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moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 8:30:54 PM   
submissivedevil


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		I've seperated from my first Dom,  the first D/s relationship I've ever had.  I'm old enough that its not the first split up I've been through.   So,  I know a broken heart always hurts and takes time to recover from.  

The thing is,  breaking up from a vanilla relationship is different, I'm not saying easier but,  there's definately more moving ahead options for you.  My meaning is as a submissive women,  well the giving aspect, you give so much, your totally vulnerble to that Dom.  Your lifes fantasy is becoming a reality.  What happens when you loose it? 

Finding the right person in a vanilla world is difficult,  finding the right Dom in this lifestyle seems almost impossible.  Maybe its my mind set.  I've never felt like such a failure.. Any suggestions?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 8:41:41 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		go to a spa, treat your self like a princess, and then go get a happy picture taken and add it here! you are so beautiful but this pic seems to send a wounded bird message you know?
 
what is that saying....as you act so shall you be.
 
PS i disagree with you assertion that breaking up with d/s is harder or easier....i think it sucks no matter what and you cant measure pain..thats just me.
 
anyway you are not a failure because you are not collared....there is no such thing as failure, everything you do gives you a result, its what you do with your results that defines your experiance...not your circumstances
 


_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 8:57:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The process really isn't different than you've experienced before.  This is both great and sucky.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 9:16:56 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		We've all heard that happiness comes from within. Well, unhappiness does, too. If you are happy on the inside, nothing can make you unhappy unless you give it that power. If you are unhappy on the inside, nothing can make you happy unless you give it that power. Focus on yourself for a while...be good to yourself. Know that you are beautiful just the way you are...and that, in time, you'll find someone who appreciates that, but only if you really appreciate it first.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 9:26:15 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There is nothing I can say that will make this any easier for you, been there though and I really empathize with the thoughts that you are having and I want to share my own experience with you so that you may know that there is a future for you with someone that is right for you, all you have to do is ask for it.

I had my first Ds relationship break up for good about a year ago, and at that time I grieved so much for it, my heart was broken. My spirit was broken too in some ways. I thought that it would be impossible to find what I was looking for because he was so much of what I thought i wanted, and I at first could not conceive of wanting someone else.

I made a list of 16 attributes I wanted in a mate, none of them had a thing to do with Ds, they all were about the mate I wanted on a compatiblity level... a sense of humor, intellect, social conscience, you know, his character. I made that list and looked at it every day for a couple of weeks and thought on it, and then I closed the word file I wrote it in and went on with my life. I joined some vanilla dating sites. Those dates did not go well, but hey, I am a trooper and I kept on keeping on.

I signed up for alt, I was emailed by my future Dominant the first night I was signed up. I dated others before I met him, I emailed dozens back and forth... it was not like I settled for the first dom that paid attention to me, I didn't, but I found him the first night I tried...smiles. We started emailing the first part of March, and we met in May, we are still seeing each other in a very intimate relationship that gives me much joy.

I relate this to you to give you hope, there will be others for you, or maybe there will be only one other for you (Im pulling for that for you!). Just write a list, check it twice (actually check it again and again, and add to it when something new comes to mind)... then let the universe bring your creation to you, and your creation is not the person, but the relationship that the two of you will create together. Believe it is possible, anything can happen.

I also wanted to share with you a link about grieving with poems that may be uplifting to you and help you process some of what you are feeling.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/sur/srtoc.htm

I wish you luck

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 9:33:49 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think it's important to give yourself some processing time when a relationship ends.  Regardless of the reasons or circumstances, it can be difficult to move away from someone having control in your life, but it can also be a liberating experience (if you choose to make it one), as you are again your own best friend, for better or for worse.  You've been given some good advice.  Good luck.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 9:47:28 PM   
submissivedevil


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you!

