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Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 11:15:40 AM   
fullokinks


Posts: 12
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline 		Before anyone corks off about this rather sensitive question let me just say that I have absolutely no problem with pro-domme. In fact, I have a lot of experience with it. However, I consider any relationship with a pro to be strictly business, she's providing a service that I want, I am the client. Being a switch, I understand the power of money; I have it and others want it. There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose. For this reason I consider all but one or two of my experiences with pro-domme to be more satisfying to my top side, and not really bottom at all. I have to admit, though, a couple of ladies actually turned the tables on me and had their way as they saw fit. That's extremely rare, though. So, is pro-domme an oxymoron? I tend to think that 90% of the time the pro is being coerced into doing a session that she would rather not do.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 12:10:09 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Ahh the old pro dom oxymoron or isn't it? So you pleased you asked. ;)

Yes and no. When I first started professional sessions I was very much about what the client wanted. He/she called the shots of what they expected and like a dutifull actress, I played the role accordingly. And that is where I thought I would stay.

Then disillusionment set in, getting used by clients to fullfill their needs...when none of My own were being met...so I stopped taking money from men who thought they were buying a service and suggested other women better suited to their needs.

Now I only take on clients and one of sessions that I will get either a) fullfillment from or b) an education, or c) hone a skill I once wasn't interested in.

Jasmyn

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 12:12:35 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Ps: meant to say ... its all about Me or its not about anyone...despite how many $$'s he/she waves.

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 12:14:09 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think one can consider a pro-domme a type of service top.

That being said, pro-dommes can be vanilla, slaves, doms or whatever in terms of relationship. Pro-domme is a career.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 1:48:35 PM   
MistressInNYC


Posts: 29
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		Just my 2 cents...

I'm a pro-domme - yes, I take money for my service menaing I agree to fullfill "clients" needs. Yes, it might not be my needs at all.....but again depending on the situation. I always enjoy it though that's for sure.

People come to pro-dommes are usually;
A complete novice - they don't even know what they want or who (ig. sub, switch, or just kinky-in-bed-sub) they are.
A married one - who discovered what they want, but too late to tell or rejected the idea of being themselves in BDSM way by their wives/husbands
A discrete ones - they just enjoy occasionally and never want to expose to public.

Once they start realizing what they want, they may come back to me or they go on to the lifestyle.
To me, I guide them to find thier needs not fantasies anymore.
It takes a tremenous effort on my side since clients are not chosen by my satndard sometimes.
Although my "regular" clients became my kind later, I just think this is my chosen job that I deserve to get paid for my service just like any other job. I'm doing what I love and I can give a pleasure what they paid for.
Some clients come see me because they cannot yet find their dommes.
Meantime, I'm there for them to fullfill their needs.

So, if you think you don't want to pay, then just look for "lifestyle domme".
It's that simple. No one is forcing you to see a pro-domme.

Just for the record,
In my private, I don't take any money at all.
Again, my private life happened to be the same as my job on the surface, but to me it's totally a different world.

If my subs/slaves give me something, I gladly take it as a sign of their appreciation.
Also, I give something to them when I want to show my appreciation.
We have a mutual agreement and understanding each other that has NOTHING to do with my job as a pro-domme.

If someone comes to me and "demands" to fullfill their needs that's when I treat them as clients.
If someone comes to me and "offers" to fullfill my needs that's when I treat them as my "personal" subs/slaves.

I speak for myself so I don't know how other pro-dommes/lifestyle-dommes think, but that's how I view myself as a pro-domme and being myself in this lifestyle.


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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 2:27:48 PM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline 		I've always considered relationships business transactions in which one person gives another something in return for something else.

In a relationship that involves a Domme and her submissive the two exchange affection among other things. Both are content in the relationship. Both get what the need and sometimes they get what they want. However that wants/needs issue is a whole new kettle of fish so I shan't go there.

In a ProDomme relationship the ProDomme may genuinely enjoy what she is doing. Then again perhaps she does not. Perhaps her fulfillment comes in the form of payment. In this case she's getting what she wants in the form of money. The paying submissive gets his/her needs met by trading money. Do these relationships involve emotion? They can. Do they have to? Nope.

