RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq

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MasterKalif -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/6/2006 9:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Form a "nationalsit" army? and just who is going to man this army? Not the people from the region...they hate...Hate each other. They will never work as a cohesive unit. Perhaps mercenaries with non muslim ties...good luck with that one...it is lost. It was never won. It was never even close. Erect your monument so the dead won't feel so used. Apologize for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's dead and wounded or don't; they never mattered anyway. And leave. Apologize to the 9/11 families as well as those killed in Oklahoma...It was a few crazed individuals there was really nothing that we could have done. Maybe we should have invaded Michigan and got those militia pricks. Coffee is brewing, read the morning paper,watch some t.v., piss on or fist a woman or two(yawn)...you'll feel better. Blame Mexicans crossing the border looking to make a piss poor wage for your problems...call them criminals. Put on re-runs of I Love Lucy,or the Cosby Show, remember a time when things were good. When white folks were not so scared, before they started blaming everything and everyone for the problems in their lives. Don't worry there's a football game this Sunday. Relax. Pour yourself a drink...God bless America! Feel better already, don't cha....atta boy. The war...wait "Batman Returns" is on...get back to you later. Out. D.G. p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers. domiguy, I think you were referring to me as I was the one with the idea of a nationalist army....by that I mean an army of Iraqis (mix of Christians, Sunnis, Shiites, atheists, Kurds, and encompassing all regions of Iraq), no particular "group" should be at the top, but rather act as a cohesive unit....Saddam almost had this in his army, however it was replaced by personal loyalty to him which demoralized and ended up destroying that army from the inside. It can be done...what will unite them is ending the chaos and lawlesness, as well as fighting for the idea of maintaining Iraq united. Yes it could lead to a dictatorship but at this stage, that would be a lucky bet compared to what exists now. I can't comment on the rest as Im not sure I follow.

NorthernGent -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 1:19:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Yep we all agree he is a turd....Most Americans don't care 'cause they are not the ones dying...They would gladly sacrifice their own...(children of other lessor folks) as well as the insignificant others to keep gas at $2.00 a gallon. How do we handle being force fed and daily fist fucked using only comet as a lubricant? Please! On a BDSM website? A country of subs....piss on us, fist us, have us all fuck a dog, nipple clamps draped across the country hanging from L.A. to N.Y. We are brain dead... and oh by the way, we are also an easily distracted lot...had something important more to say but a new episode of LOST is about to start...lost my train of thought..."Is it going to snow tomorrow?" "Oh my god!, A plane blew up killing all 247 passengers aboard...please pass the butter." "Got a man of the people says keep hope alive, got fuel to burn got roads to drive."--Niel Young-Rockin in the free world. Gone. D.G. p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers. In the West, we have better things to do than worry about people dying. Some of the shit on our television has to be seen to be believed and this same shit occupies the thoughts of Britons on a daily basis. Very few seem to be interested in the fact that thousands of people are dying and partially as a result of our Government's actions. Britain is morally bankrupt. Anyone with a brain cell knew the WMDs front was a pack of lies. Those who did care were firmly in the minority and couldn't do anything about it. The rest of the country were consumed in apathy or ignorance. Three years on and people still don't care and/or can't see past their petty racism. The solution to all of this, a change of foreign policy in the Middle East and this is easier said than done. The reason being, the US economy needs oil and (if the actions of the US Government are anything to go by) the majority of US people couldn't care less if the Middle East is effectively being raped and pillaged so I'm not expecting much pressure to be put on your Government - the same applies to ours. The issue is one of deep-rooted cultural and social failing and this cannot be undone at the click of a finger. Now, I know there'll be Americans and Britons reading this and it will be boiling their piss that someone has the audacity to challenge the notion of the greatest nations on earth. However, you are the problem. You're so indoctrinated that even when your Governments are busy exploiting humans/resources around the world you can't see it. You excuse it and lend support for their actions because these Governments have convinced you that you belong to the greatest nations on earth. You're so indoctrinated you refuse to see what is staring you in the face. There's nothing great about bulldozing a place and then handing out oil and construction contracts left, right and centre (providing you're a US multi-national). A good example is Bechtel - $2.3 billion over a 3 year period for repairing basic infrastructure such as sewerage systems. Now they're pulling out and the place is still a mess but they don't mind because they have their money and you don't mind because you belong to the greatest nation on earth.

toservez -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 8:01:50 AM)
Well after reading the papers and some news programs it is quite clear that Bush is not going to do anything with the report but let it collect dust. He had one comment about implementing some of the ideas but the report was very strongly worded that do a piece here and there would be worthless. The idiot President also mentioned how the report show how bi-partisin works that two sides can dissagree and still work together but the two sides in the group do not dissagree on what they reccomend. UGH!

