Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to go vanilla?

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Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to go ... - 12/21/2006 10:08:57 PM

Supershovel83

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
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I have a situation that has arisen. She wishes an end to what we have lived for over a year now and seeks to be vanilla again. I'm not able to do so and even if I could go back to that relationship model I could not put faith in her to maintain necessary key behaviors and posess the ability to demonstrate good judgement.

Just wondering if anyone has any insights to share.

Post #: 1

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/21/2006 10:16:08 PM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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The two of you have had a rather rocky year. Maybe it's time for a sit down and some re-evaluation of what it is that you are both wanting from life. It may be that with communication you can get back on track...or it may lead you to decide that your paths are going to go different ways. Bottom line though is....neither of you have been benefitting from the way it's been going.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Supershovel83)

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RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/21/2006 11:18:41 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Ummm....so your opinion on whether she has good judgement or not is based on whether or not she wants to continue a Ds relationship with you? That doesn't seem totally fair. Probably what had happened is that she did it to please you, but because it wasn't really her, she was only able to keep it up so long before becoming unhappy and unfullfilled.

Spend some time talking to her about it...about what she thinks she needs to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship. Then, you'll have to look at if you can, in all fairness to yourself and your happiness, provide that for her. You may find that you can...you may find that you simply have to move on in order to be fulfilled.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to Supershovel83)

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RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/21/2006 11:33:42 PM

IvyP

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/28/2006
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shes tired....one can see it in. her eyes..if dynamics change, reevaluate

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 12:04:36 AM

aSlavesLife

Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
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I wish I had some words of advice to offer, but I don't. I had a similar situation on my hands several years ago when my M/s relationship ended over this sort of request from her. An 8 year relationship ended overnight because of it. And there was no question of her not being " into " BDSM and only doing it for my benefit, as she was the one who approached me with it. I was devastated because I loved her deeply. But I could no more switch to a vanilla relationship than an average person could deal with their spouse suddenly requesting a sex change. It is a package deal with me, part of what I am, and to ask me to abandon it? I had rather face the heartbreak of a shattered relationship than to lose the very essence of the relationship while continuing to dwell in its cold shadow.

(in reply to IvyP)

Post #: 5

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 4:29:24 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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this has happened to me.

what caused me to request us to go vanilla was i lost faith in his ability to steward me, he dropped the ball on so many aspects of the dynamic that i felt abandoned by him and felt he was just getting the perks with out doing any of the work...

its funny in this situation though, he seemed completely oblivious that there was any deep problems. and yet i tried to explain for months that I felt like the balance of the dynamic was not in place and i could not do my part because he was not doing his....it fell on deaf ears.

it may not be as simple as she wants to go vanillia...she may just need your attention and cant figure out any way to get you to realize there are some problems that you are unwilling to address.

what have you done to grow with your dynamic with her?
were they things she felt she wanted to do?
what are you not giving her that she needs?

also you say you cant trust her to make decisions in good judgment ...can you go in to detail about this?

one thing that is obvious to me though, is that everything you once had faith in an and worked to build, is in big trouble, and that you both have lost faith....and i can tell you from her perspective nothing is more soul crushing then to have to follow orders of some one you have completely lost faith in.

Every command feels like a chore, all the joy is gone, you feel like a prisoner held against your will, and you want to rebel in a million different passive aggressive ways until you can be free again.

So i would recommend taking the D/s pressure off, completely, what are you holding on to if she is no longer consenting?

Its time to really listen to her, as an equal, and a partner, its time go to the beach or up to the mountains and spend a few days just with each other as people, away from the memories and the expectations of a broken dream, and support her in what she wants, needs and loves....and when she feels loved and supported and listened to, she may surprise you.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 12/22/2006 4:36:45 AM >

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(in reply to aSlavesLife)

Post #: 6

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 6:27:20 AM

RedSavageSlave

Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
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This happened to me.. I requested this..

