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RE: Losing My Submission - 1/5/2007 2:52:24 PM   
Emperor1956


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I thought I had a handle on this, but pffffft it slipped away.  I've been thinking about this thread for a while, and while I was thinking, things happened (that is all too common in my life).  So, is it that katy (and tickee, who posted something similar I recall) and agirl lost their submission, or that they lost the person to whom they submitted?   Or both?

I know katy's post was in part occasioned by the end of a relationship, but I took the op to mean that along with the change in relationship was a change in her self -- that she found that being submissive was no longer a "key" to her self.  And she missed that part of her self (why else would you talk of loss?)  Yet many of the replies have assumed that it was the loss of the person that caused the loss of submission.

I didn't take it that way.  I have lost a submissive*, and when that happened, I sometimes lost my desire/will/need to be dominant.  I did not lose my "Dominance", though.  On the other hand, I have had periods in my life when it seemed that I was done with it all, regardless of the circumstances of my personal relationships.  There was one time in my life that I thought being Dominant was a "phase" I was going through, and she and I parted because I was done with "all that".  It turned out not to be true for me.  I think it was close, though, and it is entirely possible that I could have gone forward in my life and not sought out another D/s relationship.  So I can understand that a person might reorient themselves away from power exchange relationships entirely (and no, I don't think its innate and that we are born to be  D, or  s or neutral).

What I think is that all of us, having explored areas of power, sex and relationships that are at the fringe of accepted society, have a hard time going back to the mainstream.

This starts to get rather Bishop Berkeley-ish (you know "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it...)   Do people believe that if there was NO WAY to express their orientation -- no outlet to be Dom or sub -- they would still be that orientation?  (LA already said that she would, that she'd be a switch if she was the last person on earth...and all I can figure is that means she'd spend the rest of her days spanking herself silly!  not that there's anything wrong, there).  When someone tells me she's lost her submission, I take it to mean she's in transition about what she values, and what she seeks. 

E.

________________________
*Lost a submissive, you say?  That's so...careless!  But in the context of this thread you know what I mean.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/5/2007 2:56:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956
(LA already said that she would, that she'd be a switch if she was the last person on earth...and all I can figure is that means she'd spend the rest of her days spanking herself silly!  not that there's anything wrong, there).  When someone tells me she's lost her submission, I take it to mean she's in transition about what she values, and what she seeks. 

E.

ROFL no, that's an S&M switch, I'm a Ds switch sadist.

Just like I am a bisexual even if every person on earth were gone but me.

It's just who I am, my orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/6/2007 5:15:55 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Pssssst....I saw this before you edited it, marie.
I sure wish you hadn't.


I saw it and sent her a private comment thanking her for it.
Perhaps she felt it was too much information, I found it helpful. 

I want to thank everyone for their nice comments.



_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/6/2007 5:26:17 AM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
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I do understand where you are coming from.  I felt this way for a few months this past year.  I was so happy not to have to have anyone controlling me, and if someone tried, I would rebel big time.
 
I couldn't figure out what was "wrong" with me at all.  I then figured out it was just another stage of being myself, and very much normal.  I didn't have the want or desire to submit again for quite a while, but when it did come back it was with my Master.  I don't think he brought it back in me, I think I allowed myself to feel it again when I knew that he was safe and someone I could trust.
 
If you feel it again, you do..if not, you don't.. just enjoy the feelings you have and let the rest come as it may.
 
Kasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
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(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/6/2007 5:29:57 AM   
bandit25


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Emperor...very well said.  Yes, I think I read Katy's post much the same way you did; however, you put it very eloquently.  Loss of a person/relationship can often trigger a corresponding change in ourselves, but I don't know if it's a fundamental change.  Like you, I think it's more the loss of a desire to be X.  That desire may or may not ever come back or it may come back in other ways.

