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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 11:57:38 AM   
proudsub


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From: Washington
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quote:

ROFL. No, I just forgot a bracket for the quote feature and it skimmed together. If you look at my journal on my profile you'd see I'd had to have been doing a LOT of double-living for quite awhile in order to be her and me!


OH sorry, i was wondering.

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"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 1:15:02 PM   
FindingYou


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI

An abusive man (or woman) who has been given license via the 'mandate' of dominance to cure his/her abusive tendencies is akin to giving an alcoholic keys to a bar to cure his (or her) drinking. It is simply not going to happen. It takes a great deal of self awareness and self control. What he needs to do is enroll in anger management classes. If this is your husband that we are talkng about, you need to get in touch with some hotlines. It is against TOS to post them on the boards, but if you run a search using the key words DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE you will get the national tollfree # that can offer counseling on the phone, and put you in touch with people in your area. This is nothing to play with. Get yourself some help, tonight.



Thats a very insightfull observation...

I had an abusive brother-in-law (now divorced) but a tiger wont change his strippes, even when punished for his behavoir the same "games" continue.

When your in a relationship with an abusive person, the only rational thing to do is get out...

They can go to cousouling or see a shrink, but as I say, a tiger doesnt change his stripes...

Good luck to you...

(in reply to NATI)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 1:39:26 PM   
happypervert


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Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

Can an abusive husband channel that hostility into a more positive experience

The only ways I could think of someone chaneling hostility into something else would be in Jihad or suicide bombing or something like that. Even boxers may channel hostility against an opponent, then go home and smack the wife.

Anway, I think the question indicates you are in a desperate situation and grasping at straws to "fix" him. Sorry, but I think you're better off talking to professionals such as the ones BeachMystress provided.


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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 1:50:33 PM   
NATI


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quote:

They can go to cousouling or see a shrink, but as I say, a tiger doesnt change his stripes...


It is very unlikely for an abuser to change his behaviour. This is patterned, ingrained behaviour - and the abuser really needs to make a concerted effort that requires YEARS worth of therapy to do. Most don't.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

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(in reply to FindingYou)
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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 2:01:00 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert
I hate to advocate weird chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone … but they've always worked for me" . . . Hunter S. Thompson



Unfortunatly, those quit working for Hunter Thompson this past Sunday night. http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050221/NEWS/102210014 :-(


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Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 2:04:28 PM   
MistressDREAD


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quote:

Channeling Hostility

Hostility is not a part of Alternate Lifestyle Living
that does not involve concensual Sado and maocists
actions.
It is a part of personality disfunction and
the ability to channel such cannot be attained
by a person alone. Help is always needed
especially if the hostility is directed towards
the persons whom are involved with the
person personally and are in direct path of such
hostility. Abuse is never a one time event.
There are distint differances in a concensual and
nonconcensual action. Power and control in Our
Lifestyle are given not taken. Power and control
in an Hostile abusive situation are not given but
taken. physical, emotional, verbal, mental and
economical abuse are NOT a part of BDSM.
Dominating and OverPowering a soul hostilly
with out concent is against the law, Our Lifestyle
rules,regulations and protical. However if you
have gave permission for such to take place in
the hope that you could * save * this person and
change them would be moot unless you have the
experiance and training to help such issues.
The actions of abuse cannot be channeled and
are very hard to remove and train out and difuse.
Battering is a choice. It is used to gain negitive
power and negitive control over another person
against their will, life and physical being. Ohh and
one more thing need be said: ~~Whats Lovee got
to do got to do with it?? Whhhhaaaaaat Loveeeee
but a second hand emotion..............JMPO~
http://www.leavingabuse.com/what_is_abuse.html






Attachment (1)

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 2:38:49 PM   
Tristan


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I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions with very limited information. I'm not sure any meaningful advice can be given without a full understanding of what is meant by "abuse". I can see the possibilities of abuse being arguments that are related to relationship issues to "abuse" being actual domestic violence. I've known many people with many different ideas of "abuse". One friend recently left her husband because he was pressuring her to get a job...she actually considered this pressure "abusive". I've known others who were being physically beaten. Its not uncommon for "abuse" to be used in the context of a disagreement in a relationship especially if there is fustration and arguements involved.

In what ever case, I think its most productive to first look at how you are interacting with the situation. There may be things about yourself that you did not know you were doing. I think there are few couples in counseling who did not start by thinking they were both 100% right. Once you have explored your level of responsibility, then you can look at your partner. If it is a domestic abuse situation, then you are probably not going to get any where with counseling, and it would probably be best to leave the relationship. Again, I would be very very careful about giving your husband any more control over you if this is a domestic violence issue. If this is a relationship issue, who know...maybe it would work. You just need to solve your relationship issues first. Then take the bdsm stuff slow building on mutual trust and respect with lots of communication.

