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Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 10:57:07 AM

whisperedsighs

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The following below was posted in another thread on humiliation and I didn't want to hijack the thread.

quote:

I separate humiliation from degradation in this way...degradation is applying the same tactics as humiliation only at a deeper and crueler level. For me...and this is for me and whoever I would be with only...I differentiate the two by clarifying that degradation is a bad form of humiliation that does not make the submissive feel sexually hot or mentally stimulated but rather, makes her feel that she is less than she is...it calls up aspects of things that are in no way related to play or submission to controlled domination but rather hurt and controlling domineering; a way of pulling all safe footing out from beneath her.

My question then is, in regards to degradation.....What kind of aftercare do you use to put the footing back under the girl? How often is in your experience or anyone else's who does this, does this trigger the girl into a bad head space? For submissives who have experienced it, what is the head space like?

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oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:01:08 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
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From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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quote:

My question then is, in regards to degradation.....What kind of aftercare do you use to put the footing back under the girl? How often is in your experience or anyone else's who does this, does this trigger the girl into a bad head space? For submissives who have experienced it, what is the head space like?

Master does not use any kind of aftercare to put the 'footing' back under his property's feet; nor should he have to. ( this is just my own personal opinion though

) All I need to remember is that he would never damage his property permanantly.

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Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:02:33 AM

tade

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From: Tampa Bay, Florida
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Hugs and cuddles always work for us...

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(in reply to Kalira)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:03:14 AM

SusanofO

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To me, it's all pretty subjective as far as what is what is not just "mere" humiliation, and heas delved into the "degrading" areas...But - to me, Degradation is a hyped up form of Humiliation. It's Humiliation on steroids: Much more "hard-core" and demeaning. Aftercare?: Buy me a condo, or help me start my own home-based business (just kidding, he). Hugs for days on end, maybe. I am a big Humiliation fan. Degradation? Not so much...

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 11:23:15 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:07:52 AM

SusanofO

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whisperedsighs: Good point. Hard to do, since it really can screw with the whole "trust" thing. That's one reason I find it just a little too "edgy" for me.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 11:08:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 5

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:15:22 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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I do not suffer from bad head space when being degraded. Like all other types of play in these relationships hugs and cuddlling for somethings and somethings nothing is actually preferred as the intense feeling is so wonderful that I do not want it to be artificially broken. There are many things where all the enjoyment is being left alone thinking about what just happen, but again I am never been one to think less of my Master or think my Master thinks less of me by how we play.

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I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to SusanofO)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:18:26 AM

drawntothedark

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From: Arkansas
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I genrally do not need after care at all. I don't know......I just always seem to go back all right without it.

(in reply to toservez)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 11:21:59 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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degradation is something my Master feels i need every so often, so i am subjected to it on a fairly regular basis. much more so than humiliation, which would be difficult in my case as there's very little i find humiliating, especially if i know i'm serving someone.
degradation is never about any sort of "play" for us, it's real, harsh, cruel. afterwards i'm usually "shell shocked" for a bit, and sometimes it's even triggered my depression and i've gone into some very deep long-lasting spells. so in that sense, i guess it always puts me into a "bad head space". as for aftercare, sometimes he may wash and massage my body, if i was physically used, and always he reminds me that he loves me and that is not EVER going to be without me. but none of it is to erase what went on previously...those are lessons he does not wish me to forget.

(in reply to toservez)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 12:09:46 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperedsighs
My question then is, in regards to degradation.....What kind of aftercare do you use to put the footing back under the girl? How often is in your experience or anyone else's who does this, does this trigger the girl into a bad head space? For submissives who have experienced it, what is the head space like?

Aftercare- totally depends on the person and the play. Sometimes the best thing is to leave them alone and ignore them. Sometimes the best thing is to act like nothing happened. Sometimes the best thing is to be snuggly with them.

ANYTHING can trigger a bad headspace- even a basic flogging.

