Land of the Free?

Land of the Free? (Full Version)

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Chaingang -> Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 1:34:56 AM)
"Inside the $37 billion prison economy" The nation's 2 million inmates and their keepers are the ultimate captive market: a multibillion dollar economy bulging with business opportunity. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/12/01/8394995/index.htm?section=money_topstories Indeed, his Berlin, N.J., company is part of a massive and expanding $37 billion prison economy. There are more than 2 million inmates serving time in the United States, up from 744,000 in 1985. America has the world's highest incarceration rate, and the revolving door helps keep those prisons packed: A 2002 study by the Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 52 percent of released convicts were back in jail within three years. "All of these things are terrible, but they are good for business," says Martin Roenigk, CEO of CompuDyne (Charts), a security software and hardware provider to the corrections and homeland security markets. --- Appalling.

UtopianRanger -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 2:02:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang "Inside the $37 billion prison economy" The nation's 2 million inmates and their keepers are the ultimate captive market: a multibillion dollar economy bulging with business opportunity. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/12/01/8394995/index.htm?section=money_topstories Indeed, his Berlin, N.J., company is part of a massive and expanding $37 billion prison economy. There are more than 2 million inmates serving time in the United States, up from 744,000 in 1985. America has the world's highest incarceration rate, and the revolving door helps keep those prisons packed: A 2002 study by the Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics found that 52 percent of released convicts were back in jail within three years. "All of these things are terrible, but they are good for business," says Martin Roenigk, CEO of CompuDyne (Charts), a security software and hardware provider to the corrections and homeland security markets. --- Appalling. Yeah..... How long do you give it before they eventually classify some of us as ''enemies of the state''....and then catch and prosecute us for acts of hate speech and sedition[;)] . - R

Chaingang -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 2:50:42 AM)
...and the point being the intelligent, skilled and generally excellent workers we would make in the new slave colonies...er...prisons. Seriously, people - wake the fuck up!

meatcleaver -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 3:07:12 AM)
If the state only incarcerated people who were a danger to society, the prison population in Britain would be reduced by around 50%. My guess that figure would be similar in the US too. The whole 'prison is the solution' is as crazy as the drug laws, its irrational, it doesn't work and even when politicians are faced with the undeniable evidence their policies only make the situation worse, carry on irrationally pursuing the same policy saying their is no alternative. Me thinks the policy makers require electric shock treatment.

pahunkboy -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 11:17:53 AM)
if teh middle class is snapped out too much further - they will have to activate camps. they had some ready to be popuated-as last decmeber 14. ?tokey williams? was put to death. the rumour was riots across the us.

MasterKalif -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 12:18:32 PM)
while those figures are depressing....what to do? I mean you can't let criminals, murderers and thieves out because the prison population is growing. After all, the US has a pop. of about 300 million people....

JerseyKrissi72 -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 12:22:18 PM)
maybe if people would stop committing crimes there would be less people in jail lol...I say keep building more jails til people act like they got some sense..geesh

Chaingang -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 12:58:12 PM)
What you do is decriminalize non-violent behaviors that are now illegal. No one would suggest letting out violent criminals, but what about the many, many, many non-violent inmates? Legalize drugs and you can tax it, control it's quality, handle addiction like the medical crisis that it actually is, and empty out our prisons - all in one stroke. Eliminate three strikes laws and do away with the laws that make no sense - why imprison someone for life over possibly minor offenses? Let me give a recent example of absurd criminalized behavior: Tommy Chong recently did a short stint in federal prison because he was selectively prosecuted for selling glass art water pipes online. A quick google will reveal that there are dozens of such vendors and that there are legal uses for such a device. He did actual time for this supposed crime. What the fuck explains that?

Termyn8or -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 2:19:20 PM)
It was either a prison movie or in a county jail I heard the words "I know every muthafucker in here was framed". Years ago I took this as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. They get money for every prisoner they incarcerate, and if they have crime, they get money to help fight crime. Notice that "get money" appears twice in that sentence. So if the criminals are loose and the innocent are locked up, they get more money. They are subtle about it too. How do prosecutors and detectives work ? The detective decides in the first few minutes who did it and proceeds to build a case against that person, ignoring evidence pointing to other suspects, and anything that could exonerate their target. Not only ignoring it, illegally witholding it from discovery by the defense. Thing is, the crime is the lack of something and is hard to detect. It is explained away the this practice is the most efficent way to use your tax dollars. People are fooled because they don't know the result, real frameups of innocent people. Let me ask you this, what is the purpose of a jury ? The jury has the power to acquit even if all the elements of the "crime" are there. The reason is that they are there as a stopgap between the court and the defendant. However they are not told this. They put a guy in jail for importing lobsters. This was totally legit, taxpaying law abiding company. Well the packaging and some of the lobsters did not conform to standards. I want to know how any jury in this country could convict. This is ridiculous. There's another case where a gun dealer shipped a firearm to Mexico. This is not always illegal, which surprised me. This particular firearm was illegal there though. This guy is a US citizen, yet they extradited him to Mexico. I have said it before, if you look at what they do long enough you see that their motives are not pure as the driven snow. It appears that it is not really the Muslims that hate the American way of life, it is the politicians. . I mean, if the politicians were loyal to us, why would they do such things ? Even if they were not all that loyal why can't they act in our best interests. Every thing they do seems worst than the last. Why. I would very much like someone to refute my conclusions. Perhaps I can regain a couple iota of my optimism. I doubt that you do it though. So we go on with our lives and hope their snare doesn't catch us, and that we never get into the crosshairs so to speak. There are enough of us that the odds aren't too bad. Just like when they tell you that a crime happens every so many seconds. Do the math, there are 300 million people. There are 3600 seconds in every hour. So, yes, you can actually leave your home. Without putting it in perspective they give a raw figure like that and bilk us for more money for police etc. Free countries don't make rich people enough money. It all adds up. What say you ? T

