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Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 6:30:23 PM

wingedangel

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/14/2006
Status: offline

I've been in an introspective mood today, indulging in an exploration of all the what-ifs. One relationship in particular has me thinking. It is far too late for that relationship, but as I am contemplating a new relationship at this time, I find I don't want to repeat the same mistakes I have in the past. I am sure this has been covered at some point in the forums, but I haven't been able to find anything, so please pardon me if this is a repeat.

I think my greatest regret is that I was too afraid to tell the Dominant in my life at that time how much I loved him. There were many occasions when he would gently ask what I was feeling, knowing full well I was very emotionally connected to him and likely was simply trying to draw out what he already knew I was thinking, but I just couldn't bring myself to verbalize it. I wish I hadn't been so timid. I'm not even sure what I was afraid of... it wasn't simply a fear of rejection, but more than likely past conditioning coming back to plague me. Still, if I could do it again, I think I would rather have taken the risk and told him I loved him and hoped for a deeper relationship.

So, my question to the Masters (and any subs/slaves who would be willing to share their experiences)... When is it appropriate for a sub to express her (or his, I am just writing from my own orientation here, not intending to leave anyone out) love for her Dominant? And, as a Dom/Master, how would you prefer such an expression to be presented? And I am sure this is unique to each relationship, but is there a point where 'just a sub' (nothing derogatory there, just differentiating it from more committed relationships) can become a potential life partner and how does that change evolve?

Post #: 1

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 6:40:56 PM

SmokingGun82

Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline

After a few major life events, I realized/decided that the right time to tell someone how you feel is as soon as possible, because you might never get another chance.

I don't always follow this advice... in fact, I'm not following it right now... but I do tend to remember it.

As for how, however feels right. It's so different for different people, but for me it'd be best just to hear it, since at times I can be really dense.

_____________________________

It frightens me, the awful truth of how sweet life can be.
- Bob Dylan

Proper capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my Uncle Jack off a horse" and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse."

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 2

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 6:47:37 PM

nikaa

Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline

I love you is such a powerful phrase and saying I love you is a big step in a romantic relationship regardless of the labels your wear. I remember sitting in total fear the first time I told my Master I loved him. I remember my hands feeling clammy and my heart racing. I remember wondering, “ Did I just screw up?” after the fact.

Declaring my love for him I did not know that I would not only loose him as a potential Master but my best friend, however terrified I was; I had to be true to myself. I owned myself that. I owned him that. I didn’t expect him to reciprocate, in truth I expected him to run because I didn’t know if he was mentally or emotionally ready for another relationship yet aalone Master/slave relationship.

That being said, I remember the first time my Master looked at me, caressed my cheek and said, “ I love you mine.” I will NEVER forget that moment. That phrase still makes my heart skip a beat and makes me grin from ear to ear but he had to say it when the time was right for him.

< Message edited by nikaa -- 12/25/2006 6:50:16 PM >

_____________________________

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika

The Cherokee legacy is that we are a people who face adversity, survive, adapt, prosper and excel.

Wakan Tankan Nici Un

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 3

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 7:06:30 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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My dominant found I loved him completely by accident. I was aware of it, but didn't tell him as I was waiting for the right time. Apprently the right time was in the middle of orgasm and I still don't remember it. He asked me afterwards if I loved him and I didn't have a clue why he was asking. Anyway it came out and after that I took to telling every night before we went to sleep that I loved him. One night, after saying "I love you" I closed my eyes and snuggled close and heard "I love you too" being murmured quietly.

I'm not sure if one can say when the best time is. It just has to come out on it's own. I certainly didn't want for him to find out that way but it worked out.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 4

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 7:57:56 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

When is it appropriate for a sub to express her (or his, I am just writing from my own orientation here, not intending to leave anyone out) love for her Dominant?

Anytime they want as long as it doesn't interfere with something that's higher priority.

quote:

And, as a Dom/Master, how would you prefer such an expression to be presented?

To make a list would take forever- my answer is whatever way is sincere and practical.

quote:

And I am sure this is unique to each relationship, but is there a point where 'just a sub' (nothing derogatory there, just differentiating it from more committed relationships) can become a potential life partner and how does that change evolve?

Most times it doesn't evolve- it's both from the start. If this is what you ultimately seek, you need to make that clear from the start. If this is what you think may occur, you need to make that clear from the start.

Honestly the best way to be open is to practice being open. I know it's a hot romantic fantasy to have that dom who just sweeps you away and whisks all your barriers down and everything will flood through in a torrent- but I'm afraid communication over years and building a long term commitment of any sort just isn't that easy. Start at the beginning- MAKE yourself say something about how you feel. Take accountability for your feelings and be responsible for your well being by communicating them clearly and frequently.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 5

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 9:00:32 PM

emdoub

Posts: 223
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Minnenipples, Minnesnowta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Honestly the best way to be open is to practice being open.

Um.... what she said.