For me the headspace is like being very small.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 9

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 1:05:39 PM

SusanofO

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One example:
Humiliation: Asking me to lick and kiss your feet, and "grading my "performance" (hearing "good girl!, that's just the way I like it" is always nice. I have a "thing" for feet, and some other body parts as well).

Degradation: Kicking my face while I'm doing it, and even lauging about it, especially if other people are in the room.

Knowing the disctinction between the two, in terms of what one's partner can tolerate: Priceless.

But, it's really a subjective distinction as to what is "bad" humiliation or "degrading", and a very personal thing between two (or more) people, I think.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 1:19:05 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 10

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 1:20:18 PM

whisperedsighs

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Joined: 11/12/2006
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Interesting input so far. I am wondering how the head space for degradation is different from humiliation for those of you who do both?

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 11

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 1:23:39 PM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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I don't "do both", but have experienced both. If I feel Degraded, I feel 1) Terribly betrayed, and "used" in a bad way. It can destroy any trust I've built with someone. It can make me want to curl up and die, or run out of the room (or go get a gun. Seriously).

If I feel Humiliated (in a good way), I feel like I've really pleased someone, and want to please them more and more. It makes me feel warm and safe, protected, and more "bonded" to someone.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 1:27:13 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 12

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 1:33:39 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
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If the play is going to knock out their feet then the goal should be to have something other than their feet supporting them before hand.
I go back to my person as a building annalogy here
If you are going to knock out a load bearing wall then you have to, ahead of that, build in support that will shift the load from what you are knocking out to something you will leave standing. Otherwise the entire building collapses and you have to start from scratch.

So you either (A) stay away from core self image values, or (B) you ahead of time or while working them you add support in to the part you are wanting to replace that core value.

If their core value is appearance and you are going to degrade them about that then you reinforce intelligence, compassion and inner strength to carry the extra load.

Aftercare then would be about continueing to reinforce the new values you want to build on.

< Message edited by Archer -- 12/8/2006 1:34:54 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 13

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 2:40:44 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperedsighs

The following below was posted in another thread on humiliation and I didn't want to hijack the thread.

quote:

I separate humiliation from degradation in this way...degradation is applying the same tactics as humiliation only at a deeper and crueler level. For me...and this is for me and whoever I would be with only...I differentiate the two by clarifying that degradation is a bad form of humiliation that does not make the submissive feel sexually hot or mentally stimulated but rather, makes her feel that she is less than she is...it calls up aspects of things that are in no way related to play or submission to controlled domination but rather hurt and controlling domineering; a way of pulling all safe footing out from beneath her.

My question then is, in regards to degradation.....What kind of aftercare do you use to put the footing back under the girl? How often is in your experience or anyone else's who does this, does this trigger the girl into a bad head space? For submissives who have experienced it, what is the head space like?

I'm not into degradation at all.
Humiliation can be nice on occaision though.
If I owned a slave I just wouldn't want to subject her to degradation.

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

Post #: 14

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 3:02:10 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
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I don't do degredation. To me, it's a form of abuse. I know that not everyone here agrees with that, but that's just the way I see it. *shrugs* As for humiliation... that depends on my partner at the time - there can be a very fine line between humiliation & degredation.

Regarding aftercare... again, it depends on the person. I've played with subs who need someone to cuddle and snuggle with them for the rest of the night, while others are fine with a quick hug and a good-night-I'll-call-tomorrow-if-I-can.

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 3:35:54 PM

Grlwithboy

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Joined: 2/8/2005
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I do both of these and I gravitate toward seasoned players because I find that these slaves' notions of coming down and piecing together usually involves kissing my boot in *thanks for the opportunity* and assisting me to clean, talking quietly and perhaps a hug of mutual reassurance.

I do not enjoy prolonged aftercare which I feel manipulated into. When things go wrong, I am nurturing, attentive, on target with my caretaking - but when things go *right* I expect to be as appreciated as I appreciate.