It all boils down to supply and demand - regardless of what the relationship is based on.

If "Domina" desires affection, attention and a footstool out of "submissive" and "submissive" wants affection, attention and to be a footstool they have their desires met. The relationship is fulfilling... mutually beneficial.

If "ProDomme" desires money for the flogging session and "submissive with money" wants to ante up for the session to get his/her kicks then a deal is reached. Both are content with the results. Again the relationship is satisfying for both.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/24/2005 7:01:19 PM   
SecretDomme


Posts: 152
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fullokinks

Being a switch, I understand the power of money; I have it and others want it. There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose. For this reason I consider all but one or two of my experiences with pro-domme to be more satisfying to my top side, and not really bottom at all.



Hello,

I just have a couple of comments:

1) I am not sure what being a switch has to do with money and understanding the power of money. I do understand your next statement regarding feeling powerful with your money, but I do not apply that to any sort of lifestyle category (switch, sub, Dom/me).

2) I would guess that many ProDommes get into the business because they enjoy domination, and I believe that many would probably be doing what you have paid them to do, even if they were not Pro.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/25/2005 12:28:47 AM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
OMG.. I LOVE your avatar! I sent it to three people before I even started reading the thread. My support friends loved it!

I understand your point. Since I am not pro, have never been pro and will probably never be pro, I may not have the best insight. I would think that it would be like the rest of the world.. some people enjoy their jobs, others don't. Some of the ProDomme love what they do and keep subs of their own outside of their profession. Others don't. I pretty recently told a friend about my lifestyle. We've known each other for a few years. I was telling her about this "wild party" I'd been at (BDSM one) and she responded positively to the telling. Said it sounded cool to her. I told her that actually, this was something I did regularly and that she would probably enjoy it. I invited her to come to some munches and parties. (She has the right temperment.) Her first question.. Cool, how much can I make at it? I did point out to her that Pro meant experienced, and that she'd have to do a lot of learning before she could ever charge. She lost a bit of interest at that.

While yes, you are purchasing a service, you are not providing a script. You give the Pro your list of things you enjoy, your preferences and your hard limits. It is up to her to find a way to create your fantasy. I would expect her to do so in a way that best suited her. However, if she is someone who sees multiple clients a day every day, I can see it no longer even being worth trying to gain something for yourself from it. I do know a lot of formerly pro Domme who have burned out on it.



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*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/25/2005 11:49:53 AM   
LadyTantalize


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline 		Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - does this false philosophy never end??? Yes, there are bad ProDommes in it only for the money who are not even actually Dominant Women at heart and those are the ones perpeptuating this negative attitude toward Professional Domination. And just like any "poser" or shady character operating in any given profession, there are good and bad folks in any and all professions. There are bad cops, bad lawyers, bad doctors filling fradulent perscriptions only for the bucks, there are bad mechanics, bad teachers, there are bad people. Just as there are good doctors who actually care about people (rare I know), or good waitresses who do care if you are happy with the service, etc. - I KNOW that my cleaning lady and I are good friends, and I KNOW that my chiropractor does indeed CARE about my health. Quit stereotyping!! Some people in the business world can and do have sincere friendships with clients, and vice versus.

I have clients that I've seen for many years and I cherish them, are their friends and care about them as they do me!

If someone were to wave money at me, or address me in the negative manner in which you commented, they would be either turned away or simply ignored.

I session with who I want, when I want, how I want!! I do not engage in scripted scenes and I NEVER do anything that I do not enjoy!!

I am a ProDomme because I am a Dominant, Sadistic Woman involved in the leather lifestyle who enjoys a vast range of play and the fact that I can make money doing something that I love! Just like a successful artist, musician, or doctor, or mechanic or a pizza-maker who happens to love making pizza - it's simply a matter of being able to make money doing something you love. What's wrong with that?

So, since I've so little energy left to continue responding to folks who continue to stereotype, I'm cutting and pasting my response from another post of much the same vein.

