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RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 1:27:38 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra



And he doesn't just do this with tasks. He does it with my emotions, my desires, my ... everything. And when I cry, he is positively gleeful...stating "you do know I'm a sadist, don't you?" Then, I laugh through the tears, realizing he was shooting for exactly this reaction, and I find... I love it.

I am so predictable.

juliet


My slave is a very intelligent and capable man who's placed in the position of being valued for being "right" professionally, and has carried that into his self-perception to a HUGE degree. I've found that denying him the opportunity to be "correct" or to be regarded as intelligent is actually very freeing for him, because in continuing my attention he's being shown he's valued for something other than how smart and right he is. This is really well accomplished by creating fail/fail scenarios.  Some people really thrive on things that other people really couldn't tolerate. I'll bet this resonates with you a little, though I could be wrong.

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 2:14:16 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I would never set a sub up to fail, especially if I knew he would be trying his very best to comply wth a request.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 12/21/2006 3:56:36 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra



And he doesn't just do this with tasks. He does it with my emotions, my desires, my ... everything. And when I cry, he is positively gleeful...stating "you do know I'm a sadist, don't you?" Then, I laugh through the tears, realizing he was shooting for exactly this reaction, and I find... I love it.

I am so predictable.

juliet


My slave is a very intelligent and capable man who's placed in the position of being valued for being "right" professionally, and has carried that into his self-perception to a HUGE degree. I've found that denying him the opportunity to be "correct" or to be regarded as intelligent is actually very freeing for him, because in continuing my attention he's being shown he's valued for something other than how smart and right he is. This is really well accomplished by creating fail/fail scenarios.  Some people really thrive on things that other people really couldn't tolerate. I'll bet this resonates with you a little, though I could be wrong.



Well, I don't know that I'm smarter than other people or not. However, I do know I love the interplay that happens...the pleasant rivalry as he does things to get me to react and I do my best to not react in the way he thought I would. It's not a negative rivalry. Think of it as cerebral wrestling. I am thrilled each and every time. The only problem is that it usually hurts like hell before I figure out I've been played with again...and then I have to race to catch up...and the race makes me giggle, and him smile, and both of us hot for each other.

And yes, it very much is emotional sadism...thank goodness someone figured out my little triggers and how to take advantage of them while still leaving me healthy and whole.

Edited to add that as I'm thinking about this, it occurs to me that my entire life, people have been praising me for intelligence and forethought...which to me, sometimes feels rather staid...

I'd have loved to be called pretty at some point. I don't think I'm half bad in the appearance dept, but still. I think you're exactly right in presuming that each time this happens, I get this rush realizing he wants me even when he's beat me at this "intelligence and forethought" game.

He never has to say a word. He makes me FEEL pretty.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 12/21/2006 4:01:05 PM >

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/4/2007 5:29:36 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

found that denying him the opportunity to be "correct" or to be regarded as intelligent is actually very freeing for him,
 
Nice post ... I love dealing with people who need this ... I love being the catalyst for them ... when asked in the past what I love about wiiId I use to say it was the way a person finds (their) "freedom in expression" and the part I play in that...
 
Owned, Juliet, LA & Grlwithboy expressed well my own thoughts on the topic of setting the impossible task... I know too well the positives to think negatively of it.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/5/2007 10:37:45 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I have more than once had a submissive do dishes while being tied to a cabinet that gave them just enough of a reach to do the job.

What I have found is some love the challange,they are very happy when the task is completed,seeing how it was done with an added hinderment.
Then there are the ones that whine and if the job isnt completed right they blame it on being tied to something.

Why do I do it...well for the ones that whine is along the lines of the more you whine the worse it is.
For the ones that enjoy its for just that,they enjoy the challange.

I also like to send them to get My drink of coffee/water wearing spreader bars,they are not allowed to spill any.Sometimes I bind their hands to their legs so they have just enough room to pour and carry.

I have to say I get a huge kick out of hearing the chains and the grunts and groans
the "oh shit" because they spilled something....LOL

If someone decides they really dont like(not just whiney) it,I dont do it.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/5/2007 10:53:51 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn
Owned, Juliet, LA & Grlwithboy expressed well my own thoughts on the topic of setting the impossible task... I know too well the positives to think negatively of it.


Thank you, Jasmyn.

