Woman who gave him life and is now supporting his dead ass. Lazy shiftless and stupid. Well he knew to keep his mouth shut. He didn't say a word to the cops. He doesn't even know my last name and there were eight witnesses on my side. This is fear, that is intimidation. It is evil and bad, but it is what he did to his own Mother. All that is not really the subject of this post, strangely is is something I told the boy some months prior. There is a time in your life when young that you are seemingly immortal. I mean it, I didn't just get almost ran over by one car, we are talking four. The brakes worked and that is why I am here to tell about it, and it is that kind of luck that made me get wilder. I bought my way out of trouble numerous times and I simply didn't care. I wasn't completely self aware, but the MOST important thing is this, the reason I try to be good now. Regret. I live with a certain amount of guilt, and it was not instilled by Mom, I seem to have picked it up on my own. And I can now report that it NEVER goes away. NEVER. Period. Show this to your young ones. I have been stupid. Alcohol is involved, back then I got drunk and committed crimes, not a whole lot but a few. Now I can't sleep without drinking. Do you hear me ? Do you understand. The history of your life stands forever, there is no eraser. You can have your record expunged, you can even go to a hacker and get your record changed, I know someone who did that. But the truth is still the truth. When you really grow up this guilt hits you. When you gain a cohesion to society and really don't want to hurt anyone, and you are careful about it, like not driving drunk etc. When you finally do take responsibility for yourself, that is about the time it will come to youi that you are not an island and the world does not revolve around you. Boys and girls, the downside here is that you are resposible for all of your actions, but you can do whatever you want. All the reckless behaviour of the past is gone now, but what of the results. If you ever kill or maim anyone, that becomes harder and harder to live with as you mature. Because of my misdeeds in the past, I might eventually do myself in. I have hurt people I loved, and they are dead now. What the hell do I do? You think about that for yourself. It is important and it is important now, before shit happens. Shit you can not undo. Life is a one way street. A public service announcement by someone who has been up for over 50 hours. Nitey nite. BTW, I mean every word of that, if you can't undo it, do not do it. T

LotusSong -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 4:43:20 AM)
Well said.

missturbation -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 7:52:49 AM)
I agree that what is done can't be undone and think that yes before you do anything you should think of the consequences. However i can't show this post to my young one as i cant advocate your dealings with the juvenile who hit his mum. Violence only breeds violence in my opinion so to smack him around a bit really doesnt help. That said i think its great that you now accept responsibilty for you own actions and want to help others see there is a time you have to face up to what you have done and havent done. [:D]

juliaoceania -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 8:20:26 AM)
Having a teen unmentionable boy I have to say that if he hit me, well I musta had it coming. In other words children are not reared in a vacuum. If my child hit me that means I did something extremely wrong in raising him. If my child was so imbalanced as to strike me, well that means I have not been doing my job and I have let him down... Here you are, a 46 year old man, insulting this half baked kid who obviously has a crappy life, calling him names, putting him down. He seems to be in need of some serious intervention, and instead of calling a therapist to see if he has some sort of chemical imbalance his mother calls you because she can't cope, and you are someone that obviously has no affection for the kid... what was SHE thinking? If my kid hit me, I would be getting him help, not calling some man to "save me" from my own spawn. As to the rest of this, well I am the accumulation of all my experiences. Some of them I am not proud of, some of them I am, but I have learned from everything. I suppose that is just the thing, everyone has their road to travel and their mistakes to make. PS. I am not one to usually blame the mother in most circumstances, but when I see someone call a half baked teenager all these bad things, and not even ask "What has the mother done about this angry kid" Well I tend to side with the person that has little life experience to guide them in their actions. It sounds like this kid is angry, depressed and needing real help... how sad

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 8:25:52 AM)
This is one instance where I defer to an actual mother, she said it so much better than I could have.

missturbation -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 8:26:26 AM)
Ditto - much better put than i could have or did lol [:D]

mistoferin -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 8:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania PS. I am not one to usually blame the mother in most circumstances, but when I see someone call a half baked teenager all these bad things, and not even ask "What has the mother done about this angry kid" Well I tend to side with the person that has little life experience to guide them in their actions. It sounds like this kid is angry, depressed and needing real help... how sad I didn't see where you asked "What has the mother done about this angry kid" before you blamed her. Those details were not provided in the post and for all we know she may have done everything she possibly could. We don't know this kid has had a crap life or why he is angry or whether or not it has anything to do with his mother. I didn't see where the OP said the mother called him because she couldn't cope...maybe he was simply present when the incident occurred. Kids from great homes can sometimes come out screwed up. There is a point in adolescence where parental influence takes a back seat to peer pressure. When a kid is trying out his own "independence" and that sometimes leads him to make poor choices. Don't get me wrong, I think that an awful lot of the problems that occur with teenagers ARE a direct result of poor parenting...but I am not willing to blanketly accuse all parents of failing their children because of the actings out of their teenager.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 8:57:42 AM)
[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]