Also, if you have a lot of experience with ProDommes but only rarely do you feel the experience worth it, obviously you are not researching your choice of ProDomme very well as you must not be seeing ones best suited to your "style" or needs, nor of the caliber and experience that would must assuredly make you feel completely "dominated". On another note, the phrase "I have to admit, though, a couple of ladies actually turned the tables on me and had their way as they saw fit.", this comment leads me to think possibly you didn't enter into the session in a submissive mindset anyway as if you did, why would "the tables need to be turned"? And I find this comment quite strange "For this reason I consider all but one or two of my experiences with pro-domme to be more satisfying to my top side, and not really bottom at all" - did you session with a Pro-submissive? How did a Domme satisfy your "top side"? Just curious. Did you tell the Dommes involved that you were a "switch", did you ask for "forced submission" or more of a "resistance play" type atmosphere? Sometimes a session is only as good as what you put into it!

MY RESPONSE TO "GETTING PAID FOR IT":
But, I can't see myelf doing the McDomme thing. A real Domme doesn't take orders."

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! Sorry, but it did sound snotty!!! No wonder why I don't do message boards much anymore - because every time I come back, I read the same attitude and incorrect assumptions!!!!

At least I am hearing some truth here from some - I almost had to stop reading. After YEARS of spewing forth the SAME debates over and over, after YEARS of defending Professional Domination. We have to defend it more from those sharing our alternative lifestyle preferances more so than from vanillas - what's that all about??? Sheeesh, I'm tired!

Control, power and domination can be exchanged in MANY different ways and NO ONE has the right to deem how another lives this lifestyle!! (ok, unless it's against SSC or RACK credos or are dangerous psychos or something!! ) Stop looking down your nose at ProBDSM work, research the field and take a broader view of a very broad subject!

I take orders from NO ONE! My websites clearly state My desires, needs and preferances - those who enjoy My specialties contact Me. Those who expect scripted scenes, to be able to top from the bottom, or that I will cater to their demands are dismissed. Although the "McDomme" thing is cute, if what you like is on the menu, then you are in luck! If not, too bad, this ain't Burger King and for most ProDommes - the subs CANNOT have it all their way! Sort of would ruin the "fantasy" that we are selling, wouldn't it. In order to sell the fantasy, we must dissect it, learn it, live it, know it!! For the client, it's the fantasy, for Us, it's the REALITY OF WHO WE ARE AND I AM DAMN PROUD TO BE A PRO DOMME! Many of us even have vanilla careers, and don't depend on it to pay the rent. But, for those who do, most who are ethical, experienced and established DO NOT take orders, thank you very much!

(Another side of this ---- If I give My order to a waitress, does that mean she is not a "real" homemaker, woman, cook or whatever? It's a job, and most of the human race takes orders from others in one way or another and they are no less of who they are!!!

There is a big difference between an experienced, established Professional Dominatrix and a "hooker with a whip", or a fetish performer, or a BDSM escort, or a bored housewife looking for thrills and extra pocket change. Just as there is a difference between a neurosurgeon, an anesthestist (sic.) a proctologist, an "herb doctor", an LPN, an RN, or the quack with a store front and a fake license hanging on the wall offering cheap boob jobs!!! It is the responsibility of the client to research and choose appropriately.

Don't stereotype or discriminate within a lifestyle that is already fighting harsh judgements from vanilla society! And, yes, the "experienced, established ProDommes" are, most often, in the "lifestyle" as well!

(DISCLAIMER: No offense for the labels used above as I think prostitution should be legalized and I have no problem with such!! I am not an escort!)

I have clients that I've seen for years. I have even have a client who is a "collared slave" to Me who has been with Me for four years - yeah, figure that one out. Many BDSM lifestyle relationships do not even last that long!