It seems like he holds all the keys to me.  It seems like I was always trying desperately for his approval and in that he stole something from me.  I was a strong women once and now I feel so weak.  He took my strength my self worth and a great deal of me.
I'm working hard to regain some of the things lost!  His constant awareness of my age, his constant comparing of me to others, much younger women.  Well it took its toll on me.  I stayed to long in a situation where I couldn't win.  I'm a fighter, a person who always tries to prove themself and win.  I never got off the starting block in fact I got denied the chance to start.  Why it took me so long to see that, is beyond me.  Looking back, I let him beat me up.  I let him take my self worth. I don't know why.
Everyday is different for me right now.  Somedays I feel a sense of relief that its over.  Somedays I'm full of regret.  Regret for what, I never had anything with him.  Thats the confusing part. 
Life will go on but learning from this experience seems so empty. The only thing I learned is that I'm to old for him, to unappealing.  What else is there.  I wish I could erase the last 2 years.
I will write the list you described.  Thank you for spending the time to share your experiences with me. 
Mouse

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/28/2006 11:11:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Looking at your profile pictures you are a very lovely lady with a fine figure. Anyone that demeans you to get control over you is not someone you need. Katy is right, you will need time to process what has happened to you, and to grieve it, but that does not mean that you have to shut yourself off from the world, give up hope. I refused to allow my former dominant to continue to control me by giving him my power in the form of letting his lack of love for me affect my self love. I felt too worthy of love to allow that to happen. It is your own self worth that needs to be built, and no one else can do that but you.

But I would not let the grass grow under my feet, or lick my wounds too long, life is just too short. Find lots of people to talk to, explore with, and if that person that treats you with the respect, dignity, and love you deserve comes along, he will stick around while you do your final healing.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 4:06:36 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivedevil

Thank you!

Looking back, I let him beat me up.  I let him take my self worth. I don't know why....
...The only thing I learned is that I'm to old for him, to unappealing.  What else is there. 


For some reason, I collect in my head, little snippets of things I hear from strange places, and when I need them - even if the situations are different - they come pouring out. (I should play trivial pursuit.) As I read your post, they came pouring out all over again, so here are my little pieces of advice. Take them as you may.

I'm not going to talk about the loneliness portion of a break up. You and I both know that just takes time. I'm talking about the part you describe about someone "taking" your sense of self-worth, and smartly, how you realize he didn't just take it - you gave it. (We can be so fooled sometimes can't we? I say this with all empathy.)

I've been there, done that, and here are some of the things that have helped me:

Music: There are a LOT of self-affirming songs out there. Find the, get them and listen to them daily. Learn the words and sing them loudly. 

(This advice comes straight from my mother who told me that if I was believing all the negative things he said about me, then it was only because I'd heard them for so long. She was also pissed off at me because in her words, "I've been telling you since you were a baby how great you are and you let some fool tell you how horrible you are and you believed HIM over me?!") Know what? She had a point. For some reason, we're all just aching to believe the negative and have to have the positive proven to us. Makes no sense does it?

Singing along with the songs will help to let you hear - FROM YOU - how good you really are:

My suggestions:

Tanya Tucker: "Down to my Last Teardrop." (My favorite line in the song - and there are many. "I've been rearranging chairs on a ship that's going down." The refrain is wonderful:

"And I know that you'll be thinkin' I'll be goin' out of my mind
Crying you a river that winds and winds and winds
Oh but baby I'm down to my last teardrop this time

I don't care a hoot or what you're doin'
Ain't gonna be no more boohooin'
Baby this time I swear it's the truth
I ain't gonna cry no more for you"

Chumbawumba: (Yea, it's a beer drinking song, but the refrain is great!)

I get knocked down
But I get up again
You're never going to keep me down

And my all time favorite:

Bette Midler!
Her song "I'm Beautiful" should be played every single day.
It should begin and end your day. Sing loudly in front of a mirror till you believe. The mirror part is so that you start connecting the the words to the song with the person you see in your mirror. Believe me. At first, you'll do this and think it's ridiculous, but keep it up. It works. You are beautiful dammit! - Now you just have to believe it.

