The definition

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yourMissTress -> The definition (12/13/2006 8:37:54 PM)
I would love to ask the question "why do people need to define others' relationships?" But I know the answer to that one. So, I want to know...is your relationship defined by you and your partner(s)? or are you affected by the opinion of others? Now, I know that the immediate reaction is going to be "of course no one defines my relationships but me" but take some time to think about it, and tell me the why's and the how's.

mistoferin -> RE: The definition (12/13/2006 8:56:20 PM)
As I am not currently in a relationship I can only answer in retrospect. I have found that people have at times attached their own labels to my relationships or simply made judgements or commentary that seemed to stem from them comparing "ours" to their own experiences. I did not find that it changed our personal definition of what we had though. Most often what occurred is that when attempting to view it through their perspective, it merely re-affirmed for me what I already felt. On rare occasion someone has made comment that made me look at some particular aspect in a new light. Sometimes that could lead to a greater appreciation of that aspect....sometimes it could lead to an understanding of it that made me realize that I was not as satisfied with it as I could be. That in turn could lead to introspection, communication and positive change. It really depended upon the depth of the relationship that I had with the person making the commentary and what their motivations were. Let's face it...there are some folks who are miserable in life and want everyone else to join them...so they like to stir shit. Shit stirrers opinions don't count for much here though.

Archer -> RE: The definition (12/13/2006 9:00:34 PM)
To claim nobody else has an effect on how we deine our relationships is denial at best. The debates we have on definitions wpold never ge as heated as they do if we each had not been sold on our personal definitionswe would have nowhere near the passion we have for defending them. In fact if we are honest with ourselves the definitions we hold today are not what they were when we started to read and study and live as we do now. Personally I like to discuss and debate definitions as an exercise in conciously molding my ideas to find the best ones for me. The free market of ideas means we compare and contrast the various thoughts and ideas out there and when we find something that is better or a way to improve our current idea we adapt. People often take this wrong though and think when I am debating the ideas merrits, that I am discounting them, I am usually not I am seeking the best way to compare and contrast them and have found something in the idea that I have to dig deeper and better understand before I can make a sound judgement on if there is something there that warrants me adapting. I assume that others are doing the same thing working on adapting their thoughs searching for an idea that might improve their understanding of a concept. Urortunatly that assumption is sometimes in error. The times when I am not looking for something that I may find reason to adapt my thoughts, I may well be trying to "sell" my idea to someone else as something for them to consider adapting their own views around. Whole ideas ray shift in leaps and bounds, usually the changes sneak up on you and what happens suddenly, is the realiaion of how far the little shifts have added up to moving your thinking. In Leather Archer

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The definition (12/13/2006 9:20:22 PM)
I am indeed affected by the opinions of others. My recent thread in Ask a Switch shows that pretty obviously. But how I define my relationship is completely between my partners and myself.

starshineowned -> RE: The definition (12/13/2006 9:33:19 PM)
Greetings..~smiles~ I am not so sure it is truely always a case of trying to define others relationships (as in "what will work best for them") mentality. We use definitions to help explain, express, and identify. In the scope of words there are just only so many definitions people are willing to accept for them without there constantly being utter chaos, and ineffective communication to the point that everyone is speaking a different language. People often use terminology inappropriately for alot of reasons I guess that truely do not match up with what they are saying about themselves when presenting themselves to others. If all else fails..I fall to various dictionarys to get the base meaning of a word and work from there. If my definition is not including that base thats accepted then I'm not using it correctly to express. Branching off of that base to make it more personalized by adding other things or detracting some things is a different matter but as long as that base is there I feel I am doing correctly in expressing my agreement or disagreement in how someone else is using the term. It matters alot as well the inception of words (under what circumstances were the words or phrases formed to begin with). This to me is a great part of the base makeup for a word or phrase. The dynamic was defined mutually by communication and agreed upon. It would have probably not of ever come to be had our definitions of these words not have held the same or very close meanings. My ideals of what a slave is and does is definetely not being treated equally or like some princess on a pedestool. Had Masters ideals of slave been that..we'd not be together. Since agreed upon..the dynamic is now defined, visited, refined as needed by Master. Master does have a better capacity for openess to listening to other reasonings, and will take, reject as he wishes. Well Wishes starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