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/6/2007 7:48:23 AM   
SusanofO


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katy: I "lost my submission" once. But, the circumstances almost seemed to require it of me (non-consensual physical abuse, apropos of nothing, it seemed). I knew this person what I thought was pretty darn well, too. Maybe these were what could be considered "extenuating circumstances", but I didn't consider it inappropriate, or odd that I felt that way. I had some fond memories, and missed them (terribly, at one point after I left), but I had more fear of what might happen if I stayed. Not necessarily emotionally, but physically, to me, that is. "Losing my submission" seemed an altogether sensible thing, at the time (and still does). 

Emotional extremes on the part of other people I can handle. I dealt with my husband's, and I deal with people at my one particular volunteer job all the time who are on some kind of emotional roller-coaster; domestically abusive parents, and children who have a very difficult time dealing with rejection and emotional pain due to their parents' treatment of them.

Just last week, I really let one dad verbally "have it" because he'd promised to visit the daughter he'd not seen for 3 years, and take her to the Zoo. She was dressed and ready for him 2 hours ahead of time, she was so excited about the whole thing. She is nine years old.  And he was 2 hours late because he was playing, apparently, an oh-so important game of golf. He had a cell phone, but didn't even think of calling to say he'd be late. She was obviously not a priority for him. So, when he arrived, I told him he couldn't see her at all - and then the shit really hit the fan. He yelled, screamed and threatened me verbally. I am a volunteer - I  can't be "fired", really. Plus, I know the center would be on my side, on this one. I didn't really care; his words just sort of went in one ear and out the other, for me. His actions  had already broadcasted loud and clear he didn't give much of a damn about her feelings, or what might be good for her. It was all about him - the parent. Well, hello! You've got a kid whose heart you are breaking, buddy. I have never wanted to slap someone so hard in a long time. I can deal with these kinds of screaming a---holes, though - they don't scare me one bit. Especially on someone else's behalf. They usually just make me mad, instead. Apparently, he thought I'd back down. Well, he thought wrong.

He didn't deserve to see her - he needed to apologize to her, which he didn't quite see as the reality, and what to do was partly my call.  But - I tried to detach, (for my own good, I realized I was upset) - and I did. He eventually talked a supervisor into letting him see her - but he had to really talk convincingly (which I am sure he is good at doing, at this point). So - everything worked out fine - which was all I really cared about anyway.

I honestly couldn't care less if Mr. "golf executive" hates my guts. It is his daughter's welfare that concerned me - which didn't seem to concern him much, really. It's why I am there - someone has to let this guy know he is being an a---hole - he's apparently been getting away with it for years, and I had nothing to lose, and she needed an advocate - that much was obvious to me. But I digress...  

I can honestly say I think it pays to just listen, take it in, consider the merits, check one's temper, and say what you have to say in return in as diplomatic a manner as possible. I even took a training seminar on this at this job. And it can sometimes pay to realize the odds are good that any effort on your end is not going to be noticed, or "sink in" right away - if ever, sometimes. Which is definitely not encouraging, but needs to be dealt with, so life can go on. 

Anyone in a social work field (volunteer or not) has to realize the art of "detachment" is their friend. I typically "detach" for a few hours (or days, or weeks) if someone is acting in a very unusually hurtful, or over-the-top rejectful manner, and maybe try to sometimes offer some support from my end, and try to remain helpful (from a slight distance) - and see where it goes. This is also called "self-preservation", and everyone knows where their own "limitation line" is, in that regard, hopefully. If they are into bdsm and they don't they better find out, or try to do that, I think.

