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RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 8:08:31 AM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Here's a thought. The people who cling to that redundant system were dead set against the likes of me being able to change my birth certificate. I was born male so whatever, I remain male for them. Now, the same people are dead set against rights for lesbians. Yet, under their first position I would be free to marry a woman in a lesbian relationship - proper marriage, rather than a civil partnership, with all the rights and privileges that affords. Rather then for them, that I can change my birth certificate so I can only marry a man as a lesser of two evils situation perhaps?

E


LadyEllen,

It isn't called a birth certificate for nothing.  You were a man at birth.  (Before you flame, read on) 

Gender reassignment (or whatever the PC term is) is relatively new as compared to when society started tracking peoples' birth, death, etc.  Unless it is politically beneficial to government, change is a long and drawn out process.  Maybe, the birth certificate should always state your birth gender, but they could add a statement as to your current gender if that were to change.  At any rate, getting something like this changed will take time and probably isn't at the top of anyones list in government.

As far as your example of who you could legally marry, that is something I never considered.  (Of course, this issue and so many other issues concerning TS/TG are things most of the rest of us don't think about).

Just because a person changed from a man to a woman doesn't imply they find men sexually attractive (I'm being hypothetical here, I'm not delving into your personal life or your preferences).  If that were the case, then the ability to marry a woman legally wouldn't be so much of an issue.  It would be for those that wanted to marry a man and couldn't (also assuming they wanted to marry in the first place)

The whole marriage issue is real touchy - the idea of "marriage" was born out of religion where it was a man and a woman.  When you start messing with people's religion they can get real ugly (how many millions have died over the centuries ...)

Basically, for government purposes, they need to have civil unions for everyone so they can get whatever benefits that couples are permitted.  The churches have the "religious" marriage (which would have to continue to be binding as a civil union for governmental purposes) and "non-traditional" couples would get the benefits from the civil union, the religious would have their marriage sacrament in tact, and it's another step to the goal. (divide and conquer so to speak).

Of course, the "non-traditionals" could say "we're married", as speech is basically free, even if they aren't technically married in the tenets of religion.  Kind of the, "you have to crawl before you can walk" thing.

If it makes you feel any better, unless the person filling out your death certificate knows you are TS, you will be labeled a woman.  On a side note, it would be VERY nice if that certificate was filled out long after 2018!!!!!!!

_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

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Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 8:17:34 AM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I do not idealise heterosexual marriage,in fact I dont idealise anything, but the effects on children of failed relationships or single parenting are I repeat well known.

I think this depends on the parent, the child and their circumstances. There are plenty of positive outcomes to such situations as well as negative, indicating that it is not the parenting situation itself which is the cause of either result.




I must concur with LadyEllen simply because parenting is not an exact science and not all people are compatible with raising children.

In the movie Parenthood, Keanu Reeves says "You need a license to fish and a license to drive, but any jerk can become a parent."
 
Truer words were never spoken



_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 9:50:59 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		not to say vital, role that stable harmonious heterosexually oriented families are able to produce. Obviously I refer to the bringing up of children.
Single mothers/Homosexual males do not have that influence regardless of what they believe, what their children believe and what the Liberals assert.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to traditional versus unconventional family arrangements and subsequent adjustment of any children, I believe that the data is rock solid as to which is best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You appear to admit the correlation between social problems and single parents.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the point is that many single parents live chaotic lives with no clear direction or focus and drift from relationship to relationship in a totally irresponsible way when the affects on any  children are considered.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not a big fan of single parents or homosexuals then?
I am a single parent as are a lot of my friends.
All i will say here is that i personally have a very well balanced, well behaved intelligent child. She is 14 now and taking two GCSE's a year early and she plans to become a journalist. I have brought her up since she was two on my own and see no signs in her of the ill effects you have decided she will suffer from.
The last statement you made about single parents and chaotic lives i find highly offensive and am sure that most single parents would also.
Just out of curiosity are you a parent?




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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 10:39:19 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Missturbation: I am talking averages or tendencies

I  said this in post 160....
I also believe that many women end up alone thru' circumstances out of their control, look after their kids, possibly meet other men, eventually settle down and all turns out OK. The general tendency is not like this in my OPINION. Also dont forget that children themselves can be tyrants and make life difficult for the women when she is considering a new partner.

So I think I do have some empathy for difficult situations
BUT
I am afraid MsM that whatever you may have achieved, which is worthy of praise, overall, family dislocation or breakdown has serious consequences for children and frequently results in various forms of delinquency or underachievement.
These negative formative influences are one of the main reasons given by PC liberals as to why teenage criminals deserve lenient treatment and understanding. That doesn't work either !