I don't do degradation play with people who are not prepared for it mentally and who don't seek it, who aren't able to articulate a need for it to me in advance of the play that makes a lot of sense to me - sometimes reputation "oh yeah, he's coming at it from a good place" from a trusted third party has been enough info. I've never *knock wood* had a serious unplanned meltdown on my hands (some people want to melt down and deal with their stuff and be allowed to do that - I've got the internal fortitude to allow that to happen if I know where they're coming from.)

I have a lot of barometers for when I feel comfortable with a degradation fan and when I don't, it'd take a lot of bandwidth to hit 'em all.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 12/8/2006 3:38:30 PM >

(in reply to Mikal)

Post #: 16

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 3:56:56 PM

SusanofO

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Well, if someone is going to take the time to do that, I might be able to handle whatever they consider "Degradation." It seems less like callous dis-regard, and mopre like "re-conditioning" w/some concen for the submissive or slave's welfare, that way.

I really hate name-calling in general, though. One time I got "punished" really pretty hard (for me) because I just hate the word "whore". I got called a "whore" and I turned around and said "I'm not the whore, here, you might be, though...", and that did not go over well at all. "Suggestions" about how to improve some action or aspect of "service", are another thing altogether - and I think that can be emotionally rewarding - if I am "corrected" until I get following someone's "instructions" down "just right."

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/8/2006 4:14:49 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 17

RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 5:25:15 PM

Tikkiee

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Joined: 4/6/2006
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I detest degradation; however, Master uses it on occassion, along with humiliation. After care consists of nothing more than a smile from him, a pat on the cheek, and a 'I love you pet". We don't hug, we don't cuddle, we don't snuggle...he just lets me know that he loves me and thats it.

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~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to whisperedsighs)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 5:42:19 PM

HollyS

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Joined: 1/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikal

I don't do degredation. To me, it's a form of abuse. I know that not everyone here agrees with that, but that's just the way I see it. *shrugs* As for humiliation... that depends on my partner at the time - there can be a very fine line between humiliation & degredation.

Unlike many here, I consider humilation and degradation equivilant. They both involve an attack on a person's core identity; those things that a person feels make them who they are. I know what those things are for me, and that they may not be the same for everyone else. Examples for me would be things like "You're a horrible mom" or "God are you a stupid cunt" or "You're a pathetic excuse for a sub..." It would be very hard for me to move beyond hearing such things from one who claimed to care for me.

I do distinguish humiliation/degradation from embarassment, though, which is temporary and usually associated with a specific action. I can handle being embarassed -- everyone is at some point in his/her life. So things like being only partially clothed at a public party embarass me, but the feeling is associated with the situation rather than how I see myself. And it isn't permanent.

Humilation/degradation is also very different from objectification, which I do like sometimes. As LA said in another thread, it can be peaceful and calming to simply serve as an object for awhile, whether as a footrest or table or fucktoy. Plus, there's the aspect of pleasing by serving a specific purpose and, as with embarassment, the effect is temporary -- I'm not an object forever.

Each of these may resonate differently for other people - I don't dispute that what may be embarassing for one person may be humiliating for another. But I think it's important to draw some distinctions between things that mess with one's core values/identity and things that make one feel self-conscious or overexposed. The difference can have an enormous impact on trust within a relationship.

~Holly

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I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to Mikal)

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RE: Degradation what's it like, what after care? - 12/8/2006 5:54:12 PM

MmakeMme

Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If the play is going to knock out their feet then the goal should be to have something other than their feet supporting them before hand.
I go back to my person as a building annalogy here
If you are going to knock out a load bearing wall then you have to, ahead of that, build in support that will shift the load from what you are knocking out to something you will leave standing. Otherwise the entire building collapses and you have to start from scratch.

So you either (A) stay away from core self image values, or (B) you ahead of time or while working them you add support in to the part you are wanting to replace that core value.

If their core value is appearance and you are going to degrade them about that then you reinforce intelligence, compassion and inner strength to carry the extra load.

Aftercare then would be about continueing to reinforce the new values you want to build on.

Awesome, Archer. ~smiling~

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 20

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