Of course with a Dominant, the situation is a bit different, if one is submitting - but there can be, on occasion, some parallels to the above scenario, I think. If extremely abusive behavior (I mean genuinely abusive, not agreed upon or somewhat expected behavior) is habitual, I know I would veer between wanting to be supportive and walking out the door - because I really do think anyone who claims they are "Dominant" needs to be able to make an effort to keep their own emotions in check when it is necessary. Also, they need to be able to assess when it may be necessary.

submissives have to do this too, of course (and I do - I've worked years on controlling the darker side of my emotional self),  but  - supposedly, the Dominant is the one "in charge" of the relationship. I personally don't find much "in charge" about a person who doesn't know their own strength, or how to gauge it so it is most effectively used, whether that is physical or emotional. And of course, in order to be able to do that, you have to get to know a person. If I really care about someone, I tend to cut them some slack - especially for people who are under stress, or for whom this might not be typical behavior. Hopefully, I know or trust them enough to know whether it is typical, or atypical. If I don't, it can be a real "coin toss"as far as what to do.

In this particular instance for me, however, I knew this person well, and even though it was atypical, it was so physically dangerous asituation, that in my heart I knew that doing that would be folly - for me. And I do have a responsibility to myself - to take care of myself. If I don't, I am no good to anyone else.

But that was me - your relationship ended a bit differently, I'd guess - but - I'd still suggest much of the same advice -being very good to yourself and take healing as slowly as you need to take it. For me, the supposedly superficial stuff works wonders - a new haircut, lunch with a friend, meditating to music, lazy reading of books I've been meaning to read, etc. And if necessary, a good cry. Don't forget who is the important person here - katy! Good luck and don't worry - it never does any good anyway, it seems (and this comment is from a born worrier). Good luck!

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/6/2007 8:44:04 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 9:18:14 AM   
agirl


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I didn't have *submission* to lose. That's the point. I've never felt submissive as a person, nor felt a *need* to be, quite the opposite, I've always disliked being controlled in most situations.

In my case it just took a little time to realise that what I was *pining for*(term used loosely) was someone that was stronger than me, or at least AS strong, in a recognisable, significant way for ME. I'm not going to be able to follow  a person that has weaknesses of certain kinds, no matter how wonderful they are in other areas. I can love them, I can care for them and I can respect them..... but I will rely on myself, ultimately, in those circumstances.

I'm not dominant or submissive in any quantifiable way, I don't have a burning desire to follow someone or to serve someone, I don't see my decision to be under someone elses authority as something that I need to complete me, either.

I have to be a leader in some areas of my life and I have to follow in others. Sometimes I make a good job of doing both, sometimes I'm crap at both.

If I lost my Master for any reason, I'd be incredibly bereft but it would be HIM and all associated with him that I missed. I don't have any feeling of submission of being *at my core* to wonder about.

agirl






 

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 10:24:20 AM   
crouchingtigress


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From: Maui
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aloha katy...sorry so late to this thread, but i am glad that i did find it today, it is such a great topic....
 
for me when i lost my submission what i really lost was my idea of what submission was, and what i needed from it at the time...submission is something that for me is ever growing and evolving as i am drawn passionatly and inexplicably, to the understanding and harnessing of power in my life.
 
i realized all the things i thought i needed a dom to do for me , i could do for myself, and it was such and empowering feeling that i did not want to return to helpless lil girl ever again....and then some time passed as time does, and now i see things differently, i see submission differently, and i see relationships differently...
 
what if you made a list of all the quality's you want your next relationship to have? what if you described in your heart and mind your next lover and did not put any sort of label on him, but just described him by the things that make your heart sing? i dont know if that will help but it sure helped me get clear....i realized i wanted to find a certain man...not a role....and.... part of who i want him to be is flexible and creative...so that we can meet each others needs no matter what they are and what they end up being termed as.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 12:39:08 PM   
Firebirdseeking


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well what do I know, I am pretty much a newbie but seasoned in life as a woman.
I think there are many pressures on us as women in the 21st century; we are supposed to be strong and assertive, submissive, kind, giving, nurturing.  It does get confusing; how do we merge all those parts of ourselves?  Did you lose it, or just get weary, like we sometimes have gotten weary of having to be so f-king strong, or assertive, or, in some cases, grow tired of carrying the load?


