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America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/19/2006 10:34:00 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Land of the free?  er... or is that slave?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI&mode=related&search=

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

Synopsis:
Determined to find the law that requires American citizens to pay income
tax, producer Aaron Russo ("The Rose," "Trading Places") set out on a
journey to find the evidence.  Neither left, nor right-wing this startling
examination of government exposes the systematic erosion of civil liberties
in America.  Through interviews with U.S. Congressmen, former IRS
Commissioner and former IRS and FBI agents, tax attorneys and authors,
Russo connects the dots between money creation, one world government
and immigration, computerized voting, federal income tax, and the national
identity card, which becomes law in May 2008.  This Federal ID card will
use Radio Frequency identification (RFID) technology.  This is striking
evidence of the evolving police state in America.
Producer/Writer/Director:  Aaron Russo
The Authorized Final Cut.  Please spread this film around!

Patriots: get involved: sign the petition and donate here:
http://naam.pair.com/aftf1626/AFTF/index.html

What do you all think?  a 999 trillion class action suit?

Free Youtube Video Downloader so you can copy and pass this little jewel around:
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php
http://video.qooqle.jp/dl/  (html)
http://www.soft32.com/download_189649.html




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 12:02:39 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		All governments are gerrymandered and imposed on the people, in that sense no one is free in the world. However, in what we rather naively call the free world, the people and the authority of state reach an accommodation.

But the claim that this investigation is neither rightwing nor leftwing is a nonsense. Only the rightwing would question the authority of the state to collect taxes for the benefit of all so the premise that this investigation doesn't have a political agenda is nonsense.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 1:24:38 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:


But the claim that this investigation is neither rightwing nor leftwing is a nonsense. Only the rightwing would question the authority of the state to collect taxes for the benefit of all so the premise that this investigation doesn't have a political agenda is nonsense.


I haven't seen the film but I thoroughly understand the argument. Realone's brief synopsis did not go into enough depth to tell the readers here that the film's premise is to attack the controversial 16th Amendment, i.e. the way taxes are generated / collected ; by taxing an individuals level of production.

So in plain speak… the film doesn't attempt to give the inclination that collecting taxes for the benefit of all is somehow immoral /illegal; it's instead attacking the method of taxation - Entirely different.
http://libertyamendment.org/

I also suspect Russo is attempting to educate the masses on the inherent evils of the Federal Reserve System, ala the multiplier, ala fractional reserve lending practices, ala money created ''out of thin air''.

Here are the film /movements primary objectives :

  • Stop the polarization of America
  • Stop the domination of the Democratic and Republican parties over our political system
  • Shut down the Federal Reserve system
  • Return America's gold to Fort Knox and have it audited
  • Have Congress and the IRS, in a public forum, reveal the law that requires Americans to pay a direct, unapportioned tax on their labor.
  • Make computerized voting illegal in all 50 states
  • Keep the internet free and out of the control of large institutions
  • Rescind the law called the Real ID Act so Americans never have to carry a National ID Card
  • Make it illegal to implant RFID chips in human beings
  • Educate juries to the fact that they have the right to determine the law as well as the facts of a case
  • Educate juries to the fact that they are not obligated to follow the instructions of a judge
  • Stop Globalization because it is the path to a one world government
  • Protect our borders
  • Restore the environment
  • Put an end to the Patriot Act
I dunno about anyone else who might interpet these, but they seem ''All American '' to me instead of democrat /republican.




- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 4:01:11 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

All governments are gerrymandered and imposed on the people, in that sense no one is free in the world. However, in what we rather naively call the free world, the people and the authority of state reach an accommodation.

But the claim that this investigation is neither rightwing nor leftwing is a nonsense. Only the rightwing would question the authority of the state to collect taxes for the benefit of all so the premise that this investigation doesn't have a political agenda is nonsense.


It doesn't appear you watched it. I actually posted about this a couple months ago http://www.collarchat.com/m_637670/mpage_1/key_IRS/tm.htm#637670, and watched it probably three time(granted a couple as background while doing other things). But It's not saying there shouldn't be any taxes but that LABOR shouldn't be taxed, as that wasn't authorized in the constitution, and the 16th admendment was never properly authorized, and the supreme court ruled that no new taxing powers were granted by the 16th admendment.

So, the IRS is operating in violation of both the supreme court and the constitution

So, the point is a tax that violates the law is illegal, and a vast amount of the collected "tax" goes to purposes that are in no way even a benefit to the taxpayer via the FED, interest on debt, and "controlled inflation".