candystripper -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 11:32:21 AM)
To contact the white house, send email to: comments "at" whitehouse.gov candystripper

NorthernGent -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 2:11:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toservez Well after reading the papers and some news programs it is quite clear that Bush is not going to do anything with the report but let it collect dust. He had one comment about implementing some of the ideas but the report was very strongly worded that do a piece here and there would be worthless. The idiot President also mentioned how the report show how bi-partisin works that two sides can dissagree and still work together but the two sides in the group do not dissagree on what they reccomend. UGH! toservez, change only occurs when there is sufficient public pressure. Until this happens our governments have no reason to do anything apart from continue to serve big business. Pressure will be exerted when the deaths of US soldiers reach a certain level and this tells the story of the problem

toservez -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 8:03:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent toservez, change only occurs when there is sufficient public pressure. Until this happens our governments have no reason to do anything apart from continue to serve big business. Pressure will be exerted when the deaths of US soldiers reach a certain level and this tells the story of the problem I agree with that in theory but unfortunately Bush is the exception that may prove the rule. He never going to run for anything again and has surrounded himself with what will go down as a historical amount of zealot yes men that I think most people here do not think he feels any pressure because all dissent of his beliefs and policies are spun as unpatriotic morally bankrupt left wing crazies.

Sinergy -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 8:14:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 What is there to "win" anyway? Duh. What is there to win is lots and lots of oil hidden under the desert sands so Americans can continue driving their SUVs. Not to mention the cargo ships that allow trade with China. I mentioned before that the name "Operation Iraqi Liberation" was changed when somebody pointed out to Monkeyboy that the acronym was OIL. Apparently, they didnt want people to think the entire invasion was about oil or anything. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

cloudboy -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 8:35:07 PM)
At this point its a LOST CAUSE. I just got finishing watching FRONTLINE's special on the US's deployment of private security forces in IRAQ and reliance on private contractors. The episode originally aired in 2005. Here are the salient points I gathered from watching the episode: 1. Americans are targets. 2. Americans live on bases separate and apart from the IRAQI populace. 3. The Americans have no clue who the enemy is. 4. The country is radically unsafe for Westerners. 5. There is no way to "win." 6. The Private Security Forces in IRAQ operate w/o oversight or accountability for their actions. Its really so sad and infuriating. America has been truly humiliated and humbled. IRAQ has be destabilized. Our credibility is in the toilet.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 8:40:30 PM)
You're so unpatriotic. I bet you support the terrorists. It's us or them, you know.

domiguy -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 9:02:58 PM)
You are so unpatriotic...I bet you do support the terrorists....It is us or them. I'm not a terrorist. Are you?...Probably not. So Lordandmaster, since it is us or them and most folks would hate to be labled as unpatriotic, please explain how to identify a terrorist. A particular haircut? Secret handshake? "I'm with Osama" t-shirt... Help me...help our troops. out. D.G. p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers

Lordandmaster -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 9:03:29 PM)
I was being sarcastic, you know. I guess you're not aware of my politics.

domiguy -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/7/2006 10:18:40 PM)
Apology...rush to be a smart ass....No I don't know your politics....No offense.....I did like the secret handshake bit (praising self for being clever). We are all aware of far to many folks who do not even have the ability to think outside the box or to question their own personal veiws or beliefs...rather new to this site...takes time to get a feel for who else participates...Definitely a rush to judgement...Probably will happen again in the future. out. D.G. p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers

meatcleaver -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/8/2006 12:09:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Anyone with a brain cell knew the WMDs front was a pack of lies. Those who did care were firmly in the minority and couldn't do anything about it. The rest of the country were consumed in apathy or ignorance. Three years on and people still don't care and/or can't see past their petty racism. Not true. The majority (according to opinion polls) didn't believe in WMD. Unfortunately the USA and Britain have effective dictatorships between elections. One of the reasons for German and French reluctance to climb on board with the USA and Britain was they have effective democracies between elections also. You are always so good at saying 'People this' and 'People that' but you are one of the 'people' too from where I stand. It is so easy to be sanctimonious and blame everyone else and pretend one is doing ones bit and carry on sharing the luxury afforded by government policy.

cloudboy -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/9/2006 2:24:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster You're so unpatriotic. I bet you support the terrorists. It's us or them, you know. Do you know how the FRONTLINE reporter covered things in IRAQ for his report? Well to travel from one place to another, he went out in a kevlar vest in a team of three armored SUVs with nine security guards. They sweated a trip to the airport. Cancelled a trip to a GE reconstruction project because it was too dangerous. There is no peace. There is no reconstruction. There is very little synergy between the American forces and the native IRAQIs. If you and I were going to travel in IRAQ, tho, I would recommend a beat up, dusy Lada to enable us to blend in. A Ford Explorer with tinted windows is just a dead giveaway. The mission over there has turned into a pointless sink hole. Only chickenhawks still support it. (GWB, Cheney, Rice, et. al.)