The reason? Because I could not really articulate then what it was I needed..He was becoming very complacent about his Dominance over me..and I thought I was doing it to please Him..To take the pressure off of Him. I didnt think He wanted to be my Dom anymore..only my husband.

It took a very short amount of time for the relationship to be over from that point on.

I learned that I will NEVER request such a thing again..no matter the reason. If the relationship is not going well in the M/s and cannot be repaired..then the relationship is over.

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 7

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 7:30:43 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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More often people demand that vanilla relationships stop being vanilla and convert to Ds.

It seems like Erin knows more than I on this one and her advice is really good so I'll leave it at that.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RedSavageSlave)

Post #: 8

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 7:57:38 AM

afeathr

Posts: 248
Joined: 6/1/2006
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyP

shes tired....one can see it in. her eyes..if dynamics change, reevaluate

I would see that as a reason to discuss, not cut and run. There must be some other underlying issue that is causing her to reevaluate her desire to maintain the lifestyle they have chosen.

Yes, being a sub/slave is tiring... it's as much work for us as it is for Them (though I doubt many people really realize that is the case).

_____________________________

afeathr

-Going where the wind blows me...

(in reply to IvyP)

Post #: 9

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 8:07:54 AM

afeathr

Posts: 248
Joined: 6/1/2006
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

this has happened to me.

what caused me to request us to go vanilla was i lost faith in his ability to steward me, he dropped the ball on so many aspects of the dynamic that i felt abandoned by him and felt he was just getting the perks with out doing any of the work...

its funny in this situation though, he seemed completely oblivious that there was any deep problems. and yet i tried to explain for months that I felt like the balance of the dynamic was not in place and i could not do my part because he was not doing his....it fell on deaf ears.

I would have reevaluated the entire relationship rather than requesting to go vanilla. I am a sub - through and through - and cannot change who I am. If the man I am with is *not* a Dom - through and through - then we are not going to last long. (Hence the reason I have been married 3 times... vanilla is just *not* for me)

I guess maybe this highlights the difference between "playing" the lifestyle and "living" the lifestyle. I know that there are many that agree that what happens between T/them is not "playing" but the life that they lead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
also you say you cant trust her to make decisions in good judgment ...can you go in to detail about this?

I personally think that this statement lends itself to the fact that while in the D/s relationship He has total control over everything that she does. Perhaps He sees this as a way to prevent her from making fatal mistakes that could cause other problems?

To the OP:
Being in a D/s or M/s relationship is not a magic key or fixall for a relationship. This dynamic, if anything, will build up or break down quicker because of the *necessary* component of honesty and trust. If, at any point, those things are missing then there is a real issue that needs to be dealt with. Maybe this is where your sub is having difficulty... maybe not. But there *is* a reason that the question arose. I agree with others that it could be that she doesn't feel appreciated or necessary in her role - or perhaps she has decided that she is not really the sub that she thought she was... as time goes on our feelings can change - or desires eb and flow - and sometimes *sometimes* that means that we become different people that need to make grand changes to match our new desires.

_____________________________

afeathr

-Going where the wind blows me...

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 10

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 8:26:27 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: afeathr
To the OP:
Being in a D/s or M/s relationship is not a magic key or fixall for a relationship. This dynamic, if anything, will build up or break down quicker because of the *necessary* component of honesty and trust. If, at any point, those things are missing then there is a real issue that needs to be dealt with. Maybe this is where your sub is having difficulty... maybe not. But there *is* a reason that the question arose.

I believe that the only thing that is going to have a chance at making this relationship work is some real soul searching and honest communication....and even with those it may just be a case of too much bad water under the bridge or that they are not on the same page as far as what dynamic they ultimately desire.

This relationship has been riddled with problems that include violent outbursts, problems with alcohol and infidelity. The OP has stated that his girl is doing what she has always desired to do....yet she has stated that this is something the OP suggested and she thought she would give it a try "why not?". The relationship had a rocky foundation before "trying" this lifestyle because of ongoing infidelity. Trust and communication are the things that make the difference between success and failure in a relationship and it would appear that this relationship has neither. For there to be any possible chance at success....those things have to be given top priority. In my opinion of course........