Tristan

(in reply to BeachMystress)
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RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 3:00:08 PM   
NATI


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quote:

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions with very limited information. I'm not sure any meaningful advice can be given without a full understanding of what is meant by "abuse".


I think the people responding are taking the OPs words at face value. It's not up to me to determine the level or degree of abuse taking place. It's up to me to answer with the language given. The language asks if an abusive man might change were he to assume a dominant role.

This is one area you can't be wishy-washy about. THe OP was given excellent, supportive information, and she SHOULD have been given that information.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Tristan)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 3:20:58 PM   
Tristan


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Reading mystnangle's profile and post, I tend to think this situation may be a little more complex than than it appears, but without any additional information, I'm only guessing. And without any additional information, I'm not sure that anyone can give mystnangel meaningful advice. On the other hand, I'm not saying that the advice given was wrong either. I'll wait until I know more before deciding.

(in reply to NATI)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 3:34:02 PM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions with very limited information.


Tristan,
Please do not see this as a personal affront but I have been professionally trained in dealing with the issues of domestic violence. Having worked in that field for many years, there are certain "clues" that you learn to pick up on and give value to. The fact that the OP referred to her partner as an "abusive husband" says quite alot on its own. However, that is not what caught me about her post. The following line is what spoke volumes to me.

"I need to make a decision, and need the advice of those wiser than I in a forum of obscurity and safety."

While I do understand your perspective, if indeed she is in a violent situation there is no point in delaying she get the information she needs as it could be the difference between surviving and not. If she is not in a situation that she feels is dangerous, she can simply disregard what has been said. If the latter were the case though I would not think she would be in need of advice in a forum of obscurity and safety.

The fact is that the answer is still the same. If her husband is indeed abusive, whether it be physically or verbally, it would be remiss of myself or anyone else to tell her that he could simply embrace dominance as a cure. Abusive people are abusive because they lack self control and the coping mechanisms that most of us have to get us through every day life. Proposing dominance to an abuser is giving him license to be more abusive.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 2/21/2005 4:43:27 PM >


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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Tristan)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 3:52:23 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
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quote:

"I need to make a decision, and need the advice of those wiser than I in a forum of obscurity and safety."


I absolutely agree with that and in her profile she mentions her husband's rage. That is a very telling word. She was reaching out, and bless her - I hope she took that information and used it. There is plenty there to make me think that this thread pointed her in the right direction.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 4:13:25 PM   
MistressDREAD


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Actually for Me this was the words that sent My cues off to the need for immediate help:
"Channeling Hostility"

this person is allready facing violent hostility and is asking how to direct or channel it elsewhere.

this simple sentance says it all, and I dident need to know the person nor look at their profile.

Ill go one step further and ask that the OP please click on these links and get help today:
http://www.dvcc.state.de.us/contact.html
http://www.delcode.state.de.us/title13/c015/index.htm

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 5:14:41 PM   
FangsNfeet


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The only good abusive husband is a DEAD abusive husband. It plays no part in BDSM when he's doing something that you do are not submitting yourself to.

I don't know if there is a Dr Phill for the BDSM community but I've never seen an Abusive Husband change. They may say stuff, try things, and work with a therapist but the usually don't change. Why keep risking it?



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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 5:17:56 PM   
fullokinks


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Angel,

Any psychologist will tell you that abuse is the result of insecurity, and nothing good can ever come of that. If someone is abusive they need help. Abuse and dominance have nothing in common, and BDSM is not the realm of mentally ill people who are acting out sick fantasies. Only healthy people should participate in BDSM relationships. Of course, the BDSM world is no different than any other, there are some sickos. I can't give advice for your particular situation, but don't confuse dominance and abuse.

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 5:19:36 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

The main and most obvious reason is that there is no abuse in a BDSM relationship. At least there shouldn't be any. Being a Dominant is all about control. Not exclusively control of the submissive, but control of self.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

- LA

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 8:17:17 PM   
mystnangel


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Joined: 2/18/2005
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I have been away for the day, and only got on line a short while ago. You can imagine my surprise at finding so many posts to my question. What touched me, though, was the outpouring of genuine concern and such introspective posts. I am in tears for many reasons, not the least of them because I didn't expect such caring from strangers. So, before anything else, I want to thank you from my inner depths. I suddenly don't feel as alone.