Midnight Writer

_____________________________

Benevolent Dictator of TIES - Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations. If you're local to Mpls-St.Paul, MN, you may want to check us out. The web site is at http://www.ties-bdsm.org and the Munches are monthly.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 9:03:25 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wingedangel
When is it appropriate for a sub to express her (or his, I am just writing from my own orientation here, not intending to leave anyone out) love for her Dominant?

In all honesty, no one but your Dominant can properly answer this question. This is one of those questions to ask at the beginning.

quote:

And, as a Dom/Master, how would you prefer such an expression to be presented?

Again, this is an individualized thing. Ask this right after asking the above. I also recommend reading The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman...then asking your Dominant what means the most to them when saying "I love you": time, communication, service, sex or gifts.

quote:

And I am sure this is unique to each relationship, but is there a point where 'just a sub' (nothing derogatory there, just differentiating it from more committed relationships) can become a potential life partner and how does that change evolve?

How does someone become a life partner outside a Ds relationship? We are not any different as people.

When looking at relationship dynamics, the only two differences I see between "us" and "them" is that we 1) Acknowledge we desire highly structured relationships and 2) inside that structure, one person has consciously and willingly turned over authority to another. Yeah, we have kinky sex, but you can do that without a relationship dynamic.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 7

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/25/2006 10:16:10 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

For me, it is appropriate to say it when I feel it. Always.

Growing up, my Mother had a rule I still practice today. No one could go to bed without saying I love you, even if we were angry or upset with each other.

The night before my Dominant of 17 years died we had a phone conversation. I was out of town on business and he was at home. Somewhere at the end of the conversation we got onto a topic of people we loved in our lives. The very last words he ever spoke to me were: " There never has been any one in my life I have loved and adored as much as I do you. There never could be, Mia ". Those words have given me strenth many times and held me strong thru my grief.

So for me, my Mom was right, you never know when you close your eyes if they will open again, make sure the people you love know it.

mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 7:05:21 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

i would not want to put my money in a bank where there are only fees and no interest paid. i cannot make an emotional investment where there is no return on that investment. Therefore i cannot remember the last time i said the "L" word and shake off that feeling as soon as i recognize it.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 9

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 8:57:05 AM

HoustonDave

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline

Maybe I am oversimplifying here, but being a submissive does not make you sub-human. Love is a very real human emotion.
As for verbalizing that emotion to someone else, well, that's where it does get tricky. As easily is it would be to say that you would want to tell someone how you feel so they would be informed, that particular word does not normally pass our lips without some sort of motivation or hope of reciprocity behind it.
Maybe I don't have aany advicce or peaarls of wisdom to offer, I tend to be in the camp of "Say what you feel", because if you don't what you feel isn't likely to pass.

_____________________________

I'm not much of a man by the light of day
But by night I'm one hell of a lover.
- Dr. Frank N Furter

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 10

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 9:22:11 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I am not willing to put myself out on a limb. If I don't feel that there's a very good chance he feels the same, then I wouldn't say it. Saying I Love You is a major admission of vulnerability. And for myself, it's not something I feel comfortable being inequal with. If I'm going to be emotionally vulnerable, then he is also. If he isn't, then we wouldn't be compatible. In fact, we talked about this prior to meeting, as it is so important to me.

(in reply to HoustonDave)

Post #: 11

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 9:50:21 AM

MmakeMme

Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline

Pretend you are waltzing. Let Him lead. You follow. There is no dance without willing partners, and there are no dance partners without each learning the steps. Your steps, however, must be done to mirror His.

(However, if His dancing leaves you with nothing but bruised toes, it's time for a new dance partner.)

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 12

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 11:42:35 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

Pretend you are waltzing. Let Him lead. You follow. There is no dance without willing partners, and there are no dance partners without each learning the steps. Your steps, however, must be done to mirror His.

(However, if His dancing leaves you with nothing but bruised toes, it's time for a new dance partner.)

Beautifully said :-) ...

(in reply to MmakeMme)

Post #: 13

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 11:45:14 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I am required to tell him what I am thinking and feeling as it pertains to us at all times. This has been a rule from the start. So the answer to your question was already provided to me in the beginning.

Having said that, I did not want to love him. I did not want to admit to loving him. I was scared to death to love him. And I can remember clear as day when I finally told him I did. It was a few months into the relationship and he asked what was on my mind. I said I was afraid to tell him. He said "Tell me" and reminded me that I am required to tell him. I said "I am afraid to tell you that I love you." Ha! There's a chicken-shit way of saying it. He asked what I was afraid of, and I told him - I did not want to be that vulnerable to someone. He said, "Well do you?" I said "Yes." He said "Then I think you should say it." I trembled and cried and was all dramatic about it, and then said it: "I love you, Master, I love you." He asked me if the world fell apart for having said it? Did lightening strike me down and kill me? And if I was still scared for having said it? I said no, none of those things; rather I was relieved. So, it was out of my system, and I have been telling him repeatedly ever since.