If anything I'd think you'd agree with the movie given your views on most things.

If anything the devil of the movie is bankers that fuck the whole country. So, not really a leftwing rightwing thing. But rather anyone paying taxes on income thing.




(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 4:42:58 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		It's human nature for most people to lead, have influence, or atleast contribute a say so in a group. With that said, many will put in there two cents on what they think is best for the populace. When you see such recklessness, irresponsibility, crime, and immaturity in the world, you realize that structure and consiquence needs to be laid down. If you're to irresponsible to save and invest your money, then there's social security where the government will do it for you.

Needless to say, there are too many Chiefs and not enough indians. Would you personaly let someone do what they want are find yourself telling them what they should and shouldn't be doing?

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 12/20/2006 4:45:08 AM >

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 4:57:19 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		But citizens..... the Great Leader only looks to your continued happiness. Like a caring father, the Great Leader makes so many sacrifices for your good, to keep you safe from those who would harm you and to improve your lives.

It is most disappointing when as His children, you rebel against His wise and thoughtful guidance, choosing to believe the damaging and foolish ranting of those who would bring down harm upon you. For surely, it brings only unhappiness to take after the ridiculous notions of those who resist? The Great Leader, like a true Father has shown immense patience with those who rebel, but the time has come now when His patience is exhausted with those who will not heed Him, and instead He must look to you, His children who have not yet been tempted into straying, and protect you from similar error.

This is why the Great Leader must now take steps to maintain your safety, through greater control over your activities and associations. And, as His children, should we not be thankful for this care He shows us, and be grateful to contribute towards it for the sake of our fellow citizens? Surely, those who are not willing to take a part in protecting their brothers and sisters through adherence to their Father's wisdom, are the enemy of us all?

Let us all then, rejoice that we have such a wise and caring Father in the Great Leader. Let us all gladly submit to His guidance that we know shall surely keep us safe from those who would bring down harm upon us should we listen to them and incur conviction under section 2, subsection iiii).

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 5:19:10 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
But rather anyone paying taxes on income thing.


Wages should not be considered income. And if they were taxable it would be only as a direct tax upon the individual and according to the rules of apportionment as stipulated in the Constitution. BTW, the Supreme Court has hardly been innocent of trying to keep this tax scam going - their rulings seem to suggest that they don't know what the tax on wages is: direct or indirect. Nice. So, no hope there.


_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 6:28:46 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Lady E: since I am in line to be a Great Leader I'll thank you to show a little more respect.

ALL banks create money out of thin air, look what they did to Japan in the 80's/90's, one or the other.

The Great Leader in waiting has spoken.....G'bye serfs.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 6:35:08 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		General point.

If no one wants to pay tax then probably the best country to live in at the moment is Russia but watch out for ingesting plutonium 210.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/20/2006 6:37:27 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 6:39:36 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		UtopianRanger made the points...
  • Educate juries to the fact that they have the right to determine the law as well as the facts of a case
  • Educate juries to the fact that they are not obligated to follow the instructions of a judge

    Excellent.
    This has happened in the UK when a father, whose son had been killed or injured not sure which, in an accident caused by a lorry driver who had impaired eyesight and no insurance, shot the lorry diver..The father was charged with attempted murder and illegal possession of a firearm.
    Should have made it clear that he shot the lorry driver on the street in full view of witnesses.

    Was acquitted on all counts. he he he he he he
     
     

    < Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/20/2006 6:51:50 AM >

    (in reply to seeksfemslave)
    • Profile   Post #: 10
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 8:02:15 AM   
    MrRodgers


    Posts: 10542
    Joined: 7/30/2005
    Status: offline     		As the doctors say "Indications are: ..." Capitalism is a 'paper' economy and capitalists are paper traders.
     
    The tendancy for the capitalist has always been toward fascism and particularly how it improves profits. Afterall, capitalism is NOT ultruism in anyway. Capitalist are reptilian...lowly crawling along looking for profits...and he pretty much doesn't give a damn how he goes about it.
     
    'Capitalism' 'sends' out (moves) approx. $2 TRILLION EVERYDAY, worldwide only to see $1,980,000,000,000.00 return home at night. $1.9 TRILLION is out there speculating...looking for more money. ONLY $20 billion or 2 PERCENT of daily transactions represent demand for goods and services...WORLDWIDE.
     
