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RobertCloud -> RE: How do you feel about Gor? (1/4/2007 7:08:30 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edana
Posted by Leonidas, who never will remember to make sure that his slave wasn't the last one logged in.
ORIGINAL: RobertCloud
OMG... Where have you been? You have not been reading the news in the last ten years have you?
The incident in Syracuse, NY where a man was found to have an underground bunker and was training women to be sex slaves. He had captured them off the streets. He was a self-proclaimed Gorean Master, and when he was found he was training the kajira in their positions. <snip>
Sorry, this is just plain not true. I actually followed this case very closely because early on it sounded as if this guy might have been a misguided Gorean. Gor and Gorean were never associated with him, at all. If anyone has a credible source to the contrary, I'd love to see it, but again, I followed this case closely end to end, and no association was ever reported.
I too have followed this case as I live less than three hours from the location it took place. I will say an admit it is possible I have errored on this one, because I cannot find a single article to support or one that even refers to the case at all. All of the articles are too old for the papers, and no one kept it up on a blog or personal page that I have been able to find, so I cannot support my comments. I still remember the comments being made that he claimed to be Gorean. Yet, those could be from someone else having said something to me about the case at the time and having studied the psychology of memories I will admit that it is possible those memories have overlapped. I will give you this one.
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There is the self-proclaimed Gorean Master in Arizona that killed three of his slaves because they did not satisfy him anymore and it was his right. They were after all only chattel.
The only case that I know about that is even remotely like this is the SlaveMaster case. He was the guy who sealed his victims in 55 gallon drums. I know about this case because one of the women who was killed was a friend of one of my slaves. If that is the case you're talking about, again, this is just plain false. SlaveMaster never professed to be Gorean, and was never associated with Goreans. He did troll online BDSM chatrooms looking for victims.
No I am NOT referring to the SlaveMaster. You are very right he never claimed to have anything to do with Gor. This occurred aboutyears before he was known about and this guy was not a serial killer. I cannot find any articles so there is no way to prove it. What I remember most about this one is it was one of my first contacts with the word GOR. I don't even think he found his slaves online, that I cannot remember. I just remember that when they caught him he had no remorse and that he said it was his right, he was their Master and they had failed to please him. He later claimed he followed the ways set forth by a series of books. It was a friend of mine that pointed out the books to me and I read the newspaper articles.
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There was the incident in England recently where a group was found having converted an underground air-raid shelter into a training ground. They had kidnapped over 25 women and were training them to be kajira. They called themselves the Gorean League of Britain.
Never heard of this one. Closest I've heard of was the woman who told a friend in the US that she was with some Goreans in England, and wanted to come home, but had burned her passport and return ticket. The police were called and sent to the location, but could find no evidence of a crime. No allegation of kidnapping was ever made. Again, if you have some credible source for this, I'd love to hear it, but if it's like the first story you listed, sorry, but I'm dubious based on your grasp of the facts so far.
You are speaking of a group that calls themselves the Kaotians. I did find that article.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=56732a85-7ecc-4b27-92eb-d0fbee96658b&k=17873 . But again that was not the case I was referring to, and again I cannot find the links. I do hate it that old news gets wiped out from news sources but they only have so much space and they do store it so maybe someday it will be back as technology improves, so until then I will have to give you this one too.
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I personally have been contacted by a woman on this site that forces people into financial desitution and then gives them the only way out by forcing them to submit themselves as slaves into their Gorean Group. To prove their devotion to their group they have to perform some sort of initiation. In the case that I was contacted in they were trying to think of a torture to perform on this woman that would force her to then torture her own 14 year old daughter to prove her loyalty.
Bullshit. Not to put too fine a point on it. I have been associated with Goreans for nearly 20 years, and I have never run across a group that operates in a fashion even remotely similar to this. The closest would be some of the earliest biker gangs who claimed to be "Gorean", but that was way before your time, skippy. I don't know if someone fed you a line of crap, or if you are taking a story and "embelishing" as with the first story you reported, but either way, you are speaking out of some orafice that is not associated with your face now.
This one I will not give you. This one did happen, it happened here on CollarMe, and they carried it over into a Yahoo IM. The woman told me in quite detail why the first woman had come to them and accepted her slavery. She had kept the fact of her daughter out of it for sometime. At first I had assumed that she was the woman and she was telling me either abuse that had been done to her or abuse she had been forced to do at some time. I did not realize it was a current situation. She kept talking and was informing me of quite a few details saying that the town was in Russia, yet her English was very exceptional and she was not making any of the standard mistakes that someone from another country makes when speaking English.
Then she dropped the bomb, she askd me directly what I thought would be a torture that would convince the woman to torture her own daughter. I realized then that she was fishing. I told her that I could easily come up with hundreds of such ideas that would work but I would not tell her because I had no way of knowing that she was not one of the villagers or would not carry it to one of the Elders of the village and therefore the 14 year old girl would wind up being tortured because of my suggestion and I would not do that.