On re reading what I have said, since I dont know the exact statistics, I think it is possible that I have over estimated the negative side of things ie the criminality/deliquency.  Another thing I should mention is that plenty of hetero partners damage their children, but overall, I think what I have said is true.

Another point springs to mind MsM, without wishing to intrude in your personal circumstances. I would hazard a guess that your daughter was in fact brought up in an extended family, ie your relations and your siblings were involved. True ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/9/2007 10:58:33 AM >

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 10:40:54 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Well, the good people of Maine copied the idea or came up with it on their own regarding another issue. Interesting to note it's always pointed to the benefit of the children. Are we moving toward a Kabutz style government camp for our kids because obviously the government knows best?
quote:

 BANGOR, Maine (AP) -- The Bangor City Council approved a measure Monday that prohibits people from smoking in vehicles when children are present.
When the law goes into effect next week, Bangor will become the first municipality in Maine to have such a law. Similar statewide measures have been adopted in Arkansas and Louisiana and are under consideration in several other states. Source: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/09/D8MHRQEO1.html 


Cars are no longer 'private' for the purpose of this law. How long will houses and apartments fall into the same exemption "for the good of the children"? 

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 11:00:05 AM   
steviemichael


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		houses and apartments already pay the price for being a smoker  assurence rates are higher:
and some will not even insure your house.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 11:56:59 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Another point springs to mind MsM, without wishing to intrude in your personal circumstances. I would hazard a guess that your daughter was in fact brought up in an extended family, ie your relations and your siblings were involved. True ?

Not particularly. My parents both live in Spain and i see my brother maybe once a year. My daughter is an only child and she doesnt have much to do with her father due to problems with her step mum. The only other close relative she sees on a regular basis is her grandma on her fathers side. Actually when you look at it its quite sad that she only really has me as a constant but still shes happy, doing well and thats all that counts.
 
Whilst you may have a point with your opinion about single parents i felt you were being a little harsh on them. Even in a family with mum, dad, grandmas, grandads etc etc bringing up a child aint easy and there is always someone out there ready to tell you where you are going wrong even if everything is fine.
 
The funniest times i have been spouted at about parenting and the how you should raise your kids has to be by those who dont even have children themselves, the do gooders with no experience.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 2:05:07 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		Missturbation: one thing I am definately not is a do-gooder !

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 6:03:40 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Hmm i never said you were.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/9/2007 9:14:22 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		Merc,
 
Without reading this entire thread, i have to say i am in complete agreement with you.  So where does it end?
 
From what i saw, some are saying that education is important....and what about parental responsibility?  We raise our kids eating certain foods.  From 1-5 years of age, we feed them every meal and if by chance they are in day care, we either place them where they serve nutritional meals....or we supply the food.  i did both when my kids were young.  Then when they go to school, if you don't like the school lunch, you pack them a lunch of what you want. 
 
Admittedly, financially some have to utilize the free lunch program.  i won't judge that and while that may not be their preference, they just have to take what they can get at that point.  That's what i would have done if i had to....and then control their other food intake as i could at home.
 
No kid can go in and buy McD's at 5 years old.....and even at say 10, they still need to get the money from somewhere to do so.  So for many years, kids should be eating what their parents provide for them and if that is overall healthy, then that is what they learn.
 
But i also realize that when kids gain some autonomy in their teen years, things change and perhaps what you have taught them falls by the wayside....and that goes for eating, sex, smoking, drugs.....whatever.  That is the point where you can't be with them every free moment and they have to make their own decisions, and you can only hope that you have taught them well.  And even then, depending on the kid, that may not matter an iota at the time.
 
i have no qualms with educating kids about the dangers of anything....drugs, smoking, unprotected sex, even food, but for God sake, leave the choice to me, as the parent, to choose what they are exposed to....not the government.  If i am not a 'good parent', then i may not raise 'good kids' but if every person should do it the same exact way, then maybe we should just be forced to send them all to Catholic school.....lol.  i'm sure many will argue that is the way to go. 
 
Ah, but parents are lazy....they want someone to intervene for them where they can't.  If you do not believe in feeding your kids McD's then don't.  If they see 6 zillion commercials for it and beg for it, too bad.  You are the parent....that is your job.  If you can't say no, that's your issue....and not one that should be regulated by the government because you can't take control of a 5 year old.
 
The same with computers and internet porn.  Hello....you are the parent.  There are ways to ensure your kid does not view internet porn:
 
Don't have a computer;
Put a password on it so they do not have free access to it;
When they do get on, sit and watch what they do.
Or do as my brother did and get one of those 'watch' programs where you can see every site they visited.
 