Here's the link to the lyrics. Every one of the lines in the song are just too damn good

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bettemidler/imbeautiful.html

These are my favorites. If they don't work for you, find your own and sing them till you believe them. Cry through them, get angry through them, use them to start looking at yourself as a beautiful woman again, because that's what you are. Move with them till you dance to them. Scream them out in the car as you drive (works best for Chumbawumba's song). Eventually, you will believe. You just have to replace his negative words with things that are positive.

Words themselves: I have a friend who is a pretty well known domme around the country - I say this because I'm betting more than me have heard her say this before. I once made the mistake of doing something in error and then saying "I'm sorry" to her. To say she was not happy is a bit of an understatement, but it wasn't about what I did. She told me - and I'm passing it on to you - never EVER say "I'm sorry." If you do something wrong, you can apologize but never ever say "I'm sorry." Even without realizing it, the words "I'm sorry" are full of negative energy. You are not a sorry person. You may be apologizing for something, but you are not a sorry person. Don't allow - and don't participate in things that focus negative energy in your direction. The goal here is to get rid of all that.

Finally, Sandi Shackleford, playing the Edna, mother of Julia Roberts' character in the movie Sleeping with the Enemy said it best. She was talking about Julia Roberts' abusive husband when she said (I'm paraphrasing, but I used to have this memorized and I'd repeat it to myself daily as well.) "He tried to destroy you, but what really made him mad is that he could never touch YOU - the part inside of you that has always been and will always be YOU." You just have to believe.

One last thing. If you believe yourself to be a mouse, you will be. I'd suggest changing your name so that it's also more self-affirming. Typing that, seeing it in print, and knowing it's you helps.

I have no idea if these things will work for you. I know they worked for me. I have a few successes in my life: my 3 children, the fact that I finished school even when my husband said I was too stupid to do it, and the fact that when I began this little journey to myself, I  thoroughly believed I was lower than the carpet on the ground. But I discovered, as you have for yourself, that he couldn't take what I didn't give him, and he couldn't keep what I was going to take back. So, I took me back - in little steps - each day affirming to myself that I was worth more, deserved more, and that the only person who was going to "give" me more - was me.

As hard as it is, I urge you to come to that same realization that you are worth more, and deserve more. The songs helped for me. I hope they help you.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 12/29/2006 4:26:19 AM >

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 4:24:45 AM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		There is only one thing I would say, and I say it from bitter experience.

Take time out, dont try for a relationship "on the bounce". Doing that can be bad enough as a vanilla thing, as a submissive it puts you in an exceedingly vulnerable position. Having read a previous post by you that appears to explain the reason for the relationship breakdown I would say it could make you doubly exceedingly vulnerable.

Other than that I would say the same as others, pamper yourself for a while, dont give up, decide what you want to look for and enter the fray once more a little wiser, a little stronger, and perhaps even a little more eager now that you are sure the lifestyle if for you now that you have had a taste.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 4:53:04 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It seems like he holds all the keys to me.  It seems like I was always trying desperately for his approval and in that he stole something from me. 


He does, you are and he did. Been there, done that and it damn near killed me... literally. You are still trying to win his approval because you don't trust your own anymore, he's made you believe that you can NOT believe yourself. That's bullshit. My suggestion? Forget all the "happy-happy-joy-joy" stuff. Get dolled up, I mean to the nines (ok, not formal... let's not get silly with it) and go to the grocery. Yeah, the grocery, or better yet, a hardware store. Walk with your back straight, even strides and make sure you are showing off your best assets. I know how silly it sounds but I do it when I'm feeling down.. I don't go to do any major shopping... just a few things. But take your time getting them. Take notice of the people around you...nothing boosts your self-esteem better then men watching you walk by and women giving you a hard look as you do... believe me.. you'll go home feeling a lot better.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 5:50:38 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

It seems like he holds all the keys to me.  It seems like I was always trying desperately for his approval and in that he stole something from me. 


