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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 7:54:30 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		This is a recognized form of play, termed "predicament play".  I've attended several good workshops on the topic, and to a certain extent, I think most Dominants/Tops have included some form of predicament play in a scene or two. 
 
Some predicament play can become quite elaborate.
 
John

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(in reply to DominaSmartass)
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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 7:54:54 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Master does this sort of thing to me all the time.  The OP didn't say impossible, she said nearly impossible. 


I understand and agree with what you're saying ownedgirlie, but I focused on the following quote from the OP and that was what I reacted to, even though it is different from her first paragraph. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
So what do you think? Would your answer change if it caused your sub a lot of frustration, emotional turmoil, etc., to not be able to do what it is that he/she she has been ordered to do but really wants to?


A difficult task that requires extreme effort, determination, creativity, etc. to accomplish it, is a whole nuther ballgame for me than an impossible task that simply cannot be done.  I am a problem solver by nature (hey I'm a Virgo!), so a challenge I can handle and might even relish (depending on what it was ), and you betcha I'd beam with pride when I accomplished it. 

But give me a task that simply cannot be done, and you've set me up for frustration and ultimate failure. 



I missed that bolded part until now.  My Master would not order me to do something he knew I could not do.  That would not accomplish his goal of creating a better, stronger, me.  However, he has often ordered me to do things I thought I couldn't do, and even emphatically stated I could not do......but he didn't let up and I did them.  Not without wailing and gnashing of teeth, mind you, but I did them nonetheless, and came out soaring from it.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 8:16:50 PM   
wetsub4u


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		i see things as they should be and say 'why not'

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Some people look at things the way they are, and say why................


fill in the rest...
Bobbie K.



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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 8:22:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you,  I think we should repair to the Chandlery in Everett, is it still there? Or the oyster house and  see if this could be topical repartee in this thread.  I believe it is.

You behave.

Ron  

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 8:40:32 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Though Master does not like..well actually "not like" is mild..setting people up for failure or those that do it...I do see just that as a tool at times that could be used in a constructive manner. Some people do go off the deep end when they have failed. You see the written reaction here from Owners and owned alike about their feelings regarding "unintentional" failures to either or, and how it hurts. Sometimes a person actually does need to learn the very lesson that failure is not the end of the world but a opportunity to excel, and we all fail from time to time. Under the right guidance with this tool..I think it can be quite useful.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 9:10:06 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I was also thinking that you could set a task up that will likely end in failure but the real test being to see how they react. I don't think this should be over used and it should be explained thoroughly afterwards so that the lesson is truly learned. Since I do not play, I don't really relate to those answers that seem to point towards play. I may be missing it.


Orion

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 9:57:04 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

This is a recognized form of play, termed "predicament play".  I've attended several good workshops on the topic, and to a certain extent, I think most Dominants/Tops have included some form of predicament play in a scene or two. 
 
Some predicament play can become quite elaborate.
 
John


Yeah, I've heard of predicament play, though never been to a class on it, but that's not quite what I was going for, or maybe it was? I don't actually know, lol. In some ways the term "play" fits, but for the most part what I was trying to get at was not a situation that was playful but rather one where the dominant likes to see just how hard the sub will work at something that would not normally be so hard when put under certain conditions that make it exceedingly more difficult. For example, I once teased a boy by tying him up, gagging him, and then saying, "So, tell me about your day." And then slapped him around playfully when he "refused" to tell me about his day, because obviously, being gagged he couldn't. That, to me, is very different from giving someone a task and then making it purposefully more difficult but still expecting it to get done. Using my original example, I could care less HOW the house gets cleaned. Whether he's in chains, naked, fully clothed and free, or pays a cleaning service to do it for him while he watches TV, I don't care. As long as what I said to be done is done, I don't get any more pleasure out of knowing he had a hard time with it. Of course, if someone puts in a lot of effort because a task is inherently difficult I want to show appreciation of his hard work. But that's entirely different than creating something intentionally frustrating or hard for him to do just to make him prove he is dedicated.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 10:30:32 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Serious question now................
You ever watched some one die of lets say lung cancer, and talk about how sorry they are that it is happening and they let you down...........

Abuse..........?

I wholly agree, not machinery; but animals...............................

Linnaeus



Uhhh, misfired reply fucntion, I'm a noob with this BB and replying to the OP, sorry if you read any slight on what you said.  Yes, no one's in control of this ride.  And yes, I have watched someone die and apologize and I have also apologized during a year of intense illness to my loved ones in the exact manner you're describing.

If you mean that no-win situations in a D/s relationship can function as teaching models or models in some ways for this larger lesson in "control" being fundamentally an illusion, I thinkt there's potential there, but this has to be done in a thinking and communicative way.


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/19/2006 10:42:20 PM   
emdoub


Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~ to lighten this up a tad...

Yup - I won't make it impossible, but I will encourage them to spread their wings, stretch their muscles, and work hard to achieve the goal - and the rewards are comensurate with the difficulty.

Nobody gains by doing the easy - conquering the difficult, however, pays in ways that I can never, directly, achieve.  I do it with my subs, I do it with my kids - sometimes, I do it with myself. 

Conquering the boring, easy task is just that - easy and boring.  Conquering the difficult, challenging task is just that - difficult, challenging - and rewarding as all hell.

Midnight Writer


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(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 6:04:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		My dearest friend,

I took no umbrage at your posting, and hope you took none at mine.  Anyone out here would tell you that if I had a case of the ass about something, it would spatter blood throughout the hemisphere.............

LOLOLOL,

Happy Holidays to You and Yours.