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 5:44:47 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking

well what do I know, I am pretty much a newbie but seasoned in life as a woman.
I think there are many pressures on us as women in the 21st century; we are supposed to be strong and assertive, submissive, kind, giving, nurturing.  It does get confusing; how do we merge all those parts of ourselves?  Did you lose it, or just get weary, like we sometimes have gotten weary of having to be so f-king strong, or assertive, or, in some cases, grow tired of carrying the load?

The irony of course is that in all the long term healthy  Ms relationships I know, the slaves are put to work just as much as vanilla women.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Firebirdseeking)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 5:58:16 PM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

what if you described in your heart and mind your next lover and did not put any sort of label on him, but just described him by the things that make your heart sing? i dont know if that will help but it sure helped me get clear....i realized i wanted to find a certain man...not a role


Thank you for the insight.  Sometimes I do tend to get caught up in labels and forget to consider the label as a person.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 7:22:22 PM   
Tikkiee


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quote:

I thought I had a handle on this, but pffffft it slipped away.  I've been thinking about this thread for a while, and while I was thinking, things happened (that is all too common in my life).  So, is it that katy (and tickee, who posted something similar I recall) and agirl lost their submission, or that they lost the person to whom they submitted?   Or both?

I can not speak for the others, but for myself, it was both.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/7/2007 11:32:05 PM   
SimplyMichael


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There is a vast difference between losing your submission and lacking inspiration.

As I have grown and evolved, my desire for dominance hasn't changed but the place from which that dominance flows has been transformed radically as has the form that that dominance takes.  I like to think it all flows from a more healthy place for me.

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 4:54:37 AM   
Tikkiee


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quote:

There is a vast difference between losing your submission and lacking inspiration.

I have to admit, I agree with this here.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 6:22:06 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
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From: Pennsylvania
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Perhaps it is a lack of inspiration.  I do not feel inspired.  I also do not feel like chasing inspiration.  I know that at some point I will feel that urge again.  I think it will be different though as I'm taking a look at what I want and need as opposed to what I can offer.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 6:28:56 AM   
Tikkiee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Perhaps it is a lack of inspiration.  I do not feel inspired.  I also do not feel like chasing inspiration.  I know that at some point I will feel that urge again.  I think it will be different though as I'm taking a look at what I want and need as opposed to what I can offer.

believe me Katy, I know exactly what you are feeling right now in regards to this. ANd like you, I am taking a back seat, looking at everything from different angles and trying to find where I am standing at.
 
I think for me, because submitting does come hard, that its going to take more than just inspiration to find my feet again.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 7:10:32 AM   
liljoy


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wow how odd is this, i was just thinking of posting something like this. i think for me it's more the fact that i am in a place where i have accepted that right now it's just me. i can either accept where i am now and enjoy it or be unhappy with where i am

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 7:46:03 AM   
LaTigresse


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I really like what Emperor wrote. With everything that is going on in my life right now I am at a point of just not even caring to begin a relationship of any sort. I have no need or desire.

I feel like I am the old indian fire carrier (or whatever the hell they called them) carrying around in a special pouch that protected hot coal. It's there, it won't go away, but I just don't want the bonfire right now.

I think part of it, no inspiration. It takes a certain type of woman.

I think that may be a similarity for those that are talking about not feeling submissive. I view all of you as strong intelligent women. Women that do not submit to just anyone that says they are dominant, but moreso someone very special that draws it out of you. I may be totally way off base, but it's just what came to me from reading thru this thread.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to liljoy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 7:59:37 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Perhaps it is a lack of inspiration.  I do not feel inspired.  I also do not feel like chasing inspiration.  I know that at some point I will feel that urge again.  I think it will be different though as I'm taking a look at what I want and need as opposed to what I can offer.

always having a song in my head, I will submit for your consideration, 'Natural Woman'  by Aretha Franklin

MrMoTown

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Losing My Submission - 1/8/2007 9:16:03 AM   
cloudboy


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This almost sounds like an REM song.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 60
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