My Master and I had a conversation about something very similar tonight.  I was telling him that recently I thought I had failed him because I made mistakes in performing something for him, and didn't handle things so well.  But in reality I didn't fail at all, because I never gave up trying.  The success was in my wanting to succeed for him, and in my continual attempts to get it right, without giving up.  I told him I can not unequivocally state that from this day forward I will always do exactly as he wants me to, because as a human being I will stumble, make mistakes, and have physical limitations.  But what I can tell him is that I will always strive to give him exactly what he wants, and if I stumble or err, I will keep trying.  I thought I failed before because I had failed at being perfect...and setting myself up for perfection is setting myself up to fail. 

He agreed with this, and said what is most endearing to him is watching me do whatever it takes to "get it right" for him.  He said a girl who, when told to walk a mile balancing a bucket of water on her head, struggles, drops it, picks it back up, and never gives up, simply because she wants to please him, will be far more endearing to him than a girl who can carry a bucket effortlessly and with little meaning to it.  For him it's all about will and attitude.

(in reply to Jasmyn)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 7:30:13 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Setting up your slave/submissive to fail from an experience is demonstrating lack of regard for one's property.....

Setting up your slave/submissive to grow and learn from the experience is demonstrating care for one's property.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 8:50:52 AM   
Fawne


Posts: 462
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Serenityy

I would have to wonder at the sanity of a Dominant/Master who set impossible goals for their submissive/slave just to receive enjoyment from their inevitable failure. Even sadism has it's own limits.


You'd be surprised... it happens, sorry to say. "Impossible" is the key word. Not just a challange or pushing limits towards growth, or even as punishment.

Impossible as in to beat the slave's spirit down - for no reason, except to protect the "master's" fear of success and to inflict emotional pain and destruction. As an attempt to push the bottom to feel as low or worthless as the top feels or believes is existence.

Strength and forgiveness

Goodbye



Thank you too,  Ron and Knight.

And everyone. 

< Message edited by Fawne -- 1/6/2007 8:53:55 AM >

(in reply to Serenityy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 8:59:12 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Setting up your slave/submissive to fail from an experience is demonstrating lack of regard for one's property.....

Setting up your slave/submissive to grow and learn from the experience is demonstrating care for one's property.



I would generally really agree with this.  There are those instances, however, where the impossibility of something was unknown until the task was embarked upon.  But your point is well taken.  In my case I am occasionally challenged to just this side of impossibility.  Growth and learning is always the result on such occasions. Such challenges played a huge hand in bringing me to this place within myself, from the broken place he found me in so long ago.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 9:29:16 AM   
MsCameron


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Setting up your slave/submissive to fail from an experience is demonstrating lack of regard for one's property.....

Setting up your slave/submissive to grow and learn from the experience is demonstrating care for one's property.


You don't think the two can work together?

I once gave a submissive a 48 hour time period of no eye contact with me. For every eye contact I chalked up one cane stroke.
For that 48 hours I was in his face. He couldn't move without me being close to him. I even went to the grocery store with him.

At first he was cocky. He thought this would be a piece of cake as I knew he would. And yes, I set him up to fail. In fact I was determined that he would.

My point was this was fun for me. It gave me pleasure and I had a good time doing it. Up until that point he really didn't get it.

He got angry and he got frustrated but in the end he agreed that he learned an invaluable lesson.

MC

_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 2:44:12 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Where you motivated to Set your Sub to fail... or where you motivated to have the sub Grow and Learn from the experience?

We will fail in many things we do or ask other to do ... however,  it's question of motivation.  Set up your sub for no other reason than to fail... is disregard.  But, if one is set up to learn and grow... there is no failure.. even if the given task was failed to be achieved... there is an opportunity to learn a grow.... but only if we are motivated in that  direction.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MsCameron)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 1/6/2007 7:17:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
But, if one is set up to learn and grow... there is no failure.. even if the given task was failed to be achieved... there is an opportunity to learn a grow.... but only if we are motivated in that  direction.


My Master and I had a very similar conversation along these lines lately.  Your words ring very true to me.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/3/2007 10:18:18 PM   
iwillobeysir


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Well, like others here have said, it kinda depends on what it is you want to achieve.  When I'm acting as a sub or just in vanilla life, I see no reason to make life difficult when the sub/slave is trying to accomplish some real piece of work or a chore or something that must get done in the process of everyday life.

Now, on the other hand, if, once the work is done, and it's time to play, well, hey, there's lots of ways and lots of reasons to make simple tasks difficult.

Are you aware of a dandy piece of software called "Fond of Writing"?  A misnomer, really, since it's more like "fond of typing".....
Remember when you were a kid and got punished in school?  You had to write "I must not yada yada yada" a hundred times?  Well, imagine not that your sub has to write it out, but rather type it out on a computer.  Ridiculous, you say, 'cause the computer makes it so easy?  Well, imagine if you had to do the typing in an editor that was *specifically written to make the job of typing MORE DIFFICULT*!!