To clear up a few things, it took every ounce of courage I had to post the first time and, nearly as much, now. I know people view women like me as foolish doormats, and allowing what I have allowed shames me. Still, there are reasons. NOT EXCUSES. Reasons that muddle the mind and affect one's behavior.

I had been raised to stick things out, especially in marriage, no matter how awful the marriage might be. If you make a commitment, you keep it. I held that truth close to my heart to my own detriment. I also had childhood abuse and one gets to the point that one feels they don't deserve better. Or, that this is the way of life, the way of love. Plus, it isn't a constant thing. It's cycles that start as small ripples that grow.

In the beginning, one gets called stupid. In five years, the language grows worse and a shove ensues. By ten years, a slap emerges. Yet with enough distance between episodes to forgive, to let go, to believe it won't happen again. Getting the picture? Then, after I walked out for a brief spell, I was coaxed back when my husband found the Lord. We had nearly five blissful years. I had a miracle and fell in love once more.

However, the cycles have returned. Only, they skipped a few steps. I don't fear for my life, but there is violence, sudden rage, sudden retaliation for obscure reasons. I threatened to leave, so he has agreed to counseling and has had a few sessions. He wants to change. He wants me to stay. Despite everything, I love him. He is all I've known of love. Perhaps that is why I'm attracted to the lifestyle. Then again, since I haven't experienced much of it, what do I really know?

Next week he goes in for surgery, and I need to be here. He has no other family, but our grown daughter and myself. Our daughter lives far. However, I'm calling a hotline tomorrow morning for advice. Thank you for making it so easy for me to call by posting that information. You really are a special group.

I will respond to many of the messages, but not just now. Now, I'm trying to pretend my world is much better than it is. I'm trying not to fall apart. Again, thank you so much for your consideration, caring and kindness. I am overwhelmed.

Angel

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/21/2005 9:01:10 PM   
mistoferin


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Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
Angel,
I am glad to see you on tonight. I want you to know that I have saved your post here as I would like to go over it a bit and respond after I give it a bit of thought. One thing that I want you to know tonight is that you are not alone in this. You have no reason for shame and I do not view you in any of the ways that you stated. I have heard (and said myself) from many women exactly the things you have said tonight. I also understand about commitment and personally I think that it speaks of who you are and is a testament to you. I will be back to you on this very shortly. Remember, if you feel yourself to be in danger now or at any point....you must get away. Have a plan.....and a plan B. It does not hurt to be prepared. Hugs to you....from one who has been there. If you wish to contact me please do not hesitate.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/22/2005 12:18:33 AM   
GentleLady


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No mystnangel, those of us who have lived through these same experiences do not see you as a doormat and we know how difficult it can be to leave and how impossible it can be to stay. you are right though that you are not alone.

If the abuse started right off the bat and was major then we could walk out. But it never does. It starts slow and builds in the background and one day you wake up and realize the trap you are in. And the cycles go through stages just like you described. Each cycle is a little worse. Unfortunately those 'honeymoon' phases can be followed by a major increase in the level of violence. Even after My second husband started tearing the house apart and smashing things I did not believe he would use that violence against Me. I was wrong and barely escaped with My life.

I had already left many times before that incident. Each time he forced Me back by threatening My young daughter and My family members. I was at the point where I no longer cared if he killed Me. In fact I believed that he would and still moved out. I decided that if I was going to die...and I knew that eventually he would kill My body the same way he had killed My heart and soul, then I wanted to die free of him and living in My own home. That was many years ago now and, as you can see, I am still alive.

Please call one of the agencies tomorrow and follow their advice. you have nothing to lose.

Gentle Lady


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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Channeling Hostility - 2/22/2005 6:55:34 AM   
mistoferin


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To clear up a few things, it took every ounce of courage I had to post the first time and, nearly as much, now. I know people view women like me as foolish doormats, and allowing what I have allowed shames me. Still, there are reasons. NOT EXCUSES. Reasons that muddle the mind and affect one's behavior.

I am glad that you found the courage to reach out. It is the first step toward a better tomorrow. I understand that there are valid reasons and not excuses why we stay in circumstances that are harmful to us. I don’t see you as being foolish or a doormat. There is no reason for your shame (although I do understand it). I see you as a woman who is doing the best she can with the hand she was dealt.

I had been raised to stick things out, especially in marriage, no matter how awful the marriage might be. If you make a commitment, you keep it. I held that truth close to my heart to my own detriment. I also had childhood abuse and one gets to the point that one feels they don't deserve better. Or, that this is the way of life, the way of love. Plus, it isn't a constant thing. It's cycles that start as small ripples that grow.