Kalira -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 2:00:43 AM)
Ours is defined by Master and I. Why? Well, because most would define us as being Gorean, yet, both Master and I would disagree. We only go so far as to say that we are long distance/real time/Master/slave, with an added bonus of some serious kink thrown in [:)]

Voltare -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 5:24:04 AM)
Hrm. In seeing the way different dynamics function outside of our own, we get better insight into how our dynamic works (and better identify where it doesn't work so well.) It also can prompt ideas on better ways for us to do what we do, as well as giving us the opportunity to socialize in a way that our vanilla friends and family can't/don't/won't understand so well.

yourMissTress -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 5:44:59 AM)
First, thank you all for very well thought out posts. erin, I like the point that you made about seeing or viewing aspects of your relationship through the eyes of someone else and how it made you re-evaluate those aspects and find appreciation or a need for change. Thank you. Archer, excellent point regarding discussing and debating definitions to gain a deeper understanding. Through debate and discussion I have learned so much, even when the discussion is heated. Thank you. LA, like it or not we are all affected by others opinions, but they don't have to define us. Thank you. Starshineowned, you give a good example of taking your own definition of who you are and what you want your relationship to be, and finding someone who believes the same definition to be true. Thank you. Kalira, good for you and your master, your relationship is not affected by what others think. Thank you. Voltare, I agree that seeing how others function is helpful, it is how we are all socialized, by the sum of our social interactions. Thank you.

jimbo747 -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 11:44:59 AM)
dont care so much and it wont bother you anymore

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:16:11 PM)
Our relationship is defined by us. We have discussed it at length what it is to us. Neither one of us let others view of Master and I change our opinion. It is what we define it as, that is what is important to us. Other's definition does not have an effect on our views or relationship.

Missokyst -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:20:37 PM)
I have never felt the need to justify my relationships to anyone. Nor to define it to anyone but me. If someone looks into the window of my world, they might see a ds, a nilla, a friendship, a teacher and student, a boss and employee. That's fine. I really don't care how someone views me, as long as they don't limit me. My personality is not driven by someone else's viewpoint. I am going to be me, and do what I need to, regardless of what sort of label is attached along the way. Of course, when I AM in a relationship, my need changes to what he might want, and that is what matters to me. Still, it has never affected how I feel about what an outsider thinks. Kyst, wild and free sagittarius.

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:24:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourMissTress ...is your relationship defined by you and your partner(s)? or are you affected by the opinion of others? I never gave a rat's ass what other thought...they do not know Me nor any means of a relationship I may have. I have found there are many unhappy people out there with low self esteme so they feel the need to gossip regardless if they know the person or not. So put My check in the DEFINED by Me & partner column. ;) After all where are they when all is said and done? Ross Bon D' Age' : BDSM http://tinyurl.com/ygblqt Designermite : http://tinyurl.com/ueov5 Soul of Motorcycle Art http://tinyurl.com/ybg73a

yourMissTress -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:29:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jimbo747 dont care so much and it wont bother you anymore Since this is in direct reply to my OP, would you care to elaborate? Don't care about what? and what won't bother me?

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:32:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourMissTress So, I want to know...is your relationship defined by you and your partner(s)? or are you affected by the opinion of others? The answer for me is both. I am very comfortable in saying that me and mine run our relationship, but I am (or we are) affected by words/examples from people I care about and respect. M

jimbo747 -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:35:45 PM)
you know

MstrssPassion -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 12:46:08 PM)
lol people's heads would pop if they were given the task to "define" my current relationship

akisha -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 1:25:14 PM)
I've never felt the need to justify or define my relationships past or present. Where other's opinions effect me is in regards to activities. There has been more then one thread on here about things that I was straight out terrified of, but after reading others experiences and sitting and taking the time to think, most times my fear has lessened enough that i could actually agree to try it atleast once S So thanks to all of you that have helped lessen some of my anxieties [sm=kiss.gif]

