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The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:09:42 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
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I have been reading through various threads this last week, which always gets me thinking and wondering about the mind of the Master, and how he (or she) handles certain things.

My question is about the early stages of the relationship, when you are "training" your submissive/slave, and the two of you are discussing, negotiating and getting to know each other. Let's see if I can explain and ask this in a way that makes sense. How much do you choose to share about yourself, your kinks, desires etc.... ? And are there things that you choose to keep to yourself that could be used for a mind fuck at some point?

Example: You know your sub/slave is straight and/or is only interested in a monogamous relationship. You, the Master have no real desire to share them, but you push the issue, getting them to agree to do whatever it takes to make you happy. So even though you have no plans to share them or have them play with someone of the same sex, would you make them believe that it's a possibility just to fuck with them?

So, are there things you choose not to be so open about early on, in order to gain the upper hand, so to speak?
I hope this makes sense..... as so many recent threads have got me seriously curious.

Or is this one of those secret Dominant codes ya can't discuss with us submissives/slaves?

LOL!

Post #: 1

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:19:37 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
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Hmmm, I can only answer from the perspective of a slave.

Master and I discussed just about everything the first day we started talking. We emailed for about 2 hours with each, moved to IM for about 3 hours, and then talked on the phone for more than 3 hours. The following day was pretty much the same minus the emails.

We talked about our kinks; we talked about our relationship wants and needs; we talked about our families; we talked about our hobbies. We covered every subject that was possible to cover in less than 3 days. At this time, Master had a trip planned to Canada, in which he was gone for almost 2 weeks; in that time, he told me to think real hard about whether or not I wanted to pursue a relationship with him; and that he planned to use the time away to do the same.

There are some things that we discussed early on that Master often brings up in an effort to 'mind fuck' me, I will say that he is very good at it too lol. However, I would not have wanted to hold back information just in an effort to keep him from using it at a later date. It somehow seems dishonest to me; but that is just my feelings about it. Since I was very well informed of the kind of relationship we would have; I saw no reason not to discuss EVERYTHING that there was to discuss; kink wise, vanilla wise, and relationship wise.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 2

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:21:26 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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My own relationships have nothing to do with screwing with my partner's mind, or gaining the upper hand with information I can use to my advantage.

I like her, she likes me. I desire that she serve, and she desires to serve. I desire to control, and she desires to be controlled. No need to make it any more complicated for that.

To me, all the rest seems like role play and scening (not that role play and scening are not enjoyable).

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 3

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:36:07 PM

Voltare

Posts: 841
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From: Santiago, Chile
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Well, now, to be fair, that's a tactic I've used in the past.

For us, it's never really an issue of if I would do something that I know she doesn't like - but simply a reminder of her position. I doubt very much she would enjoy being used by some strange man - but the 'mind fuck' as she calls it is pretty exciting for her.

Obviously, you have to be able to trust the person in question. She knows what I like and don't, and sharing doesn't rank high at all on my laundry list of things to do. That allows us to enjoy the fantasy of the threat, without any of the nasty side effects.

As for your Dom, that's a harder question. Do you believe he might want to force you to be with someone else? If he did, would you still want a relationship with him? If not, does he know this?

Another way of seeing it might be how you'd feel if he cashed in his life savings, mortgaged his house, and bought a Porsche? Would you be angry and want to leave? Would you think it's his right? Would you feel betrayed? Could you live with it? Exactly how far do you wish to follow before you're willing to tell him 'no further?' It doesn't matter if we know or not - it matters if HE knows.

Expect that he will probably, at some point in your relationship, do something to or with you that you're neither prepared for, nor happy about. But make sure you let him know how you feel.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 4

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:41:13 PM

desoutter

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/21/2005
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My relationships are my relationships...
They just do not work without - honesty...
Are there things I do not reveal?
- that was a great dinner! - you look great in that outfit! - of course I would love to meet your family! = all lies...

As with any relationship - its only as strong as the communication, honesty and so forth... yada yada...
desoutter

_____________________________

When the going gets weird... the weird turn pro.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 5

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 5:48:03 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
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Thank you Voltare, that makes sense.

This is really just a curiosity thing for me, but I did use two of my limits as examples. Yea, I was one of those kids that wanted to know how everything worked. LOL!

Reading the boards regularly for the last 5 weeks, I've been fascinated by the variety of personalities here, types of Dom/mes, types of subs/slaves, types of relationships and the issues that arise in those relationships. I haven't read a whole lot about the early stages, so thought I'd throw out a question.

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 6

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 6:27:02 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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As my Master and I discussed things that I found extreme, and as my boundaries were slowly expanded outward until they dissolved, we would talk about all sorts of scenarios. Often if we came upon something that I felt I could do without trauma, yet it was something he really had no interest in doing, he would tell me something like, "I really have no interest in doing that, and probably never will. But I might decide to one day."

It's been interesting to see us both experience expanded boundaries over time. Things he used to have no interest in, he now enjoys. Things I never thought I could do, I now crave. One just never knows....lol.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 7

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 6:57:37 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

So, are there things you choose not to be so open about early on, in order to gain the upper hand, so to speak?

If I have to manipulate in order to gain power, I don't really have any power...it's merely the illusion of power.

I'm pretty much open and honest. I feel, as do others, that being a good Master means that I willing to have a degree of transparency.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 8

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 7:02:01 PM

Voltare

Posts: 841
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From: Santiago, Chile
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ownedgirlie makes a great point, too.

There's stuff that I enjoy a lot more now than I ever did before (like Daddy/daughter) while other activities just aren't that important.