He does, you are and he did. Been there, done that and it damn near killed me... literally. You are still trying to win his approval because you don't trust your own anymore, he's made you believe that you can NOT believe yourself. That's bullshit. My suggestion? Forget all the "happy-happy-joy-joy" stuff. Get dolled up, I mean to the nines (ok, not formal... let's not get silly with it) and go to the grocery. Yeah, the grocery, or better yet, a hardware store. Walk with your back straight, even strides and make sure you are showing off your best assets. I know how silly it sounds but I do it when I'm feeling down.. I don't go to do any major shopping... just a few things. But take your time getting them. Take notice of the people around you...nothing boosts your self-esteem better then men watching you walk by and women giving you a hard look as you do... believe me.. you'll go home feeling a lot better.
 
Jewel


the happy-happy-joy-joy stuff, sitting up straight, walking tall, lieing to yourself until you believe  you are worthy enough to go shopping while looking your best and doing it anyway...it's ALL part of the process.

You'll find the way that works for you.

By the way...when you're all dolled up and headed to the store, may I suggest a new picture of you? Looking at yourself beat down is a sure-fire way of continuing the idea that you are beat down. Looking at yourself sitting tall and being YOU is a great way of stopping the beat down process.

It's all just steps on the way to being you again.

juliet

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 6:16:06 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I agree, it's more intense to get into a BDSM relationship--and that means it's more intense to get out of one, too.  I think the main reason is that vanillas don't always give all of themselves in their relationships.  Some do, but most don't.  In a BDSM relationship, you're giving the other person something very personal, something that goes to the core of who you are.  It's a lot harder to get back to normal after something like that ends.

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivedevil

The thing is,  breaking up from a vanilla relationship is different, I'm not saying easier but,  there's definately more moving ahead options for you.  My meaning is as a submissive women,  well the giving aspect, you give so much, your totally vulnerble to that Dom.  Your lifes fantasy is becoming a reality.  What happens when you loose it?

(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 6:21:57 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		It's ok to feel weak.  It's ok to feel loss.  It's ok to feel bad.  It's not ok to wallow in self-misery for any longer than you can consume two bottles of Jack (two fifths bottles, not a handle.)  Drink up, work, enjoy your family, carpe diem.  Quietly put a mark on your calander for April 1st.  I'll betcha said two bottles of Jack that you'll have met someone interesting (if not permanent) by then.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 6:48:54 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		You are an attractive woman. This may sound superficial of me, but for Christmas, I got a $150 gift certificate to a spa and salon, and today I am using it - because I've been feeling down lately and pampering myself always seems to pick me up.

I think I will put the streaks back in my hair - right now it's a medium auburn color. And get it trimmed just so it's not so shaggy, even though I am trying to grow it out.

Also get a French manicure. I may also buy myself some new clothers (something I almost never do).

I also decided on the spur of the moment to have a small New Year's Eve party at my house. I don't feel very up to decorating, etc., so I just ordered some catered food trays and will buy some champagne and other snacks tommorrow. I know when the people show up at my house, I will feel like ringing in the New Year more than I feel like it now. 

You may not feel like throwing a party (it can be quite a job) - but just going out with a friend for lunch or something might help.

I also found it can help to actually write down on paper all of the times you remember this person hurting you in a bad way (non-consensual), whether they "knew they were doing it", or whether it was "their fault" or not. I did that, and it convinced me I am not really missing much by grieving over my ex-Dominant, and it's definitley time to '"move on" emotionally, because it might hinder my capacity to be giving toward someone else (I recently broke up with someone, too). Also just because it's not good for me (even dangerous, as I am on anti-depressants anyway, and have been for over 25 years) to feel very sad for too long.

My heart goes out to you. Truly. Things will be brighter each day. And pretty soon, you will feel better. I promise. I have a quotation I always read when I am feeling down. I will share it with you.

"Nothing is worth more than this day." (Goethe)

It's a simple idea, sure, but - there are some times I truly did not realize this, and let a beautiful day pass me by. I know it hurts. I really do. It can sometimes seem inbearable. But - it will pass. Truly it will.

Grieving is necessary - but - even if I don't feel like it particularly, sometimes I find I need to push myself to just move forward and realize what a gift life really is - especially when I am really depressed. It sometimes takes awhile, but eventually it always works. Cry for awhile. Grieve. And then just decide - and it may take everything you've got, but do it anyway - to move on. You probably won't feel much like doing it. But - You can do this!

