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Just wondering a few things - 12/16/2006 7:17:05 AM   
Nytewolf


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 I was wondering what the difference between Dom/sub and top/bottom is?  I've heard these terms but i have no idea what the difference  is.  I am also wondering what sub space is? if someone could explain these to me, I would really appriciate it. 
Thanks
nyte
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RE: Just wondering a few things - 12/16/2006 7:40:43 AM   
SweetSarijane


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Top and bottom are generally used in casual play ie at play parties with Top being the one wielding the whip/paddle/flogger etc and bottom being the one who receives. Dom/sub and Master/slave generally denotes a dynamic in place between the two.

edited for spelling gremlins

< Message edited by SweetSarijane -- 12/16/2006 7:42:40 AM >


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RE: Just wondering a few things - 12/16/2006 8:16:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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http://www.collarchat.com/m_661159/mpage_1/key_dom%252Cmaster/tm.htm#661288
Master/Dom difference

http://www.collarchat.com/m_605383/mpage_1/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#606932
Ms vs Ds

http://www.collarchat.com/m_486719/mpage_1/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#486891
from dom to master

http://www.collarchat.com/m_271859/mpage_2/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#272880
dom or master

Master vs Dom


http://www.collarchat.com/m_629559/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#629565
What's the difference between a slave and a submissive?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)



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RE: Just wondering a few things - 12/16/2006 9:33:58 AM   
MadameMarque


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It's a good question!

First, it should be acknowledged that definitions of terms, in a subculture, can vary according to source, because they are sometimes regional, sometimes subjective, and often politicized.

The accepted definitions, as I and many people I know, use them, go something like this:

Top/bottom: These terms denote the person "on top," and the person under them, in some sense. 
 
The top is the active or aggressive or in-charge one; this could mean they are, for example, dominant, a sadist, the person applying some restraint or discipline, even simply the person doing the penetrating, in sex.  The last definition has been more commonly used in the gay scene, which is where the terms "top" and "bottom" originated.
 
The bottom, then, is the passive or receptive one, meaning that they are, for example, submissive, a masochist, submitting to restraint or discipline, or the person being penetrated, in sex.
 
As you see, top and bottom are general terms.  They do not specify in what sense each party is aggressive and receptive.
 
A person might be a top, in one situation or with one person, and a bottom in another or with another.  Some people identify as only one side of the dynamic, top or bottom, with all partners.


All talk of who's a "real" something or other...dominant, submissive,  etc., aside...all of these terms apply whether the degree to which they apply is very mild or quite severe.


Dominant/submissive: The dominant imposes their will and power and the submissive submits their personal will and power to the rule of the dominant.  Again, the degree to which this happens could be very mild to extreme.
 
You might say that the dominant and submissive dynamic are centered around psychological satisfaction.  These roles involve a psychological dynamic. 
 
They have a physiological effect on people, of course.  The combined emotional, mental, and chemical/physical effect of having a heightened submissive experience is what is referred to as "subspace."  [Much more could be said, in describing subspace, but this is the most basic definition.]  Dominants certainly have a dynamic heightened experience, too, though oddly, there's no commonly used term (that I know of), for it.


Sadist/masochist: A sadist derives satisfaction from infliction of suffering and a masochist derives satisfaction from having suffering purposefully inflicted upon them.  Though often these terms are used around physical pain, sadomasochism can also involve mental or emotional suffering.

A person could be a dominant, without being a sadist.  For example, they might have someone serve them as a butler, but never inflict suffering upon their servant.  They could be a masochist without being submissive.  For example, they might love being beaten, but not abide being treated as a subordinant - no 'yes, Ma'am,' 'yes, Sir,' for them.  So, the terms are not interchangeable.


Fetishism, by the way, is deriving sexual gratification from an object or act that is not inherently sexual, or by exposure to that object or act outside of the context of sex.  So, although fetishism is often combined with D/s or BDSM, a fetish is not automatically dominant/submissive or sadomasochistic.


Of course, it's more common to see combinations of these dynamics.  So, when someone says they are dominant or submissive, this usually - but not always! - implies some degree of sadomasochism involved, as well as D/s.  Likewise, a person may describe themselves as a sadist or masochist, but intend to imply a dominant/submissive relationship with the person they make suffer/take suffering from. 

This is one of the reasons that it's so important to communicate fully.  Don't take it as assumed that when you use a term, you have, in your mind, the same thing the other person has, in theirs.



"If his love is to be called perverse, then let it be so, for maybe love is too great to be normal, too intense to be sane."
 
- from a review of the Japanese film, Gekko no Sasayaki aka Moonlight Whispers, found at http://imdb.com/title/tt0208178.
 
 

< Message edited by MadameMarque -- 12/16/2006 9:49:17 AM >

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RE: Just wondering a few things - 12/17/2006 12:49:30 AM   
Nytewolf


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Thank you for all your help.  It really has helped me a lot.  Yet, still has me thinking things through which is a good thing.  Made me re-think a few things about my own life as it is right now (which isn't the best but oh well). 
nyte

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RE: Just wondering a few things - 12/18/2006 6:41:26 AM   
Nytewolf


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i've finally figured out the few things i still had to figure out.  my husband and i were were "playing" at being in a Dom/sub relataionship but it just wasn't working for us.  Which is sad cuz we thought we were in in for the last four years.  Last night we talked and talked and talked (something  we needed to do for a LONG time) and decided that between us it just didn't work.  So, we decided just to be together.  The nice thing is that my hubby knows i want/need to be submissive so he doesn't mind if i find someone else, which i have, or at least maybe have.  i am exploring this with another and i was having a hard time dealing with it.  i'm not sure if that makes sense or not.  (sorry if it doesn't)  i didn't know how to divide my time between my hubby, potential Dom, kids, work, and house.  I have figured it out to  some degree now and i am actually a whole lot more relaxed.  i didn't realize that i could be happy with two different type of people at the same time.  but i am and so i am going to just go with the flow for now at least.  i've decided to see where it all leads and if it works out great.. if not, i'll move on yet again.  

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