juliaoceania -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:00:40 AM)
I do not like seeing kids called names, my opinion. He called this child all sorts of things, mentioned the kid crying, talked about his lecturing, and it was very obvious that he has no respect for the kid. Personally speaking, it would be a cold day in hell that I would have some 46 year old man judging my child and calling him names try to intervene on MY behalf. My son and I are extremely close, my first and only loyalty is to him, and someone that had no respect for him, thought of his as a lazy ass, had no sympathy for his pain or that he had anger, would not get anywhere near my kid. Edited to add: This is possibly why my son has never menaced me even though he has anger problems as MOST teenage boys do. That rush of testosterone tends to make for short tempers, and teenage angst is nothing new. But you are right, it is on the OP that he was denigrating to the kid, his mother just allowed it.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:13:06 AM)
mistoferin Do you have children? If so, do you have teenaged children? Teenagers don't just "suddenly become bad" & if for some extreme reason they do... calling a friend to "set them straight" is a pathetic attempt to properly care for your child. You call the police. You contact medical professionals. You get therapy not just for the child but yourself included. You cannot confront aggression with aggression & expect a peaceful out come. Julia's post was pretty much dead on even with the minimal information provided. If you look around you see it every day. Parents who absentmindedly do minor things & never considering that their examples are influencing their children in big ways. I see people driving with their children in the car who make minor traffic violations. This is breaking the rules.... right? Yet if you think about it, we set rules up for our children & we expect them to mind these rules. What are we teaching these kids when they watch us break the rules? This is just one tiny example... I'm sure we could all list many.

mistoferin -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:20:04 AM)
I have a cousin who went off the deep end and acted out in horrendous ways when he hit puberty. To be honest, I don't think I can think of a case of a more obnoxious, out of control teen. I have to tell you that my Aunt and Uncle were some of the most responsible parents I have ever encountered. My cousin's life was a good one. They were very involved in all he did. Encouraged, supported, provided guidance and discipline. They were very open and loving. When all of this occurred my Aunt and Uncle nearly drove themselves crazy trying to get him help. They took him to therapy, read books, consulted all the experts they could. They were good, responsible parents who did everything within their power and tried all of the suggestions the experts offerred. My Aunt in particular, assumed alot of the guilt. Not that she had done anything wrong....but that she was staring at her child and thinking that somehow, somewhere she must have done something or failed to do something. My gosh, they even looked into whether or not birth trauma could play a role. My cousin is now a grown, productive member of society. If you ask him about that time in his life he will tell you that it had nothing to do with his parents and that he looks back on it with shame and guilt for what he put them through. He is also very thankful for the good, solid foundation they gave him for in his heart of hearts he knew what was right and wrong and when he chose to get himself together he had something to come back to. At the time though, he didn't see the value in things like rules and discipline. He now has his own children...boys....and his parenting style is not far from that of his own parents.

mistoferin -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:24:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion mistoferin Do you have children? If so, do you have teenaged children? Actually, yes I do. I have two wonderful adult boys who I am thankful did not give me much trouble. I'd like to think that is a result of how I parented...but I also realize that other factors weigh in. I have also worked with young people who did have problems and were acting out. Yes, I would attribute most of those cases to the environment in which they were raised. But there were also exceptions to that.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:28:51 AM)
I think this is pretty disgusting. Why would you think you have the right to go around slapping someone else's kid. You say he doesn't even know your last name. So, there is no relationship of consequence between you and the kid. Personally, you are still fucking up, and in my opinion the cops should have dragged you off to jail. As far as the mother goes, if she asked you to do this, then she is a super piss poor mother. So, she'd have to ask a practical stranger(To the kid) to rough up her kid and teach him a lesson. LOL. Regardless, you shouldn't be involved in teaching anyone anything from what I've read. People don't learn from people they don't respect. All you did was make him hate you, and more than likely if the mother asked you to do this, to hate his mother more. A rational approach would have been therapy after he hit his mother, or call the cops and let him face the consequences for his actions. Instead Some stranger that admittedly is an alcholic belittles the kid. Whatever. This is just stupid. You owe that kid an apology, and the kid might owe the mother an apology, depending on why this whole thing happened to begin with.

mistoferin -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 9:37:11 AM)
I would also like to add that I am in no way excusing the actions of the OP. I am commenting only because I don't believe that we have enough information to make any kind of judgements about the mother's parenting. We don't know that the mother called him in to take care of this or if the mother was even present or aware when he "handled" the situation. We don't know if the mother supported the son, for all we know she may have been the one to call in law enforcement. We don't know if she is in support of the OP's actions or not. Maybe this is something that the OP decided to take upon himself.