juliaoceania -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 8:00:24 PM)
It seems to me that this type of industry (think Wackenhut[:'(]) shows no signs of being on the downturn. We as a society have a very punitive attitude toward each other in my opinion. The reason the prisons are so full is the war on drugs though, which is as silly as prohibition was if you ask me.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 8:16:59 PM)
Two words. Death Penalty

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 8:50:24 PM)
I don't know anyone who went to jail that wasn't guilty of a crime, though admittedly I'm sure there are. But that being said alot of people go to jail for crimes that shouldn't even be crimes. My view on prison is a person can either be treated or not. If they can be treated they shouldn't be in jail at all, if they can't be treated and deemed a sociopath or compulsive in their criminal behaviour then the death penalty seems appropriate. Prisons in my view should only be holding pens while evaluation of the persons fate will be. Prison is cruel and unusual punishment in my view beyond death. But I think very few people aren't able to be treated, and those that are beyond hope or refuse to change their violent ways should be eliminated. LOL, doubt that's popular.

Termyn8or -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 9:32:27 PM)
Need, I agree. With a few exceptions. Your statement basically says that they have a right to define what a crime is, and what it is not. For example, some time ago in Texas, a mere gram of pot would net you five years. Sandra day O'Conner ruled based on world opinion, and stated such. I say when those people pay her, then do that. Until then you are supposed to be here for us. I fully agree that we need executions, but we need the proper criteria with which to administer these executions. Insanity and or mental retardation should not be an exception. Thing is public opinion would never support it. The real problem is in deciding who to get rid of. Want the job ? In my view, any viable and fair way is to judge actions. You don't go into schools and if the kid doesn't pass the test he gets dragged away and executed. I mean the person's own actions are judged. Actions against others, harm done. Drug possesion, tax evasion, doing something without license, all these are excluded. The harmful things only. I dunno, I really don't even want the job of figuring out the criteria. Yes, eugenics via execution, euthenasia and sterilization. I am all for it, but we don't have anyone who could make these decisions. Anyone who wants to, you don't want them to, and those who don't want to won't want to. If someone could indeed make the right decisions in this matter we would have a utopia soon. But it just is not going to happen. Welcome to life. T

subfever -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/7/2006 10:51:50 PM)
quote: What say you ? What say me? I say that the nonsense of building bigger and better prisons is just another example of addressing the symptom instead of the cause.

Chaingang -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 4:01:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou I don't know anyone who went to jail that wasn't guilty of a crime... Please inform yourself: http://www.innocenceproject.org/

seeksfemslave -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 4:23:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang What you do is decriminalize non-violent behaviors that are now illegal. After having picked myself up off the floor having read the above I have decided to break into Chainging's property, in a non violent way, steal anything of value and then say, dont criminalise me I'm non violent I am.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 8:05:55 AM)
quote: What you do is decriminalize non-violent behaviors that are now illegal. Chain, I'm surprised, based upon your other writings, that you are against the prosecution the perpetrators of Enron. Political corruption would also be decriminalized, taking bribes from corporations or any "white collar" crime is "non-violent". What gives? The drug prosecutions is our generation's version of 'Prohibition'. They can't legalize and tax pot because just about everyone can grow it in their homes. In CA the local governments issue a "license" enabling you to grow and possess a considerable amount of immature product as well as the the finished product. It would be impossible for any taxation. A primary reason it's still federally illegal.

LotusSong -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 8:25:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72 maybe if people would stop committing crimes there would be less people in jail lol...I say keep building more jails til people act like they got some sense..geesh You mean in a generation where the tune of the day is "It's all good. You just don't understand me. Don't judge me, you don't know me. I'm just expressing myself. It's my culture" Nobody is being taught "sense" these days.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 11:07:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chaingang quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou I don't know anyone who went to jail that wasn't guilty of a crime... Please inform yourself: http://www.innocenceproject.org/ Please quote the whole sentence before telling me to inform myself. It read. "I don't know anyone who went to jail that wasn't guilty of a crime, though admittedly I'm sure there are." Reading that link you provided wouldn't mean I knew the person that said they were innocent. I only know people in "real life" and everyone I've actually known(not read about in an article), who has went to jail has technically commited the crime. And even then I said I'm sure they are out there. Of course I've watched shows and read articles about people that were later released because they were innocent, I still don't know anyone that was.

Chaingang -> RE: Land of the Free? (12/8/2006 1:17:36 PM)
My apologies. I meant non-violent, victim-less crimes: drugs, prostitution, consensual statutory rape, etc. There's lots of stuff on the books that is 100% bullshit purely intended to increase the Law Enforcement Growth Industry. The point of the innocence project is that many people are found guilty of crimes on what amounts to mere suspicion and circumstantial evidence. And DNA evidence exonerates them by excluding them as possible perpetrators of the crimes of which they have been convicted. The record of this kind of thing is pretty bad. The worst of it is that the real criminal is obviously still out there thanks to the ineptitude of the police.

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