I've had collared slaves and submissives, male and female; I've had personal submissives, I've had playmates. I'm currently considering a new collaring and personal D/s relationship in a poly aspect. I am married to My vanilla man/sub/bedroom-slave and we've been together for almost ten years. There is a difference in the two relationships (professional and personal), true, just as there is a difference is a Master/slave, a D/s, a poly, etc., etc., and all of the other types of alternative lifestyles. NONE are wrong! And, just as many professions revolve around "personal contact" and "emotional connections" (day care and hospice workers, doctors, psychiatrists, hell even My hair stylist is My friend) most all of the "experienced, established" ProDommes CARE about their clients and they do not merely "accept their offer and take their money".

Damnit, look at how much EFFORT, TIME, WORK, ENERGY AND MONEY that We must put into Our Pro work!!!!

I do not consider doing something you love for a monetary service to be "selling out" - yeah, but I guess U2, Jimi Hendrix, or Andy Warhol all "sold out". (Just examples here, but I think I made My point!) (Umm, ok maybe U2 did sell out!) *laughs* Give Me a break - WORKING HARD TO HONE YOUR CRAFT AND YOUR EXPERTISE IN A CERTAIN FIELD IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY IS NOT SELLING OUT. If that were the case, every one who went to college to pursue a dream of doing something they love and earning a living would be selling out!!!!!! If someone can become successful doing what they love - more power to them!

OK, sorry for the harshness but if I had a dollar for every time I've encountered such misunderstanding and condescending mindsets over Professional Domination over the past years, I bet WE ALL here could retire on the amount!!!!

I also apologize for repeating anything mentioned by others in various threads. I didn't read all, I immediately gruffed and started typing!!!!
I do apologize for the droning, excessive commenting and ranting! Got Me at a bad moment, I guess and truly tired of defending something that the lifestyle needs to accept as beneficial for the outlet, knowledge, extensive diversified experience that We can share!!!

OK, enough!!! *smiles, chuckles and grins*

Best wishes to A/all here, and truly no offense or hard feelings to anyone. Just had to get it out, I guess!!!

Wishes for a lovely weekend to A/all.

Truly,

Lady T.




_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/25/2005 12:18:30 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyTantalize
Yes, there are bad ProDommes in it only for the money who are not even actually Dominant Women at heart and those are the ones perpeptuating this negative attitude toward Professional Domination.


I don't think doing it just for the money, or not being a dominant in personal life makes someone a bad pro-domme. And I haven't seen those as the types who have negative atttitudes towards it. They simply take advantage of the opportunities they have.


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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/25/2005 2:21:19 PM   
LadyTantalize


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline 		Very true and good point!! And, I formally retract that statement made in irritation and frustration. More correctly stated and in my opinion, it would be the ones who lack the necessary knowledge, education or experience in their BDSM practices that cause sessions to result in being unsafe for the client who I consider to be the "bad ProDommes" aiding to the negative outlook that others may have of Professional Domination.

Sometimes, I can get "high-horsey" about women in it only for the money who are not really Dominant in their soul, but I should not, as valid points are for respect being due to those who are professional, legitimate, and safe in their business. And, I've been trying to open my mind since I tout others to open theirs, so it's only right that I apologize for the poor choice of words and I do try to have the proper perspective on such matters. I actually even know an extremely successful ProDomme who is not in the "leather lifestyle" for whose Professional Domination is for her just that - a business. She is very professional and safe, as well as very well-liked by her clients and I do respect her greatly, even though for a few years I was a bit reserved and "high-horsey" about her. But after some introspection, I realized I was stereo-typing and shame on me! *smiles* Although she does not associate with lifestyle events, our paths do occassionally cross at leather education functions or ProDomme events such as DomCon, and I do respect her for being completely professional in her ProDomme business.

With that said, I stand corrected. *smiles*


Truly,

Lady T.



_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/25/2005 10:36:26 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I am P/T Pro and I am very picky about who I will session with. I do not take orders, and I do not act out a scripted scene according to the "money waver's" fantasy of the week.
I just turned down a potential client because he pissed Me off. he attempted to tell Me how to run his session and what he wanted, and then even had the nerve to try to bargain with Me based on a three times a months "deal".
Sorry...No Way!![
BTW, I never session with an admitted switch. And, trust Me, I will know by the time you whip out your credit card to pay for O/our introductory dinner.