    Long prior too the S & L bailout, government created whole cloth out of thin air, the term 'goodwill' meaning 'value' attached to the 'name' of the company (S & L in this case) in good standing...and allowed these S & L's to 'count' that as a certain amount of actual capital (cash) on hand...on deposit. Never mind, it wasn't actually money, but the capitalist is ALL about money...so they government allows them to 'call' this money. When the RTC (and all regualtors) and congress said no more...i.e. you can no longer call 'goodwill' money on deposit...what happened ? 
     
    The S & L's sued in Federal court claiming this was a consitutionally prohibited 'taking.' Nothing could be further from the truth as there never was money behind what amounted to no more than an accounting term...and 'given' by govt. Sure enough, the Federal Supreme court ruled that in fact the taxpayers (govt.) owed the S & L's $28 Billion. HOW...how is this possible ? Because people, the courts...OUR courts will be the first refuge of the new tryanny.
     
    Capitalism has been fascist and very voilently so...from the beginning. Particularly in our country...go look these up:
     
    Lincoln County Wars (gave birth to the 'criminal' Billy-the-kid)
    Wisconsin Meat-Packing Assoc.
    Colorado Fuel and Iron Co. (Ludlow Tent Colony)
     
    That should be more than enough to wet your appetite for research into capitalist fascism.
     
    There is more, much more but that is a very large book...yet to be written.
     
    Here are a few teasers to get you going and why I submit that 'Free Market/Capitalism is an oxymoron:
     
    Why can we have a FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.) ?
    .......................an OPIC (Overseas Private Insurance Corp.) ?
    Also, farm welfare that has expotentially cost more than AFDC did before our ONE KIND of welfare reform.
     
    Tariffs on steel and lumber being the most recent...to protect profits of course. 'Bush felt their pain' where have we heard that before ?
     
    We have to tax labor because this country was founded by a bunch of rich old white men (the capitalist and slave owner), that didn't want to pay taxes. Such things have not changed and we need the money to bailout the capitalist. So.. we tax YOU !!
     
    Why can't we have a FHIC (Federal Health Insurance Corp.)
     
    Even 20th century's greatest individual capitalist, Warren Buffet wrote an op-ed in most papers actually calling for a FIIC (Federal Insurance Insurance Corp.)
     
    I think I have it all figured out though...everybody get into a business and then we will lobby for and create a FPIC (Federal Profit Insurnace Corp.) Then EVERYBODY will 'make' a profit.
     
    Don't think it can happen ? Think again...
     
    What is the honest person to do ? Well, that's easy...go into and rely on the marketplace. Only the big boys, the most successful 'capitalist' has a right to use our brand of socialism...for the capitalist...so we are left with 'capitalism' all the way for the poor and middle class.
     
    Here is your first essay question now people:
     
    Why do we have something called an IMF (International Monetary Fund) and why are they continuing to lend to countries with extremely questionable economies and currencies, and particularly the very government we asking to pay it back ?
     
    Many have researched Mussolini's fascist Italy entering WWII. many have theorized that yes, capitalism leads toward fascism and seeks a government contolled marketplace...in the name of profits...a whole lotta profits.
     
     
     
     
     

    _____________________________

    You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

    Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J K Galbraith

    (in reply to seeksfemslave)
    Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 8:45:28 AM   
    pahunkboy


    Posts: 33061
    Joined: 2/26/2006
    From: Central Pennsylvania
    Status: offline     		Fort Knox was audited in the 60s.  From a docu I seen, the site is very protected.

    Utopian Ranger had a good reply.

    The 1917 income tax argument- if you get vocal on this- it could get you audited. You cant win this so drop it. [sorry]

    (in reply to MrRodgers)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 9:06:56 AM   
    meatcleaver


    Posts: 9030
    Joined: 3/13/2006
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

    Many have researched Mussolini's fascist Italy entering WWII. many have theorized that yes, capitalism leads toward fascism and seeks a government contolled marketplace...in the name of profits...a whole lotta profits.
     


    The whole point of western governments is to protect commerce. The whole point of western opposition is to oppose governments for the sake of its citizens.

    “The country was founded on the principle that the primary role of government is to protect property from the majority, and so it remains.”
     
    Noam Chomsky
     
      “COMMERCE, n. A kind of transaction in which A plunders from B the goods of C, and for compensation B picks the pocket of D of money belonging to E."

    Ambrose Bierce

    < Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/20/2006 9:08:57 AM >

    _____________________________

    There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

    (in reply to MrRodgers)
    Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 9:10:51 AM   
    Real0ne


    Posts: 21189
    Joined: 10/25/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
    The 1917 income tax argument- if you get vocal on this- it could get you audited. You cant win this so drop it. [sorry]


    Why not?   Isnt this a democracy?