If you're in the early stages, then I'll toss out a couple of thoughts. Try to draw a line between discussing what you like when you're playing, and what you like when you're on the couch. When gretchen's tied up, on the verge of orgasm, I could probably tell her she's going to try bestiality, and she'd enjoy it. When we're sitting on the couch eating pasta and watching Law & Order, it would probably make her spit it out.

That is, of course, just me. After two years together, gretchen and I have a good idea of what we like, don't like, and where the limits are. When you're first starting out, it never hurts to go a little slow, and talk a little too much.

And, for what it's worth, we still think of ourselves in the 'early' stages of the relationship.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 9

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 7:55:01 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Gosh, doms who WORRY about sharing who they are "too early" are really not people I'd want to be in an authority based relationship with.

Secondly, training is not something that occurs in the early stages- it's a constant. Discipline, conditioning, shaping- it never ends. I am always reaching for the long term vision and while training in the first month may not at all resembler training in the 46th month, it is still very much present.

For me, I don't at all consciously choose or discuss what to share. I think this is the same as it is in vanilla life- over time and shared experiences, your social bond becomes more open to sharing intimacies. If it is right for you to share, then you should share. If it is not right for you to share, then you should not share.

Someone who fears sharing who they are is someone not ready to be in a relationship with another. They either share or they do not- there is no place for fear.

This isn't to say doms have no fears about sharing who they are- in fact many are insecure about opening up fully and being "vulnerable"- this is different from being afraid of sharing itself or losing ground because of the intimacy.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 10

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 8:28:36 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

I understand what you're saying about fears LA, and agree with you. But I was thinking more along the lines of what Voltare said he did and what Master Fire Ma'am was talking about in regards to "manipulating".

I dunno, maybe they go hand in hand?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 8:35:13 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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I see the molding of the mind as a form of manipulation. I don't think all manipulation is bad. Sometimes my Master will say something just to plant the idea in my mind, knowing I'll go off and mull it over awhile and then bring it up to him at some later date. In my Master's case, there are things that are probably never going to happen, but he let's me know they can happen, if he ever wants them to. Sometimes it evolves me into a different mindset, and helps me go where I need to go. He's talked about throwing me in a room of 25 men for them to fuck me at random as they wish. The likelihood of this happening is pretty low, but it is not an impossible idea, and wrapping my mind around it broadens my view. The first time he mentioned this - quite some time ago - I was totally overwhelmed and afraid of the idea. The last time he mentioned it, I grinned and said "Bring it on!"

I just see it as mental training. It helps in other areas. Hey, if I can be open to that, then I can be open to other things, too.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 12

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 8:41:20 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
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YES! ownedgirlie, this is what I'm talking about! I probably didn't explain myself very well, but your story is the kind of situation I'm referring to. Thank you!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 13

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/10/2006 8:55:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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Well there ya go!

Glad it was what you were looking for. Personally I love it when he does this. And every once in awhile...the things he mentions? He actually does.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 14

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 5:37:41 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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No, he doesn't lie to me or deliberately not answer in order to screw with my mind. But I don't have much respect for that and although it would work at the time, it would lessen my respect and trust in the dominant doing it. A definite double edged sword as he could easily have attempted a mind fuck and found me responding, "sorry but we're not compatible, goodby and good luck". And then what? Admit he was lying so I would be damn sure he was not trustworthy or admit he was deliberately trying to make me afraid and unsure which also is not what I want from a relationship.

Even though he isn't poly, if he had not been clear about it then I would have concluded we weren't compatible. And I can't be forced to submit. I can only be inspired, by someone whom I see as moral and trustworthy.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 15

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 6:05:07 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
My own relationships have nothing to do with screwing with my partner's mind, or gaining the upper hand with information I can use to my advantage.

I like her, she likes me. I desire that she serve, and she desires to serve. I desire to control, and she desires to be controlled. No need to make it any more complicated for that.

So simple and no one has to be a mental contortionist to do it. Great post..

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 16

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 7:16:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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I think this becomes a problem because hey, a lot of people love the mind fuck and the feeling of being manipulated by someone else- but they don't realize the problems of "fucking around with essential relationship aspects" and "fucking around with fun kinky stuff." They just want the high from fucking around, use the Ds as justification to manipulate based on insecurities and it all gets messed up in the end.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 17

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 2:46:08 PM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
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Some people enjoy mindfucks (I'm one of them.) Obviously some people don't (mistoferin might fall into that catagory.) Those of us who enjoy them need to be careful with them, just like any other risky activity.

We used an axe in a scene today. If I wasn't careful, I could have done some serious damage to her. We both loved it, but any number of things could have gone horribly wrong if we weren't careful. The same can be said for 'mindfucks' but that's not my real worry.

In new relationships, where the boundries are still being set and tested, and mutual limits and expectations are still being discussed, the statement "I'm going to do such horrible things to you, I don't even want to tell you" is playing with fire. The guy who says it might just being trying to raise the fear bar to give the sub a thrill. He might be into some genuinely heavy types of play (though guys who are into seriously dangerous stuff usually don't need to say something like that.) But, finally, they could be unbalanced, with no real concept of what they should - or shouldn't - be doing. I fell in the first group, but I know there's more than a few in the last.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 18

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 3:01:22 PM

crouchingtigress

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Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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I like transparency in all my dynamics.

You can manage some pretty good mind f*cks with out having to hold yourself back emotionally, spiritually, and mentally...and if you cant then you might want to rethink having mind fucks as an essential part of your repitore...

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 19

RE: The Mind of the Master (or Mistress) - 12/12/2006 5:29:37 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

Thank you all for the replies! Some very thought provoking responses!

I really do find the variations on how each Master/Mistress handles their relationships to be fascinating!

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 20

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