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crouchingtigress -> RE: What I take away from the "Gift" dispute. (12/17/2006 6:08:31 AM)
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The thread you speak of I left after page one or two. I see too many people stubbornly holding their ground with a very narrow view. They have no interest in even beginning to acknowledge that while they may be right for them, their point of view is not right or the best one for everyone else. The endless battles just serve to ridicule their opinion and themselves in my eyes.
tigress thank you for you post, it speaks to the "rocks hitting rocks " issue i was speaking about in my post better then i could express it
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Personally I enjoy reading well written thoughts on a subject from a perspective I have never considered, perhaps ask some questions, toss out my own thoughts. And then, give it some thought. Sometimes my perspective changes, I learn something, I grow. Sometimes I just end up agreeing to disagree.
in the spirit of considering other perspectives i would like to toss out somthing...the use of the word manipulation in your second post...the prevent connotation on these boards is that being manipulative makes one intrinsically bad... but i do always see it that way.
the folks i see using the submission is a gift are typically newer folk, in fact i dont know any one who has even a few years in the life using the term..... i am guessing it is because of exposure to these debates ....but who knows.
my thoughts are that when you are new, things look scary, transparency is scary, obedience, autonomy, punishment, accountability ect...and that does not even begin to address the physical stuff of leather masks, knives, chains ect...anyway going in to this scary world folks need to have something to stabilize them, something to help them feel as though they are in control, this is what others call manipulation, because one person is attempting to control a situation by leveraging the little bit of control he or she feels like they have.
i know you said you have scars from being manipulated, and that i inferred to mean you were manipulated with the who "my submission is a gift" thing and i was wondering, if you look back can you say that person had the intent to hurt you, or did they use it as leverage, a tool of self preservation?
for me i see it as a tool of self preservation and although it maybe manipulative so is just about every thing we do every day...we attempt to move things in a way that suits us, or as Websters says:To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: She manipulated the lights to get just the effect she wanted.
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On something as personal as submission, after all how I view it only matters to the person that is submissive to me, I refuse to get into a battle of words and meanings that has no worthwhile outcome. If I see a poster that I have come to respect interject I may read or respond but for the most part I would just avoid it. More often than not I see such inflammatory threads as gages of the contributors temperament and personality. Those that battle the most obstinately, treating those that disagree with them as idiots, will generally be someone I would not wish to spend time with in person.
i totally agree and i dont often jump into these things for the same reason....lol....but you post was interesting to me and i felt i wanted to understand more...especially when you said you had scars....because as i say i inferred it was from some one manipulating you and i wanted to understand how that could happen a little better....and because it is 4 am here and my brain goes funny at this hour.[:)]
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