    _____________________________

    "We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

    Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

    Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

    (in reply to pahunkboy)
    Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 9:12:56 AM   
    farglebargle


    Posts: 10715
    Joined: 6/15/2005
    From: Albany, NY
    Status: offline     		Reading Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the United States" is a real bummer.


    (in reply to Real0ne)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 9:35:03 AM   
    beastie7


    Posts: 14
    Joined: 11/24/2006
    Status: offline     		All interesting views; exceptionally insightful and knowledgeable; I'm a real dunce at this stuff, but allow my 2cents worth, if you will... however - in the words of 'The Great Communicator' Ronald Reagan..... during the Air Traffic Controllers fiasco; "I'm the president, and so what are you going to do about it."  Okay, For at least 10 to 15 years there has been a retailer, in Las Vegas, on Sahara Ave, whose only stock in trade were books, Documents etc on Tax law, et al; Everything governmental and so on. Just Last year he was finally shut down. Metro Police cars all over his building, he arrested, his placed locked, his sign -black draped. The sign had the business name with the text -Why pay taxes when no law says you have to"; and the usual address. Black Draped.
    Just another thought;
    The Postage hike......why?, added costs to the system, equipment improvements, higher wages, wage increases, added overabundance of mail......????? New aircraft to haul the mail...No, FedEx now maintains the Air Fleet, (the Post Office having resigned their Air Fleet.)  NO, ...Bush passed a law, (had passed), the postal authority must maintain in escrow some 6 Billion or so dollars above all other costs and expendures; at all times. The Post Office cannot draw upon the escrow whatsoever, for any operational expenses; only congress can withdraw, or the president, under a presidential decree, without accountability to anyone, or any agency as to reason, at any time for whatever purpose. No matter when or how much is withdrawn, the Postal System must maintain the escrow. Guarrenteed.......rate increases, continual??? Could you say this is...a hidden tax???

    The Post Office simply pushed the burden onto the public masses, in rate increases. A hidden tax?
    Fascism IS the United States of America policy.

    There is a Doc video.....Terrorstorm........very interesting.

    (in reply to pahunkboy)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 10:04:29 AM   
    pahunkboy


    Posts: 33061
    Joined: 2/26/2006
    From: Central Pennsylvania
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Real0ne

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
    The 1917 income tax argument- if you get vocal on this- it could get you audited. You cant win this so drop it. [sorry]


    Why not?   Isnt this a democracy?



    Yes it is- certainly you are free to make noise on it. But this falls under pick your battles carefully. If you write nasty or odd things or otherwise decimate your 1040 tax return, it puts you on a list.

    The 1917 law- is voluntairy compliance- and yet- somehow it is mandatory. if a person or group got a movement on this topic they would be stopped.

    You are safer with the line- of a conservative- that you wish to control you money and not the govt.

    Decimating a 1040 is not the way to go- if anyone is thinking of this.

    The IRS is a whole separate entitty- they can freaze assets and make things sticky.


    I am not saying the police will kick in your door. Im saying it would/could draw unwanted attention to the antagonizer. 

    I worked a few seasons at H-R Block... tho Im not an expert.


    (in reply to Real0ne)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 1:37:49 PM   
    mgdartist


    Posts: 328
    Joined: 5/13/2006
    From: irving tx
    Status: offline     		Download this vid (155meg-change extension to .flv(flash) if need be

    _____________________________



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    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 1:55:58 PM   
    pahunkboy


    Posts: 33061
    Joined: 2/26/2006
    From: Central Pennsylvania
    Status: offline     		LMAO_ federal profit insurance

    (in reply to mgdartist)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: America - Freedom to Fascism - 12/20/2006 2:08:33 PM   
    NorthernGent


    Posts: 8730
    Joined: 7/10/2006
    Status: offline     		A fascist state controls a nation's economy to achieve nationalist ideals.

    My understanding of the US Government is it are subservient to US multi-nationals i.e. the state has withdrawn from its regulatory role and allowed big business to dominate. This is a very neo-liberal way of running the economy i.e. it is a free-for-all as opposed to a controlled form of economic management (liberalism and fascism are almost at opposite ends of the spectrum).

    The US Government appears to be impeding a few civil liberties but a fascist regime? No.

    _____________________________

    I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

    Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

    (in reply to pahunkboy)
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