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 12/22/2006 8:28:29 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to afeathr)

Post #: 11

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 10:48:30 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

Is she a submissive or a slave. since you mention she is a "sub" let her go and find another.

If she is a slave chain her ass down and remind her of her commitment

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to Supershovel83)

Post #: 12

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 11:23:10 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Supershovel83

I have a situation that has arisen. She wishes an end to what we have lived for over a year now and seeks to be vanilla again.

Talk to her, not as your sub but as your equal. Call a time out if you will. If she doesn't want to be your sub anymore, you have to decide if you are able to be vanilla. If not, move on.

quote:

I'm not able to do so and even if I could go back to that relationship model I could not put faith in her to maintain necessary key behaviors and posess the ability to demonstrate good judgement.

In my humble opinion - if you don't trust her good judgement the relationship is already fucked. You can't be around her all the time, unless you want to keep her from friends and family. If you don't trust her to make good judgements without her being your sub, you two probably should seperate. But then again, I simply wouldn't put up with a dominant who didn't have faith in my decision making abilities and thought I was incapable without him.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/22/2006 11:25:16 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Supershovel83)

Post #: 13

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/22/2006 11:54:15 AM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
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If my cat was run over by a dump truck, I'd feel bad about it - but I wouldn't bury it in an old indian cemetary. Admitting something's gone is painful, but refusing to admit it is even worse.

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 14

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/23/2006 11:25:31 AM

Devilslilsister

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
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i requested this also.....

First i requested that we end everything. On the grounds of we were not compatible, i saw no future, and many other things. The reason was an accumulation of many things over a period of time that i just couldnt take anymore. I wanted to be free of all of it and i had worked hard to get myself to a place where i could walk away.

That didnt work nor go over well.

A month later i requested to just end the M/s of the relationship and go vanilla. Figured it was a compromise! On the grounds of he was barely apart of my life (at that time) and i thought it absolutetly retarded to let another run MY life who had no fucking clue what was going on in it.   I wasnt going to let another human being who wasnt apart of my life, run it. Basically i was going to refuse to obey or submit as it was. Logical step - end the M/s - D/s.

That did not work nor go over well either. So he listened to what i had to say, keeping silent about things as he does, i had a cat catastrophe i had to deal with and when i got back he decided it was time to talk, catching me unaware as i thought he was going to go with it. LOL So he cuffed me, roped me and had a long talk with me. Most likely so i couldnt ignore what he had to say.   To sum it up : he basically told me things would change. He admitted to the fact that i had been hurt alot, validated my feelings, and told me "how" things would change.

So things have been given another chance. Things have changed dramatically, yet things backslide as all the reasons that i wanted to end things haunt me at times. I will tell you, that if you two get through this - its going to be a long road. I did not honestly, start to give my Master another chance until recently. I stayed prepared, I kept my distant, i did not let him be privy to my thoughts, i didnt let anything mean anything to me. I frankly stopped caring. Fuck it - i'll give you time to prove your words true, but think i'm just going to blindly walk back into something that was once shit for me?

That and things just dont go away. Hurt anger frustration ect doesnt just disappear. People cant just change feelings. They can ignore them. I had a hard time learning to care again.

So if you can convince her to give you another chance, dont expect things to flip back the way they used too. Expect a long road and lots of patience, understanding, and proving your words true constantly. Otherwise she'll be hitting you up again with a "lets go nilla".   If you're not up to that, then just let it go.

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to Voltare)

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RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/23/2006 1:10:33 PM

SmokingGun82

Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

If my cat was run over by a dump truck, I'd feel bad about it - but I wouldn't bury it in an old indian cemetary. Admitting something's gone is painful, but refusing to admit it is even worse.

I have to agree with Voltare... as usual. Sometimes things end. Sometimes dynamics change. And sometimes, no matter how much you love someone, no matter how much they love you, things don't work.