Lordandmaster -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/9/2006 2:48:50 PM)
It's all propaganda. The liberal media wants you to believe that Iraq is falling apart. Actually, the situation is quite secure. I know because I've spoken to soldiers who have just come back. They can't wait to go right back in!

KatyLied -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/9/2006 3:00:11 PM)
An alternative view: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8381356

NorthernGent -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/10/2006 5:27:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Anyone with a brain cell knew the WMDs front was a pack of lies. Those who did care were firmly in the minority and couldn't do anything about it. The rest of the country were consumed in apathy or ignorance. Three years on and people still don't care and/or can't see past their petty racism. Not true. The majority (according to opinion polls) didn't believe in WMD. Actually, the difference between Britain and the US was/is the majority of those Britons polled wanted United Nations backing for any military action. In terms of the belief in WMDs, there was little difference between the two countries and take it from someone who lives and works here, the majority of Britons do not care. You will be hard pushed to find a conversation on Iraq. You are always so good at saying 'People this' and 'People that' but you are one of the 'people' too from where I stand. It is so easy to be sanctimonious and blame everyone else and pretend one is doing ones bit and carry on sharing the luxury afforded by government policy. Off topic but worth a reply before getting back on topic. My credentials will stand up more than most when it comes to doing my bit in opposition to this current government's policies. There's no need to go into them here as I've nothing to prove to you. On the otherhand, you shipped out over to Holland some time ago and I'm struggling to understand what you could possibly be doing from over there. From where I'm standing, you have everything to prove. Maybe your above paragraph was subconsciously directed at yourself? Who knows. In truth, I'm not interested what you're personally doing although I have a feeling the answer is not a great deal.

NorthernGent -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/10/2006 5:34:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toservez quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent toservez, change only occurs when there is sufficient public pressure. Until this happens our governments have no reason to do anything apart from continue to serve big business. Pressure will be exerted when the deaths of US soldiers reach a certain level and this tells the story of the problem I agree with that in theory but unfortunately Bush is the exception that may prove the rule. He never going to run for anything again and has surrounded himself with what will go down as a historical amount of zealot yes men that I think most people here do not think he feels any pressure because all dissent of his beliefs and policies are spun as unpatriotic morally bankrupt left wing crazies. toservez, is Bush really an exception to the rule? Haven't we been here before with previous US regimes? Ultimately, politicians work for us. They're our servants and this means they only get away with what we allow them to get away with. For my money, the majority of people are comfortble with the situation i.e. economic prosperity in return for government discretion to do as they please. We elect them, they represent us, we get the governments we deserve. As stated, the problem is a deep-rooted social and cultural failing and there is no short term solution. In Britain, we've had a hand in invading countries for centuries. There is surely something seriously wrong with a people who accept this as a part of life.

meatcleaver -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/10/2006 6:30:03 AM)
Have you ever heard Blair spout when he was your age (I'm assuming you are the age in your profile)? You sound remarkably like him, even his politics. You too preach and that to me is a reason for not backing someone even if they appear to be preaching the truth. For me it indicatates someone who is dictatorial at heart. I left Britain simply because there was no work. I found that Britain wasn't that great and wasn't that open to new ideas but it was rather conservative on both left and right and PC pervades the country like a virus and stifles debate, which are some of the reasons I haven't gone back. Maybe the main reason I haven't gone back is that I have two daughters, neither which have British mothers or live in Britain. The other reason is I can earn significantly more money here than in Britain which is a good reason for staying put.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Panel Recommends Diplomacy & Pull Out in Iraq (12/10/2006 6:47:59 AM)
Since when does Diplomacy work with Non Negotiating terrorist who belive that all infidels should be dead? They demand that America should be converted to Islam or wiped off the earth and there's no middle ground that would satisfy them. The only table these radicals want to sit at is the one with explosives under it so they can blow up all the leaders and diplomatic negotiators. I bring a pen to sign and they bring a gun to shoot me. There's nothing to negotiate because the terrorist will never stop there conquest for power and the victory of the Great Jyhad.

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