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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:07:06 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Anyways to sum it up. "In my mind" (lol)....its wonderful to point your mind in a positive direction, its not so wonderful to use the mind to "manifest the desires of your ego".



And how does one separate the ego for the rest? Is life about being a servant for everyone else or is it about self realization of dreams and goals. Not all people have the same heart felt desires, and I would disagree with the world being in chaos because people are manifesting their desires. I believe that the universe does not know the difference between a thought that causes us angst or a thought that causes us joy. If you look at your thoughts as a creative force then the creativity that you are using is to draw in the things you do not want in this life... afraid of being in debt and think about it a lot? Debt will find you. Worry about your healthy a lot, you will not be well on some level. Our fears are what control us if you ask me, not our heartfelt ego driven desires. At the root of all negativity I believe you will find a fear lurking there, pettiness, anger, hatred, ignorance are all rooted in fear.

If we did away with the fear and concentrated on the good that comes our way we would be able to manifest more good. I have been trying to do this for years, but alas I am a work in progress. I think that if people concentrated on a positive challenge in their world, did away with the negativity of their fears the world would become more abundant.

I wish we could perform an experiment and find out

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:09:26 AM   
daddysprop247


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From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I watched this great video on how we can use visualization and positive thinking in order to call what we want into existence. In other words it was about how we are all creators of our universe and everything in our lives, either good or bad. I was wondering what others think of this concept. It was an awesome video, put on by mainstream folks, and I am going to put a link in for it, but be warned.. it does cost $4.95, it was well worth it to me, but others may not want to buy it...

Still the concepts are things that most of us are familiar with, and that major religious systems of the world have touched on. I thought it would make a wonderful discussion, because I think that even atheists would acknowledge that our thoughts have intense power, and that since we are energy, and energy never dies but only changes, that this has some merit when looking at why prayer works, why psychic phenomena exists, and how we create our world.

Negative energy attracts negative things, positive energy attracts positive things... what do you all think?

(the link to the video is www.thesecret.tv )



while i think this philosophy holds true for some of the people, most of the time, i don't think it holds true for all of the people, all of the time. i have an acquaintance who strongly believes in this..."you get back what you put out"....he believes that negative people create negative energy in their lives and therefore negative things consistently happen to them, while positive people create positive energy, blah blah etc. as a very positive person, with a mostly good life and no significant traumas, to him the theory holds true. but what about all of the good, positive people who lead whole lives of endless pain, suffering, and tragedy? what about the innocent abused 7 yr old who prays with her whole hearted to a God she still believed in at that time, to please stop the bad man from hurting her? because she gave up hope after another couple of years of torture and abuse and her prayers changed to "just please God let me die tonight", therefore i suppose creating "negative energy", she was to blame for the years of abuse that continued??

sorry but i just can't buy that philosophy as a universal truth, tho i won't deny it seems to be true for some.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:13:34 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		I most definitely think positive begets positive. There is a step in recovery that calls for acceptance (of self, of others, of circumstance) which is the same thing with a different name. It is amazing to watch life unfold in vastly more positive ways when one gets to that point.

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:22:11 AM   
slavejali


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quote:

Our fears are what control us if you ask me,


All fears are born from the perception of separation and division. The perception of separation and division is ego. So the two go hand in hand.

So the "need" to "manifest" comes from a perception of separation and division, which is ego. Whether that be a perception of a "good" or "bad" manifestation, the need to "do it" is in error because its coming from a perception of separation and division...ugh this may be getting way too deep its 4am here.

In my mind we are talking two concepts here.

1. That directing our minds in a positive direction is a wonderful thing and can provoke beneficial changes (which I agree with, but most of the changes are inside ourselves..which will have an impact on the way we percieve the world around us, which is always a good thing)

2. The power of manifestation in a worldly sense....(I don't see that as such a great or desirable thing.)

quote:

I wish we could perform an experiment and find out


Yeah would be a most excellent experiment.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:34:59 AM   
daddysprop247


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's one of those feel-good pop-psycho sayings that people like to repeat, but I've never understood what it's supposed to mean.  I think I'm a superhero with the power to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Shazaam!

Didn't work.


Lordandmaster, didn't you see Peter Pan?? if you really REALLY and truly believed, way way deep down, it would work. you didn't believe.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:49:00 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Guilty as charged--I didn't truly believe.

Those who truly believe end up in the emergency room, however.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 10:48:08 AM   
gypsygrl


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From: new york state
Status: offline 		I once took a quiz on AOL designed to separate the optimists from the pessimists.  When I was done, it told me I lived in a state of denial and should take off the rose colored glasses because, well, life can't be THAT good.

I dunno.  Objectivly, I know my life kind of sucks, and things could be better, but most days, I look around and feel blessed.  Its not something I have to work at.  Its just a feeling that comes over me, like I have so much to be grateful for and have been truly lucky.  

I doubt my basic attitude has much impact on what happens to me because its hard for me to imagine the universe being so egocentrically designed.  But, then again, so long as I feel so lucky, its pretty much the same as being lucky, no?



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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 11:10:52 AM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Isn't this what secularists/athiests and psychologists refer to as "magical thinking"?   Personally I have seen some evidence, Positive outlooks seem to bring positive results, and Negative sems to bring negative.   But does that mean all the slaves brought to America or everyone in the WTC on 911, had bad mental attitudes and brought it on themselves?  IF so did they deserve it?  Doesn't this also open the rationalisation that if you harm someone else in your attempt to manifest your desires they deserved it?

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 12:50:20 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I once took a quiz on AOL designed to separate the optimists from the pessimists.  When I was done, it told me I lived in a state of denial and should take off the rose colored glasses because, well, life can't be THAT good.