Oh gawd......that would take too much work!  Now again, if at 15 they go somewhere, to a friend's house or something where they can see such things...well, there's not much you can do unless you know about it and forbid them to see that friend and we all know how that works.  In short, you teach them the best you can, take the steps you can, then hope for the best.  But please, don't succumb to allowing the government to regulate all those things so you don't have to.
 
When i see parents who want to abdicate authority to the government to regulate what we, as parents, should be teaching our kids, i see lazy parents.  If you don't want to raise your kids the way you want, exposing them to what you feel is right (as opposed to what the government thinks is right for them).....then either don't have them or put them in some government institution where everything will be regulated for them.
 
But anyhoo....your link was a blast!  i'd really much rather see commercials explaining to kids why certain foods are not good for them....and then at least the kids can make some decision on what they should do when they get older rather than someone making that decision for them.  But i really think we need to start a list of acceptable and unacceptable food for kids...so i start with hot dogs.  Bad, bad hot dogs!  And Kraft macaroni and cheese, because it contains the ill-fated cheese product.  Doritos.  Any potato chips.  No twinkies (or the like).  No pies or cakes.
 
Acceptable:  all fruits and veggies and their by-products.  Maybe bread?  Boiled and baked potatoes (no sour cream nor butter, too fatty).  i don't know...i guess i have to think about this one for a minute....
 
Edited to add:  Anyone else?

 
DG
 
 
 
 

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 1/9/2007 9:19:26 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 5:03:26 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Ah, but parents are lazy....they want someone to intervene for them where they can't. 
When i see parents who want to abdicate authority to the government to regulate what we, as parents, should be teaching our kids, i see lazy parents.
 
A daddys girl (apt name).
 
Whilst i agree that parents are responsible for bringing up their children and should do so i would like to say that when a child sees an advert for something it wants, be it a toy, food etc and they whinge and ask and ask again it gets pretty annoying. Some children like mine dont ask more than once but others do especially when they are younger.  Removal of the adverts and im not saying i agree with the removal removes the child from seeing and asking. It can make life a little easier for parents who are trying to juggle many things at the same time.
Lazy parents??????? I dont know one lazy parent - pretty obvious you do not have kids of your own otherwise you would not be so judgemental.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 6:15:45 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

A daddys girl (apt name).
 
Whilst i agree that parents are responsible for bringing up their children and should do so i would like to say that when a child sees an advert for something it wants, be it a toy, food etc and they whinge and ask and ask again it gets pretty annoying. Some children like mine dont ask more than once but others do especially when they are younger.  Removal of the adverts and im not saying i agree with the removal removes the child from seeing and asking. It can make life a little easier for parents who are trying to juggle many things at the same time.
Lazy parents??????? I dont know one lazy parent - pretty obvious you do not have kids of your own otherwise you would not be so judgemental.


i do have 3 kids, that i raised by myself.  The oldest is a chiropractor and oddly enough, also teaches classes in nutrition at a college in Buffalo.  my oldest son is a Sgt in the Marines.  And my youngest is 18 and now in college.  So i struggled through many years of tv commercials and 'mommy, i want this'.  my kids got what i felt was best for them (regardless of their whining) until such time as they could make their own decisions and had the means to purchase their own 'toys', food, clothes, etc.  i see that as my responsibility as a parent, and no one else's.
 
i can specifically recall as my kids got older that they no longer wanted to wear clothes purchased at K-Mart.  With 3 kids, that was all i could afford back then so that is what they got.  'Wear 'em or go bare-assed' was my favorite saying. 
 
Until they could take care of themselves, my kids did not dictate how i raised them...nor did my parents, friends, or other relatives.  And i would have no desire for the government to do so either. 
 
BTW...i now have a grandson and another on the way.....and so the whining begins anew.  Oh well!
 
And not sure what you meant by  'A daddys girl (apt name)'.  Care to elaborate?
 
Daddysgirl


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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 6:24:10 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		My apologies for presuming you werent a parent.
However i would think as a parent you would yourself know that all parents are not lazy as you stated.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 1/10/2007 6:43:42 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 6:53:37 AM   
adaddysgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

sure i'll elaborate - i found your reply to be offensive to parents. You didnt state it as an opinion or even say some parents are lazy, you stated as fact.
 
i suppose i could have prefaced the whole thing by adding the disclaimer 'this is just my opinion'.  Would that have helped?  Afterall, it is just the way i see it.  And i never said all parents.
 
In general i find that to be a very child like narrow vision of a subject.
 
It seems you freely throw the word 'judgmental' around but rarely apply it to yourself.  Could this comment not be considered judgmental?  Or is there a different set of rules for your judgments?
 
Just out of curiosity are you putting yourself into your 'lazy parent' statement.
 