amaidiamond -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 10:53:11 AM)
Having read all of this, I don't think the OP is asking for judgement on what he did. He KNOWS what he did what was wrong, Seems if you take the whole of the post and not jsut the start that the OP is saying, I've done bad things, things I really regret, remember that whatever you do stays with you and you cant hide from the truth of your past. Just my 2c worth

Mercnbeth -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 11:10:58 AM)
quote: that he has no respect for the kid. "No respect for the kid" - Amazing, society has gotten to a point where it's assumed that a 250 pound 17 year old has been "disrespected" because he was confronted by a person defending his mother against a physical attack. His "I was nuts" description of himself in striking the person was accurate. Not because he defended the woman, but because he didn't call the police himself preemptively. "Smacked him around a bit", qualifies his "I was nuts" self assessment. One way respect never works. Lets see where the lack of respect could originate. Is it because we support lawbreakers by renaming them "undocumented workers" instead of "illegal aliens" or just plane "criminals"? Is it because positions of authority ranging from the local police to the President are called juvenile names? Can it be that when a school calls to discuss a behavior problem the knee jerk response is that the educator has it "out for" the student? Is it because instead of "don't do it" they hear "don't get caught"? Is it because the effort goes into preventing consequences for the offender instead of requiring a change of behavior? Does a juvenile deserve respect? Of course, but only in terms of the respect the juvenile extends to those providing their food/clothing/shelter/educational access. Striking the source of those provided services and goods voids that requirement, and should result in pragmatic response. In this case, the mother should have called the police. As bad as the actions of the OP were, the cause of them was disrespect shown by the 17 year old. He hit his mother. We now rationalize that he has a good and defensible reason for hitting his mother. Would a knife or gun used on her have the same justification? We focus on "no respect for the kid"? Wholly shit!

mistoferin -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 11:17:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amaidiamond Having read all of this, I don't think the OP is asking for judgement on what he did. He KNOWS what he did what was wrong, Seems if you take the whole of the post and not jsut the start that the OP is saying, I've done bad things, things I really regret, remember that whatever you do stays with you and you cant hide from the truth of your past. Just my 2c worth What???? The concept of putting a post on collarme without having people rush in with snap judgements? Why, surely you jest!!! [;)][;)][;)] Actually, you are exactly right. I don't think the OP was looking for judgement OR validation. I think that he wrote the post in a "House of the Rising Sun" kind of way....mother's tell your children, not to do what I have done...... Do I think there were other ways he could have handled it? Well, sure. I think he probably thinks so too.

slavejali -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 11:21:55 AM)
quote: if you can't undo it, do not do it. Good Advice...trouble is, it takes life experience most of the time to realise the wisdom of it. Re your chastisement of the boy who hit his mother. I'm going to be neutral on this one. There are cultures out there who deem it the responsibility of relatives and friends and the community to take chastisement of someone elses children up, it is not the job of the parents, and these cultures run very effectively, close knit etc(perhaps more close knit than our western culture). We grow up in the society we know and think "our way" is the right way, which isn't necessarily the truth, so I can't immediately jump to the moral high ground on issues like this.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 11:23:05 AM)
Just for the record... I never said anything against the OP. Could he or should he have handled it differently.... who can say. We weren't there. It really seems as though he was brought into something by this mother. It seems as though he was trying to be a friend & answer a call for help. The problem is answering a call for help should be more along the lines like... the car's broke down can you come by & give me a hand... this is fine. He was basically thrust into being completely responsible for getting this kid under control & he did so the best way he knew how. He isn't the child's parent so how should he know what was going on or for what reason. He responded based on his own ethics, she is a woman & shouldn't be hit by a fully grown male of considerable stature. I don't fault him... but hopefully he has learned another lesson in life. When it comes to family drama that is not your own.... stay out of it. No matter how good your intention is.... they have the blood connection & they will get past it.... you on the other hand. Well you are the stranger that is only known by a first name & will most likely end up being made into the heavy.

marieToo -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 11:47:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth As bad as the actions of the OP were, the cause of them was disrespect shown by the 17 year old. He hit his mother. We now rationalize that he has a good and defensible reason for hitting his mother. Would a knife or gun used on her have the same justification? We focus on "no respect for the kid"? The cause of the OP's action was his own lack of good judgement,which he clearly stated; not someone else's action. The OP, like the kid, is the only one responsible for the choice to hit another person. I agree there is no good reason to hit his mother, but who was supposed to have raised him to know that?

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