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 2/26/2005 12:14:30 PM   
fullokinks


Posts: 12
Joined: 12/29/2004
Status: offline 		Hmmm.....a little frustrated, are we? It certainly was not my intention to spark such a rant, but I genuinely hope you feel better. I asked the simple question 'is pro-domme an oxymoron', and expected a range of answers. Most are like yours, ambiguous, but suggesting more of a yes with some exeptions. That's pretty much how I look at it.

By the way, I know some of the most experienced domme's in my area, and only a few still do pro. Typically, most of the women get into the business to serve the vanilla crowd or the married-but-cheating clientelle. This makes it difficult to find someone willing to occaisionally participate in my bottom moods, since anybody with real skill isn't wasting it on a one-hour session with an obnoxious switch. Your impression of me is only partially right.

At any rate, I am thankful for the pros and still occaisionally give a particularly interesting lady a try. I don't look down on it, or take it for prostitution, or have any other hang-ups about it. It's a service, and one that I think a truly skillful domme can be proud to render.

Thank for the thread.

Paul

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 10:09:49 AM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If not, too bad, this ain't Burger King and for most ProDommes - the subs CANNOT have it all their way!

Wow, Lady Tantalize, can You get subs at Burger King now ? They must have changed their menu again. Hmm ... sissy bets that their ice cream is still vanilla, though!

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola




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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 10:30:20 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Then disillusionment set in, getting used by clients to fullfill their needs...when none of My own were being met...so I stopped taking money from men who thought they were buying a service and suggested other women better suited to their needs.

Now I only take on clients and one of sessions that I will get either a) fullfillment from or b) an education, or c) hone a skill I once wasn't interested in.



That's pretty much why I got out of proing for a living. I was never willing to take a client just for the money and refused many more prospectives than I accepted simply because they were LOOKING for a service provider and I was not willing to assume that role. I only took/take clients who want to establish a D/s or S/m relationship. The money is simply a replacement form of energy exchange because they can't be 'on call' due to their circumstances. It also is a very effective boundary maker - you pay you NEVER get sex of any kind.

Professional relationships do no preclude a close BDSM bond if we're picky about who we see.

So I agree, the answer to the OP is yes and no. It depends on who you go and see. If you're interested in being provided a service, or even on the defensive about not being 'taken for a ride for your money' then chances are pretty good that's what you'll get - a service provider. If you're willing to do your homework before approaching a woman and actually submit within the dynamic then no, that pro is not a service provider.

In a sense you really do get what you pay for.




_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 10:41:56 AM   
sissymaidlola


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

In a sense you really do get what you pay for.

In that case, it works just like CollarMe ...

Respectfrilly Yours,

sissy maid lola




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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 3:36:01 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola

quote:

In a sense you really do get what you pay for.


In that case, it works just like CollarMe ...



If I were inclined to argue I'd argue that with you. I have a bit of an idea of what kind of work goes into keeping this site running and I'm impressed, doubly so because the site is free.

But it's ok if you don't agree.


_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 3:47:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

doubly so because the site is free.


Miz Suz,

It's a good reason to make this a pay site. That's how they purged the other site of this problem.

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 6:43:12 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fullokinks
I am the client. Being a switch, I understand the power of money; I have it and others want it. There is a genuine feeling of power to be able to get someone to do something that they would never do otherwise, simply by waving a few bills under the nose.

I'm not a Pro Domme, and still hate the way this sounds... Maybe it's me but cheap woman for sale is how I'm feeling this statement... Not a woman who can get you to pay her to do things the she enjoys doing anyway.
On some level we're all whores to our jobs right? Unless you sit at home do nothing and people send you money. M

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RE: Is Pro-Domme an Oxymoron? - 3/30/2005 8:07:25 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

Unless you sit at home do nothing and people send you money


Hey... that sounds like a pretty good job! Of course, a person would have to arrange for their own coffee and they wouldn't get a paid vacation.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 20
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