The thing is, the emotion already exists. Not saying it does not deny its existance. Saying it brings it to light, and makes it ok and real. Saying it uncovered the big cloud I had placed over it, and made it not seem so ominous. It took the drama away.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 14

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 11:52:46 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
The thing is, the emotion already exists. Not saying it does not deny its existance. Saying it brings it to light, and makes it ok and real. Saying it uncovered the big cloud I had placed over it, and made it not seem so ominous. It took the drama away.

You're going to have to trust me that your answer isn't going to change my opinion of your master- but I'm curious to know whether he had/has those same feelings? Did he tell you he loved you before this conversation? Right after? After? Has not? Likely never will?

It's a pretty hard and lonely road to be the only one in a loving bond, and that tends to be very scary to a lot of people out there, more than "lightning and world ending."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 15

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 11:56:37 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I suppose different people are accustomed to different things. I believe that the difference is in how we approach relationships.

For myself, I can't have a half-way relationship. Only at the very beginning of my journey was I with someone strictly as a play partner. Since then, all of my experiences were with those I was in monogamous relationships with. I knew that going in, and they knew that going in. Things might not work after a first or second 'date', but there wasn't the weeks/months of 'dancing' that I read about here. I've never been afraid to 'jump in' with someone, and those I've been involved with have not shied away from the idea of meeting and getting involved. Granted, a couple of those relationships ran their course within a year, but most lasted several years.

So, in respect to love, I believe that for the submissives, the knowledge that they could be comfortable with me from a relationship standpoint made it easier for them to fall in love and to able to express it. It got to the point for me where I knew that usually around the two-week timeframe it would come out, if not sooner. I quickly came to equate a submissive's relationship with their Dom(me)/Master/Mistress with their love.

Understand, this is just my experience. I know that most who read this will do so in disbelief that things happen so quickly. I know that when I read most of the things here about events dragging without resolution I find it hard to believe that people actually call their experiences relationships. Just me.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 16

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 12:02:23 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
The thing is, the emotion already exists. Not saying it does not deny its existance. Saying it brings it to light, and makes it ok and real. Saying it uncovered the big cloud I had placed over it, and made it not seem so ominous. It took the drama away.

You're going to have to trust me that your answer isn't going to change my opinion of your master- but I'm curious to know whether he had/has those same feelings? Did he tell you he loved you before this conversation? Right after? After? Has not? Likely never will?

It's a pretty hard and lonely road to be the only one in a loving bond, and that tends to be very scary to a lot of people out there, more than "lightning and world ending."

LA you know I like and respect you, but that what anyone thinks of my Master is exactly that - what they think :)

I never asked him to love me, and never expected him to. I do not need to hear "I love you" in response to my expression of love. To me, that's like giving you a gift out of the joy of my heart and then expecting you to give me one back in return. I just don't operate that way. I did ask him from the start however, if he will take care of his property. That was all I wanted; to be in good hands.

He told me he loved me four months later. Shocked the hell out of me. He doesn't say it often - that's just now how he is. But he shows it all the time, which fulfills me greatly. When I tell him I love him, he will often reply with a very tender voice, saying, "I know you do, dear." and that alone makes me swoon. There has never been anything lonely for me about loving him. All I wanted was for him to know and believe that I do, and to accept it. Remember, my history does not have a lot of people in it who accepted my love. He gave me a place to love safely and completely, which meant far more to me than hearing the gushy words back. That he does love me is just absolutely delicious icing on a very sweet cake

Edited to add the clarification that my fear of telling him in the first place was not that he wouldn't love me back; it was that he would not accept my love for him, which would have been incredibly painful.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 12/26/2006 12:06:57 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 17

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 12:19:07 PM

mymasterssub69

Posts: 566
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

hi winged

i'm one of those types who fall in love slowly and cautiously yet there are times when i get head over heels and lose myself at the heat of the moment. after coming out of a bad relationship with a former Master, i shut myself away from any contact and offers until my current one found me. it seemed He knew how much i was still hurting and basically took our relationship slow without pressuring me in accepting Him as my Daddy. it took me about 2 months to finally admit my feelings for Him and said one night "I love you". i shyed away not knowing how He would react - He had expressed His love for and i would reply "i know" (my own way of returning my love without saying it). that's when i was certain and completely submitted myself to Him for life as His daughter. with constant communication to this day, i find myself falling deeper and deeper in love with Him.

i understand what you are going through. give yourself time and patience. when the moment is right (and you'll know), you will verbalize it to your Master. good luck.

_____________________________

there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.

collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 18

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 12:32:36 PM

angharad

Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline

Hmmm the L word. As I can't really define it, I wont use it.

(in reply to mymasterssub69)

Post #: 19

RE: Saying how you feel - 12/26/2006 3:59:36 PM

Bosn

Posts: 54
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline

Okay, now I know my lifestyle is different than ya'll. Since when did a Master have a "relationship" with his slaves? I realize in the Dom/sub world this may be okay since they both actually can switch it on and off (scening).
Oh well, I guess we all define our lives and how we live it in our own way.
Bosn

(in reply to angharad)

Post #: 20

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