By all means, talk to her. Discuss whether this is a change of interests/cry for attention/whatever. Talk about all aspects of the relationship, and listen to what she says... but at the end of the day, be prepared for her to say "I don't want that" or some variation.

Best wishes in this.

MC

_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to Voltare)

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RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/23/2006 1:16:54 PM

aSlavesLife

Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

If my cat was run over by a dump truck, I'd feel bad about it - but I wouldn't bury it in an old indian cemetary. Admitting something's gone is painful, but refusing to admit it is even worse.

Pet Cemetary didn't have a happy ending? I've got to learn to pay attention to the non gore parts of horror stories!

Humor aside, you're absolutely right. Trying to resuscitate a failed relationship is always going to cause more pain and grief than just accepting that it is over and letting go would.

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 17

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/23/2006 9:33:45 PM

akbarbarian

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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I had three relationships where when problems developed, my submissive wanted to go vanilla. I let it happen rather than accept it was over. It was over at that point, and now I know better. I am not fulfilled in a vanilla relationship anyway but it's hard to seperate from someone you grew to love. It didn't make things better. It's just a way of pulling further away. I doubt it will fix things, anymore than agreeing to live together but drop the sex would as an example.

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(in reply to aSlavesLife)

Post #: 18

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/24/2006 2:38:23 PM

theRose4U

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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

I wish I had some words of advice to offer, but I don't. I had a similar situation on my hands several years ago when my M/s relationship ended over this sort of request from her. An 8 year relationship ended overnight because of it. And there was no question of her not being " into " BDSM and only doing it for my benefit, as she was the one who approached me with it. I was devastated because I loved her deeply. But I could no more switch to a vanilla relationship than an average person could deal with their spouse suddenly requesting a sex change. It is a package deal with me, part of what I am, and to ask me to abandon it? I had rather face the heartbreak of a shattered relationship than to lose the very essence of the relationship while continuing to dwell in its cold shadow.

I couldn't have said it better myself. My last boy called me at work in a full fledged hissy (thought he was hurt at first) and demanded that we "be 50/50 like other people where the guy runs the house">HA (I'm a dominant switch and he was a newbie sub). After I got over the idea that he wasn't hurt and what he'd said I tried to tell him that we'd discuss it when I got home. Rant rave piss moan more ultimatum. Explaination that I was at work and this discussion needed to be in a more appropriate setting didn't work so I finally said that he knew what I was when we met and if he didn't like that we had a problem only he could solve. We parted ways.

The reality is that if she's making this kind of ultimatum there are other problems in the relationship and this is just the red flag going up. Other posts have eluded to there being issues of some kind. In my mind part of having a "fully formed" sub is creating a support system for them so that they still have resources available when we aren't together. If she has issues with money, taxes might be a good time to put her together with a good financial planner and/or book-keeper that can help with spending habits. Creating a net so that she's looked after when the inevitable occurs is the wise thing to do.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to aSlavesLife)

Post #: 19

RE: Ever have your sub demand an end to D/s and want to... - 12/25/2006 7:42:08 PM

Supershovel83

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

Thanks all. So funny that I would read your posts tonight after just releasing her. I had embraced this relationship model and this lifestyle as it was very obviously needed. Not only by her but also by myself. On my part I tried to "fix stupid" by taking stupid out of the equation. On her part she really is by nature a very disorganized, irresponsible, immature and submissive person by upbringing. Unfortunately, there are a whole host of other obnoxious and less than attractive behaviors that also go along with that. I offered every noble and worthwhile attribute I had. Don't get me wrong... I won't claim to be perfect but I actually did bring a lot more to the table. On her part all she had to do was try to stop being a whory immature alcoholic. Easier said than done. In the end I leave this with a further huge debt, a regret for having improved her life and a sadness for having given my all to something so beautiful and natural with someone so beyond realization. My quest continues for a woman who is worthy of sharing the journey with. lol Guess I should have called it quits when she 1st cheated, pathologically lied and stole from me huh? Guess I'm not as smart as I'd like to believe sometimes. My thanks all!

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 20

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