There was a psychological experiment with optimists and pessimists. People took a questionaire to see if they had an optimistic or pessimistic outlook and then set tests in the form of puzzles to do. Some puzzles could be solved and some couldn't. On the tests that couldn't be solved the pessimists soon gave up while the optimists refused to give up and kept trying to find the solution. When questioned later, the optimists didn't say the puzzles that couldn't be solved were impossible to do but saw their own inability to solve the puzzle as the problem and thought if they tried to solve the puzzle long enough they would find a sloution. The pessimists gave in quickly and some pessimists gave up on puzzles that could be solved because they thought they couldn't be.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 1:06:21 PM   
SusanofO


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Status: offline 		I believe that's true (the Ops initial thoughts). Completely. On personality tests, I've often been classified as a "realist" and could use more doses of optimism at times (although I tend to be optimistic in the sense that I think almost every problem has at least 3 possible solutions, it's just they may not be easy ones or attractive ones, sometimes). Because I know this works - I've seen it happen with other people when they change their "attitude" about whatever it is they want to change in their life, etc.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/9/2006 1:13:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 2:13:17 PM   
cloudboy


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GWB's "positive thinking" in the WHITE HOUSE hasn't helped his cause in the IRAQ war.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 2:35:08 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't know if you were replying to me, luckydog1, or just doing a fast reply, but I agree that the Norman Vincent Pealeish "Power of Positive Thinking" stuff is basically magical thinking.  The universe I live in is heliocentric and not ego centric.  Things don't revolve around me nor do things respond to my thoughts about them.

But, I'm still a basically happy person even though a lot of bad stuff has happened to me and to people around me.  The way I see it, I am not soley a product of what has happened to me, and my environment does not respond immediately to my thoughts about it.  "I," as a psychological entity, am distinct from "my world." 

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 2:44:57 PM   
gypsygrl


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Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Interesting.  It reminds me of something I read once that people who blame themselves for bad stuff are more likely to overcome it than people who blame circumstance or their environment.  Also, some argue that low self esteem is positively related to achievement in educational settings.  

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 6:33:16 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Interesting.  It reminds me of something I read once that people who blame themselves for bad stuff are more likely to overcome it than people who blame circumstance or their environment.  Also, some argue that low self esteem is positively related to achievement in educational settings.  


I have never heard of this, it would be interesting to see the methodology of this research. It is the opposite of my life experiences.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 9:50:22 PM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline 		Well, I'm actually a guy who has for long been in disgust of pma and those who purported it. regarding such theories with suspicion. However, after watching the vid, it made me aware of something i hadn't considered, namely that the power of attraction doesnt care if we want it of fear it, but if its always at the central focus of our minds eye, it will come either way...
Since my life has taken a turn for the worse here of late, behind a lot of negative fear and worry based thoughts, this really made sense and gave me insight i needed at a time when it just seemed like my luck had run out. If what this video teaches is true, luck had nothing to do with it....it was me.
Thanks again juliaoceana.


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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 10:00:53 PM   
MasterNdorei


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Status: offline 		i could not watch the trailer... both times i attempted it gave me the hard boot... all the way to my desktop. Ouch.

Master's dorei

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 10:12:15 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I don't know if you were replying to me, luckydog1, or just doing a fast reply, but I agree that the Norman Vincent Pealeish "Power of Positive Thinking" stuff is basically magical thinking.  The universe I live in is heliocentric and not ego centric.  Things don't revolve around me nor do things respond to my thoughts about them.


It is ironic that science is beginning to measure the effectiveness of prayer. It is also ironic that someone given a placebo will heal because they "think" it so.

I understand your sentiment, but at the same time I do not agree with it, and not everyone in the psychological community does either. Take Carl Jung for instance, and the scarab.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to gypsygrl)
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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/9/2006 10:17:44 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdartist

Well, I'm actually a guy who has for long been in disgust of pma and those who purported it. regarding such theories with suspicion. However, after watching the vid, it made me aware of something i hadn't considered, namely that the power of attraction doesnt care if we want it of fear it, but if its always at the central focus of our minds eye, it will come either way...
Since my life has taken a turn for the worse here of late, behind a lot of negative fear and worry based thoughts, this really made sense and gave me insight i needed at a time when it just seemed like my luck had run out. If what this video teaches is true, luck had nothing to do with it....it was me.
Thanks again juliaoceana.



That is a hard concept to own inside of yourself, I am glad you got something positive out of watching it....

I have had amazing things happen by thinking them into existence, because one must think about something in order to dedicate themselves to achieving it, but I have also had the opposite experience, and as Sinergy said in an earlier post, it was partially because I was growing mentally lazy, or overwhelmed with all I had to think about. Interesting isn't it?

And for the rest that are resistant to this, ridicule those of us who try to be optimistic about things, well, there is being an ostrich, and then there is being care worn, aging oneself prematurely through stress, and basically not enjoying this trip we call life... there has to be some middle ground somewhere. I hardly see myself as wantonly ignorant about things, but I have learned the hard way, to let harsh realities beat me does me nor anyone else any good...

Peace and good luck to everyone!

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/9/2006 10:18:17 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mgdartist)
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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/10/2006 1:18:14 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Just a general comment...I believe that at the deepest level within us it is very very difficult to change our basic attitudes, be they +ve or -ve. I dont say impossible, but it takes time and a lot of self awareness/analysis. We have the time but many simply seem incapable of "looking inwards" and hence will never get to grips with any problems/failures.

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RE: Positive Thinking - 12/10/2006 1:28:22 AM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline 		Thanks for your ever optomistic insightfulness.
I suppose we can't have dour, unhappy people running around thinking they can become happy and content with themselves and their lives all willy-nilly can we?

lol


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