Good luck.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/29/2006 7:12:13 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 7:21:44 AM   
Yourangelic1


Posts: 42
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		My heart goes out to you, and i hope that you start feeling better soon. To say i hope you feel more like yourself again, i can understand that you probably dont even know what yourself is. i am in the midst of my first failing D/s relationship and it literally is almost killing me. i can so empathize with you and know you must be totally lost.
i do agree with some others here that we do hold our own happiness within ourselves, but when we put our entire life into something, and we place all of our soul in the hands of another, retreiving it can be a quite difficult task. i really cannot give too much advice, as i am not doing to good at the moving on process myself. i can only offer a hugg, and my sincere apologies that you were treated in such a manner. No one should have to.
Please take care of yourself, and know that each and every one of us has worth..

angelic

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 7:22:39 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivedevil

I've seperated from my first Dom,  the first D/s relationship I've ever had.  I'm old enough that its not the first split up I've been through.   So,  I know a broken heart always hurts and takes time to recover from.  

The thing is,  breaking up from a vanilla relationship is different, I'm not saying easier but,  there's definately more moving ahead options for you.  My meaning is as a submissive women,  well the giving aspect, you give so much, your totally vulnerble to that Dom.  Your lifes fantasy is becoming a reality.  What happens when you loose it? 

Finding the right person in a vanilla world is difficult,  finding the right Dom in this lifestyle seems almost impossible.  Maybe its my mind set.  I've never felt like such a failure.. Any suggestions?


I felt like a failure too when my first Dom ended the relationship.  I felt like I wasn't good enough, or submissive enough or right enough or sexy enough. Years later, (Im a slow learner) I figured out that it had nothing to do with my deficiencies.  I was an ass-kicking submissive to him, but he wasn't 'feeling it' for me. 
So anyway, yeah, it was very hard when it ended because we get used to having that control in our lives; even if it's subtle.  
Now that it's over, it's just a matter of re-adjusting the perceptions of yourself. And its a good experience in that you will be a self-assured, self-reliant woman with self-esteem, stronger than you were before, which I think, will be more likely to attract "Master Right" when he does come along.
As to where or how to find him---I dont know.  I just know that Im learning to keep a more open mind and be more considerate that something that isn't my ideal just may be my ideal if I give it a chance.  In other words, dont lower your standards, but maybe expand your considerations. 

Good luck to you :) 

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to submissivedevil)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/29/2006 3:15:42 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		We give our power away in these things. now, you have to take it back and heal before taking another run at things.

Just like in vanillaland, it's part of the deal to feel like a failure and not enough. You are just playing with a different set of circumstances and took more risks with yourself, becoming more vulnerable than you might have in vanillaland.

Give yourself time to heal, see your friends and family to remind yourself that you really are OK the way you are.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/30/2006 10:31:23 AM   
submissivedevil


Posts: 26
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know what it is about this lifestyle that is so important to me. I lived without it for 46 years!  Finding this site and that man changed my life.  At one point in my life being in a relationship was enough, now I've added this.  Its hard enough to find a vanilla relationship that works.  I guess I'm always looking for the most, never satisfied with the least.  LOL.
Its difficult to explain what drives me these days.   Somedays being alone is the best medicine for me but this lifestyle is never far from my mind.  I'm feeling better somewhat stronger.  I will move on.
Hopefully what i've found here will become a good part of my life instead of just a sad memory.   Thank you  ALL

(in reply to classykindasassy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: moving on afterwards - 12/30/2006 11:47:20 AM   
beticat


Posts: 30
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline 		What helped me in getting out of a relationship (6 years) where my needs weren't being met was a song.
In that list that has already been suggested, I would include 'You Had Me' by Joss Stone.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jossstone/youhadme.html

I listened to this song on repeat in the car, on the PC, for weeks.
*hugs*
Cat


< Message edited by beticat -- 12/30/2006 11:53:15 AM >

_____________________________

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You get what you need
-Rolling Stones

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