SusanofO -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 2:05:30 PM)
You know how people can be married for years and then they get a divorce and their friends may be shocked because they all thought they were the "perfect couple", etc? Well, I'd venture some of the folks judging other people's relationships don't know the "ins and outs" of the way that relationship really works (or doesn't) - along the same lines if its a bdsm relationship, too. So, their input and feedback may be pertinent at times, and other times may be completely useless or not apply at all. As far as to why people give advice or comment on other peoples' relatonships, I think they are either: 1) Trying to be helpful or just making general conversation (although it's a little too personal a comment in my book to qualify as casual conversation, maybe some don't think so as the bdsm world can be more "casual" then the "vanilla" world in some ways) 2) being nosey (in which case I think it's okay to jsut say: "I'll take that into consideration, thanks" (and ignore further comments), or say "why do you comment or ask me that?" (in which case, they'll either tell you, or hopefully get smbarrassed), etc. 3) think their advice is akin to Moses handing down the Ten Commandments from the mountain top (big ego) - they know "how it's done" (and you don't and need their advice, they think). I usuually am surfacely polite to these people, pay them lip service (so they will go away, hopefully), and then change the subject - if they annoy me. 4) think you're in trouble and genuinely need it? If they know you well, their advice may be worth listening to, in that case. But - if one didn't actually ask for advice, it's usually harder to hear (my opinion). - Susan

CreativeDominant -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 2:49:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourMissTress I would love to ask the question "why do people need to define others' relationships?" But I know the answer to that one. I still couldn't resist offering...~s~...because in part, consciously or unconsciously, we compare/define our own relationship in relation to what others of a similar and of a different ilk are. quote: So, I want to know...is your relationship defined by you and your partner(s)? or are you affected by the opinion of others? Now, I know the immediate reaction is going to be "of course no one defines my relationships but me" but take some time to think about it, and tell me the why's and how's. I am not in a relationship right now but I can look at my past from a not-too-jaundiced position and state that I've always believed that while my partner and I defined our relationship and set the boundaries, I cannot in all honesty say that I have not been affected by the opinions of others or that I will not be in the future. That said...it depended on who those 'others' were. Talking with a friend of mine who is a relationship counselor was what sort of helped to crystallize my vague, uneasy feelings about my marriage. As noted, I handled these realizations in an improper manner and paid the consequences but that wasn't his fault. That was mine because I what I should have done was continue to ask questions and get help from him and then take this to my partner. Live and learn. You have to be careful though that, when you ask for what others see, to be able to look at their opinion critically while at the same time keeping an open mind to what they are saying. People sticking their nose in without being really close to me and/or my partner and without being asked would most generally get a slightly frosty "and you are telling me this...why?"

KnightofMists -> RE: The definition (12/14/2006 3:40:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yourMissTress So, I want to know...is your relationship defined by you and your partner(s)? or are you affected by the opinion of others? Both! In the end.. I decide who or what I am for myself. However, Everyone that comes in contact with me will have their own opinions of who and what I am. Who I am is based on a perception that is incomplete... I may see my internal thoughts and feelings, but I do not see the the internal thoughts and feelings of how others precieve me. I can only judge based on how they interact with me. Others will just see who interact with them and not see my feelings and thoughts. In many ways, our defined selves and of others is incomplete. As I discover aspects that I never precieved before, generally due to the sharing of feelings and thoughts of others that are significant to me, I will be influenced in how I percieve myself. These same people will also learn some of my own internal feelings and thoughts which will influence how they percieve me. It really sets up and interesting little cycle. However, I choose who will allow to influence my own view of self and how I define myself. Regardless how you may see me. It is rather irrelevant if I am disinterested in your thoughts and feelings on the subject. I am influenced by those that I allow! Therefore, Directly or Indirectly... I am choosing how to define myself.

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