Sincerely,
Ron 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 6:57:40 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
In some ways the term "play" fits, but for the most part what I was trying to get at was not a situation that was playful but rather one where the dominant likes to see just how hard the sub will work at something that would not normally be so hard when put under certain conditions that make it exceedingly more difficult.


And there you have captured the enjoyment a Dominant derives from engaging in "predicament play".  It's the struggle, the effort, the appearance of growing frustration, the determination.
 
Like many personal fetishes, pleasures, kinks, etc. you may not fully appreciate what that gratification is, or feels like, but knowing that it exists is enough to understand on a general level.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 7:34:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You can see some really good demos on predicament play by watching the movies
'Saw' and 'Saw II'.  lots of good ideas there.

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 8:13:39 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
Have you ever or would you ever put your sub/slave in a situation to do something that is more difficult than necessary, just because you like it that way?


I have done things like this numerous times. One of my favs was to place a former sub of mine in a 5-points chain which wasn't designed for someone far shorter & have him prepare meals.

(5-points: a chain that extend from a neck collar to both wrists & ankles)

This isn't something that is exceptionally high on my list of amusement but he got a real kick out of it & who would pass up a chance to get ad inner & a show?

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MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 12:35:34 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If he assigned something that I really believed I couldn't do, I'd quit before I began. Predicament bondage I understand  but setting me up for failure I would see as emotional sadism and we don't do that. It tends to backfire as I lose trust in him and confidence in myself.

I know a lot of people enjoy emotional s&m but a lot of us can't handle it, not something to try right out of the box with a new partner and no conversation about it.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 1:36:22 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

 I think it's kind of counterproductive to a healthy relationship but like I said, I'm curious.


In my personal opinion, I would only see it as counterproductive if the relationship wasn't really established solidly. Once the relationship is established and there is no question as to whether the dominant has the submissives best interests at heart...you can throw all those cautions out the window...anything goes...we are "playing". Thats how it is in our world (Masters and mine) anyways.

I think its fun to be set up for failure...and it has no reflection on our relationship whatsoever. In fact, I really get off on it, knowing he is able to get me into such a head/feeling space of dilemma.(all good wholesome fun)

< Message edited by slavejali -- 12/20/2006 1:40:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 5:26:06 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

If he assigned something that I really believed I couldn't do, I'd quit before I began. Predicament bondage I understand  but setting me up for failure I would see as emotional sadism and we don't do that. It tends to backfire as I lose trust in him and confidence in myself.



Include me in your group. I wouldn't do well in that situation because I've been in that kind of dilemna in my marriage and my current, for another 5 days, job. I don't do well with that kind of thing. Both my ex-husband and my boss know that but they did it anyway just to frustrate me. My ex-husband did it as a way to abuse me for his amusement (no we were not D/s) and my boss did it to force me into quitting my job.

I've been given difficult tasks by Dominants and been thrilled to have accomplished what they set before me. But that's a whole different thing than being given something that has no real possibility of being done.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/20/2006 9:13:53 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchenS

I remember this one time he did something like this just to see my reaction to the comand. He told me to wash the dishes holding the sponge with my elbow. I was totally optimistic towards the task. He laughed and I realized he was just being an a**clown.

I don't know if that would be one of those situations, is more related to a mind fuck. But I assure you, if that was not the case, I would have finished with the dishes around midnight.


Holding the sponge with your elbow???? How the heck do you do that? Finish the dishes around midnight? Hell, i'd still be trying to figure out how to hold a sponge with my elbow. Last i looked the elbow has no fingers. lol

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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 3:09:58 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavemaia

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchenS

I remember this one time he did something like this just to see my reaction to the comand. He told me to wash the dishes holding the sponge with my elbow. I was totally optimistic towards the task. He laughed and I realized he was just being an a**clown.

I don't know if that would be one of those situations, is more related to a mind fuck. But I assure you, if that was not the case, I would have finished with the dishes around midnight.


Holding the sponge with your elbow???? How the heck do you do that? Finish the dishes around midnight? Hell, i'd still be trying to figure out how to hold a sponge with my elbow. Last i looked the elbow has no fingers. lol


Hold the sponge in the crook of the elbow. 


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 4:11:43 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		This sort of stuff happens all the time over here. He gets particular enjoyment out of my struggle. I do not enjoy the effort - however, I love the accomplishment.

And he doesn't just do this with tasks. He does it with my emotions, my desires, my ... everything. And when I cry, he is positively gleeful...stating "you do know I'm a sadist, don't you?" Then, I laugh through the tears, realizing he was shooting for exactly this reaction, and I find... I love it.

I am so predictable.

juliet

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 10:50:27 AM   
desoutter


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		I like the question and the answer is yes...

It depends on what slave/sub is going to explore - frustration is a good motivator for emotional exploration.... in my opinion... frustration turns into other emotions as time goes by, in a session...

An old friend of mine was trying to become more focused at work... she told me she was scattered brained sometimes and had a problem with focusing on menial tasks... becoming frustrated. She wanted to explore her own feelings of frustration and being overwhelmed.

I gave her tasks that had no meaning and were totally irritating... example: sorting M&Ms while hogtied on a table lower on one side, with her nose... colors had to be arranged in neat piles but with the table sloped, everytime she touched one with her nose - it slid off. Hysterical? yes... irritating... yes - she tryed for hours.... When I wasnt laughing, I was encouraging her... There are others but this is the one that sticks out the most...

so - did it help? - she told me it did not... but we ate a lot of M&M's, had a great time and she decided to become more proficient at delegating tasks to the newbies in her company...

answer to the question? - I think its in there somewhere...

desoutter

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Profile   Post #: 40
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