I admire your dedication. It says a lot to me about the kind of person you are. It certainly tells me that you are a person who is deserving of much more than you are getting, contrary to how you may be feeling. I am sorry to hear that this has been the way of your life since childhood. I can assure you that love is nothing at all like the picture that has been painted for you. As far as it’s being inconsistent in nature…..the reality is that it is always present…..you are always waiting for the other shoe to fall. Why?…..because it has in the past and you know in the recesses of your mind that it will again….and again. Although we hold out hope that “this time” it’s really going to be better…..the truth is that it’s a lie that we tell ourselves so that we can maintain enough sanity to get us through the day.

In the beginning, one gets called stupid. In five years, the language grows worse and a shove ensues. By ten years, a slap emerges. Yet with enough distance between episodes to forgive, to let go, to believe it won't happen again. Getting the picture?

Oh I’ve got the picture! It is an absolutely textbook example of the intrinsic nature of Domestic Violence. Many instances, many apologies, many forgivenesses. The problem lies in that we can’t erase, we can’t forget and with each instance another small piece of us dies or is forever changed. Once trust is damaged, there will forever be a scar.

However, the cycles have returned. Only, they skipped a few steps. I don't fear for my life, but there is violence, sudden rage, sudden retaliation for obscure reasons.

Please understand that this is classic. He has no choice but to escalate his violence in order to get the desired result. Every time that it occurs and he wakes up the next day and you are still his wife, you have given him permission for the next time. You have told him that this is what you are willing to accept.

I threatened to leave, so he has agreed to counseling and has had a few sessions. He wants to change. He wants me to stay.

Great, he has agreed to go to counseling because you threatened him. Of course he doesn’t want his reality to change. Of course he doesn’t want you to leave. You have been like Old Faithful to him. If you left he might actually have to be accountable for himself. It would be much better however, if he were going to counseling because he plainly sees the flaws within himself and has a sincere desire to make the necessary changes. The fact that he is choosing to do so because of your threat tells the story though.

Despite everything, I love him. He is all I've known of love. Perhaps that is why I'm attracted to the lifestyle. Then again, since I haven't experienced much of it, what do I really know?

Well first off it is sometimes common for women who are submissive in nature to find themselves in abusive situations, especially in the early days of their understanding of their submission. An abusive relationship does fill some of the needs of the submissive, even if it is in a very unhealthy and destructive way. I believe that often submissives start out falling into these relationships before they fully understand their submissive needs and what Domination in it’s perfect form is all about. I think though that possibly you are searching for a way to justify the abuse by saying that it is his nature to be Dominant. I think that there are many abusive men out there who also engage in the same sort of rationalization. It does not however make it so. As was stated to you by so many, there is no room for abuse in a Dominant/submissive relationship. With Dominance there comes great responsibility. For an abusive man to use Dominance as a cover for his abuse is a recipe for disaster.

I do not discount even a little that you love this man as I am certain that your love for him is consuming. You certainly would not have stuck this out with a man you detested, even if you may detest some of the things he does. It is the reason that kept me in an abusive relationship also. In the beginning it is easy to ignore the slights and names. It is even easy to ignore the shoves...and the slaps. We keep telling ourselves that love conquers all and if I just loved him a little more, a little better….he would realize what he has and treat me in the way I should be treated. Well that is a nice dream…..one that ended for me at the business end of gun barrel to my head for a long and agonizing two hour period of being screamed at and beaten. Every moment wondering if it was to be my last. I never thought that he would ever be capable of such…..never. I had done just like you have up to that point, discounted, rationalized, justified and enabled every moment of abuse. When he finally went to bed that night, it was all I could do not to shoot him as he slept. Thank God I am a bigger person than that. You may not think that your situation could ever escalate to that point……I didn’t either…..but it did.

However, I'm calling a hotline tomorrow morning for advice. Now, I'm trying to pretend my world is much better than it is. I'm trying not to fall apart

I am glad that you have made the decision to call someone. You have many hard choices ahead of you and although you are the one who ultimately has to make those choices, you most certainly should have support to help you. I understand that for now you need to put the happy mask on that you present to the world and you may actually fool the majority with it…..but the one who really counts is under the mask….and you can’t fool her. If it gets to be too much and you fall apart….you know what….that’s OK! The world will not crack if you let some of this out…..but if you try to keep it all inside of you, you certainly will eventually. Once again, if you feel you just need to talk or rant, please do not hesitate to contact me.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mystnangel)
Profile   Post #: 39
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