She abruptly ended the conversation. Now, you can call me a liar all you wish, you do not know me well enough to do so. You have no right to do so. For one thing, that is something I do not do. I may make errors, and when I do I will admit to them, as above, I may have mixed two memories on the first. On the others, I cannot find articles so I will not claim they are true but I will not deny they are true either. For at this point I cannot prove them either way.
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No, you are right, NOT ALL GOREANS force people into collars, but I personally have known some that have, and you can read the papers every so often and find stories like these where others have. And you can NEVER tell me that a CHILD raised in a Gorean family that is raped as a child and brought up into the lifestyle before she is even 10 years of age was given a choice in the matter.
About like you personally know the facts of the Pennsylvania case?
First of all, nothing was ever said about Pennsylvania. Syracuse is in NY, I live three to four hours from there, so I do know it rather well, the other case I never said where it took place. Secondly, yes, I do know the facts of that case personally, I know the person rather well. They are a very good friend of mine and have been for over four years. I helped them while they were going through their therapy, I sat up many nights with them on the phone and listened to them cry as they related to me what was done to them. I have known several people like this, not just one. Several, that I have personally sat up with suicide watch for. So, how many lives have you saved? I have saved more than a dozen by being there for people from abusive Gorean relationships... Most of them had been abused as children by their own parents who were Gorean. One was SOLD when she was 14.
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I cannot tell you how many of these stories I have heard and of these stories I have heard, yes some are in regular BDSM families, but by far they are outnumbered by families that are Gorean by more than 10 to 1. I even know of one incident where the child was seven and when the police asked her if she knew what a Gorean Bow was, she showed them.
Got any evidence (from someone a little more credible than you, at this point, please) of this? I'd love to see it. Educate me.
This one I will take more time to look for. Again I may have to give it to you for it has been about three years, but I will do all I can to find it. As far as my credibility... Here is one that does show GOREAN influence..
http://www.thecrimeweb.com/John%20Robinson.htm
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The Gorean Bow is NOT EVEN IN THE BOOKS. It is strictly a sexual use position created by online players and is nothing but a perversion of what the books offered.
Marauders of Gor, page 261. Any other wild assertions you'd like to make while you're at it?
Okay, I admit, I do stand corrected on this one, and I will also tell everyone that have told me this one that they are wrong. I have only read the books once. I did not recall reading it. Thank you for correcting my error.
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These are some of the reasons I left Gor. The worst part about it is that though Goreans will say they are not BDSM and BDSMers will say that Goreans are not BDSM... the outside world sees them as the same thing. So whenever a Gorean does one of these Monstrous things it makes the whole BDSM lifestyle look as bad, and BDSM had nothing to do with it. If Gor is NOT BDSM then leave the BDSM boards and find your own... or admit you are a subbranch of BDSM and get over it.
I'd be willing to wager at this point that the reason you "left Gor" is that you have trouble stringing two true statements together, and you wore out your welcome pretty fast. So, now you're here to spread the gospel according to Robert. Nice.
No, I left Gor, because of the attitude that you can take a FICTIONAL book and make it a REAL life. This is called in Psychological terms a Psychosis. Many of the People inside of the Gorean lifestyle truly deserve to be committed, unfortunately there are no longer the insane asylums like there used to be.
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To the Regulars of the Ask a Mistress Section: Sorry to barge into your section again, but this one was just a little too egregious to let pass without comment. I hope that this guy's post, and my reply, don't derail your thread.
No, you won't derail the thread, you only helped to serve a point. I had already told one person that had asked for links that I may or may not be able to find them because of the time since they had occurred. This still does not excuse the Gorean behaviour, and attitude that they are superior, and try to preach their gospel to everyone. Goreans for the most part are rude, and misguided individuals. They do not even see the evidences with their own eyes.
As far as the quote from John Norman in Book 26. Did you even read Book 1? John Norman has written these books from day one as if Gor is a real planet. For him to make a comment like that in Book 26 would only follow the CHARACTER John Norman, not the Professor Lange's philosophy.
Additionally, if you are going to quote someone, do him a favor and spell his words correctly.
To the moderator of this Forum. I will NOT be posting in this forum any further except to post a link to the one incident above if I can find it. Beyond that this forum is a mute point to me. It has become a Gor bash BDSM a BDSM bash Gor fest and I will not participate any further. If Leonidas, thinks it is because of his post to me he is mistaken, I had already planned not to post any further but this post required my attention.
I however, will not be drawn into anymore of these conflicts and I do not care if my integrity is called to question, for I know who I am and those that know me know who I am. I bare the scars of my truths and my abuses, and I bare the witnesses of what has happened to me and to others in the name of Gor. Gor was beautiful, it has become an abomination.
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