Oh no, i was not a lazy parent....not by any means.

It would have sufficed just to say that you have kids, Im not here to make sweeping statements about parents just defend them / myself. You certainly didnt need to justify how you brought your kids up to me.
 
Well since you made the false assumption of  'pretty obvious you do not have kids of your own otherwise you would not be so judgemental', i just felt some need to clarify.
 
BTW miss....do you have high blood pressure?  Your posts appear to carry undertones of anger (just a speculation on my part of course).
 
DG



(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 6:57:40 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		If you look above you will actually see that i edited my post as i changed my mind. Unfortunately you read it before it must have been edited and i can only say sorry for that.
Ah, but parents are lazy
I still stand by this as being a judgement and statement of fact though not an opinion. It was offensive to me as a parent.

Not angry in the slightest but i am defensive of myself as a parent. Everyone parents differently and if it is easier for some parents for their children not to watch adverts that make them want whatever product who are we to judge? Its not laziness in parenting its just making it a little easier for that particular parent.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 1/10/2007 7:00:19 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 7:05:43 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

If you look above you will actually see that i edited my post as i changed my mind. Unfortunately you read it before it must have been edited and i can only say sorry for that.
Ah, but parents are lazy
I still stand by this as being a judgement and statement of fact though not an opinion. It was offensive to me as a parent.


Yes, i did read it before your edit....and that is what i responded to.
 
Although i did not mean all parents, you are right, i should have put some parents are lazy. 
 
But i see what you are saying now.  You thought i wasn't a parent so was knocking all parents (as in i've never been there but can judge others that way).  i could see the misunderstanding but i really meant it more as an observation from being a parent myself. 
 
DG

(in reply to missturbation)
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RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 9:17:54 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

If you look above you will actually see that i edited my post as i changed my mind. Unfortunately you read it before it must have been edited and i can only say sorry for that.
Ah, but parents are lazy
I still stand by this as being a judgement and statement of fact though not an opinion. It was offensive to me as a parent.

Not angry in the slightest but i am defensive of myself as a parent. Everyone parents differently and if it is easier for some parents for their children not to watch adverts that make them want whatever product who are we to judge? Its not laziness in parenting its just making it a little easier for that particular parent.


Geesh, as someone that reared a child by herself from the time he was 8 months old, I do not think lazy ever came into it. Lets see, overworked and underpaid come to mind, but never lazy. So much more pressure on parents today and on children today. Most people work 40 hours a week and then go home and work some more, I do not know how anyone can call these people lazy... I absolutely agree

These days we need a planner just to know what day what happens...

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(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 10:20:35 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

If you look above you will actually see that i edited my post as i changed my mind. Unfortunately you read it before it must have been edited and i can only say sorry for that.
Ah, but parents are lazy
I still stand by this as being a judgement and statement of fact though not an opinion. It was offensive to me as a parent.


Yes, i did read it before your edit....and that is what i responded to.
 
Although i did not mean all parents, you are right, i should have put some parents are lazy. 
 
But i see what you are saying now.  You thought i wasn't a parent so was knocking all parents (as in i've never been there but can judge others that way).  i could see the misunderstanding but i really meant it more as an observation from being a parent myself. 
 
DG


I presumed you werent a parent which was wrong and i apologise. I had no profile to go on or anything as yours doesnt show.
Ovbviously a misunderstanding between us - sorry.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 11:10:44 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I presumed you werent a parent which was wrong and i apologise. I had no profile to go on or anything as yours doesnt show.
Ovbviously a misunderstanding between us - sorry.


That's okay miss.  i realized what you were saying afterward too.  Ah, the glories of the written word!
 
DG

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Question for the Brits, and those that wish they were. - 1/10/2007 11:41:06 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Geesh, as someone that reared a child by herself from the time he was 8 months old, I do not think lazy ever came into it. Lets see, overworked and underpaid come to mind, but never lazy. So much more pressure on parents today and on children today. Most people work 40 hours a week and then go home and work some more, I do not know how anyone can call these people lazy... I absolutely agree

These days we need a planner just to know what day what happens...


Well, i'm not talking physically lazy julia.  It was written in this context  'Ah, but parents are lazy....they want someone to intervene for them where they can't.  If you do not believe in feeding your kids McD's then don't.  If they see 6 zillion commercials for it and beg for it, too bad.  You are the parent....that is your job.  If you can't say no, that's your issue....and not one that should be regulated by the government because you can't take control of a 5 year old'......and this  'When i see parents who want to abdicate authority to the government to regulate what we, as parents, should be teaching our kids, i see lazy parents.'
 
So i actually meant lazy as in responsibility-wise...not as in constantly being busy. 
 
DG


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 180
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