It's a wickedly evil piece of software, but clearly it's for fun time, since it serves the purpose of actually wasting the subs time in doing the typing.

If you're interested, search for it with Google.  But, my main point here is to suggest that there is a time for work and a time for play.  Don't make the real world work any harder than it has to be.   Then, play to your hearts content!


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/3/2007 10:30:07 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Yes, this is something I have done and will do in the future.  I've used it as a learning tool for both myself and my sub at times, it can also be a good game (as mean or as purely silly as one likes).

But, like everything we do, the people and situation involved have to be considered and matched appropriately...  What would be a smile and laugh later in one case could be tragic and hurtful in another.

(in reply to desoutter)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/6/2007 11:33:53 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Setting up your slave/submissive to fail from an experience is demonstrating lack of regard for one's property.....

Setting up your slave/submissive to grow and learn from the experience is demonstrating care for one's property.




But you had better know your sub very well in order to draw that line. And be prepared to deal with the aftermath if you mistake it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/7/2007 4:41:07 AM   
sadomasokisti


Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		While I love predicament bondage my Mistress set up a way more difficult scene.

Heavy S&M while put in situation where it was almost impossible to stay in the right mindset (subspace) so the pain never registered as "pleasurable" stimulus.  The only positive thing about this experience was her smile :)

_____________________________


Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/7/2007 4:55:09 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

I'm just curious for others' opinions here. This is not actually a situation I would get myself into but I do want to hear some perspectives just for the fun of it.

Have you ever or would you ever put your sub/slave in a situation to do something that is more difficult than necessary, just because you like it that way? For example: making your sub wear heavy arm and leg chains where he or she is attached to a post with only a limited length of chain, while cleaning, even though it makes cleaning efficiently nearly impossible to do (at most) and extremely frustrating to the sub (at best.) I'm curious about this and I know the reaction will vary from person to person, but I've seen and heard of this kind of stuff...

So what do you think? Would your answer change if it caused your sub a lot of frustration, emotional turmoil, etc., to not be able to do what it is that he/she she has been ordered to do but really wants to?

Do doms do this kind of thing purely for fun or is there any real legitimate reason...some sort of "training" I suppose ;) I think it's kind of counterproductive to a healthy relationship but like I said, I'm curious.

Thanks!


If you do this you do not deserve a sub.  Period.

The reason I say that is this.  Your responsibility is the well being and growth of your sub.  Your chief desire should be their happiness and to help them blossom like a flower.  That is the problem with so many Dom/mes.  They are ridiculously selfish, thinking the whole world revolves around them.  Then they look around incredulously, pointing the fingers, wondering why the sub leaves to find someone else.

As in any relationship you can only oppress someone for so long before they say "fuck you" and walk out.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/7/2007 7:34:48 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Setting up your slave/submissive to fail from an experience is demonstrating lack of regard for one's property.....

Setting up your slave/submissive to grow and learn from the experience is demonstrating care for one's property.




But you had better know your sub very well in order to draw that line. And be prepared to deal with the aftermath if you mistake it.


UM No...

It is more of a question of communicating clearly the goals/expectations of said experience .... Miscommunicate these... give the impression that the goal is to succeed... ... failure in this type of situation will have a significant aftermath.  However, if it is communicated effectively that the goal is to learn and grow from the experience and that actually success is the end result... one can minimize the consequences significantly.

Realistic expecations clearly communicate do have a tendency to be effective... regardless how well you know a person. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/8/2007 11:10:14 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		If you're saying you explain ahead of time, then you're right. Waiting until after she's failed to say "Surprise, it was just a growth experience" however is something else.

Unfortunately reading through the pages of responses, most here prefer damage control to forethought.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Making it harder than it needs to be/frustrating yo... - 2/8/2007 11:26:52 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Firstly I don't set a task that I believe is beyond the ability of My girl, even if I think it will really strech her to do it.

However I will set up a task in such a manner as to make it strech her, make her have to put in a great amount of effort, overcome the frustration and if I have judged it right, manage, with difficulty, to compleat the task.

If she fails to compleat it, yet I can tell she put every bit of effort in then she will still be praised for her effort, she will not have let Me down, will not have FAILED, only didn't compleat it... there is a diffrence.

The only ways My girl can fail Me or let Me down..... lack of effort or wrong attitude!
For anything else then so what if it doesn't get compleated, that isn't the important bit. she doesn't often not compleat things because she DOES put in that effort and does 'normaly' do so with the right attitude.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to DominaSmartass)
Profile   Post #: 60
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