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Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 7:54:16 PM   
Hermit


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Hello all, got a question that popped up of late.

I've been taking an 18 year old sub to local munches and some people have been twitchy because of her youth.

I was also told that 'anyone under 35 likely hasn't thought it through'

And we had a new girl who felt out of place because she was 23, s10 years younger than the next closest person in age.

Anyone else run into this problem?
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 8:01:23 PM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit

Hello all, got a question that popped up of late.

I've been taking an 18 year old sub to local munches and some people have been twitchy because of her youth.

I was also told that 'anyone under 35 likely hasn't thought it through'

And we had a new girl who felt out of place because she was 23, s10 years younger than the next closest person in age.

Anyone else run into this problem?



Hey, Y'all-
I've noticed this kind of "age discrimination", also. I don't get it. Whether you're 18 or 35, if you're new, you're new!! People should be a bit more accepting. I'm not sure what your munch mates mean by "thought it through", either. If she's just experiementing, she's just experimenting, but at least she's getting involved!!
I would just work extra hard to make sure that both of these young people felt accepted and like they were an important part of the community.
As Always
Berlin

_____________________________

new pictures!! www.ropexpert.com
also- you can catch me on www.ksexradio.com every tuesday. I co-host Baadmasters' Dungeon!!

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 8:10:39 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit
I was also told that 'anyone under 35 likely hasn't thought it through'


I agree with Berlin on this... I'm not sure what it means neither. Hell I'm 32 with over 10 years experience. I've thought it through darling!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzBerlin
Whether you're 18 or 35, if you're new, you're new!! People should be a bit more accepting.


Exactly. I meet men who are 40+ and new all the time. The thing about youth is that there is more of a chance that they be highly impressionable. A munch is probably a good place for them to be.

- LA



_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 9:13:44 PM   
MissA


Posts: 192
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		I encounter this quite a bit being young myself. People assume I'm not old enough to know who I am or what I want. When I'm in my thirties I'll have been in the lifestyle for more than a decade. I always try to reach out to those in the lifestyle around my age to let them know it's ok to be confident in feeling this is for them. I often get the same response from them, that they were considered to be less than genuine and couldn't possibly know that they want this lifestyle, all because of their age. Personally, I married a wonderful Man in His 40's and we get along beautifully despite the age difference. It just goes to show (pardon the cliche) you can't judge a book by it's cover - er, age...

~Ms. A~

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 9:14:43 PM   
MadameBette


Posts: 62
Joined: 9/8/2004
From: Long Island, NY
Status: offline 		Many of us have concerns for young people. I'd rather welcome them to munches rather than have them try to find someone on their own.

Actually, this is being addressed by numerous groups. One of the biggest concerns is that the younger people might be preyed upon by less than scrupulous older individuals, and are thus encouraged to stick to their own age groups.

There's pro's and con's to this.
You can get taken advantage of by someone your own age, so that's no guarantee. Also, some folks have a preference for a certain 'age type'. As far as 'experience' goes, I think that's a moot point.

At SUNY, (State Univ of NY) Syracuse, there is an on-campus group for students interested in BDSM. This is only one school of many nationwide.
In Chicago, there's a large group strictly for 21 - 35yo. TES in NYC also has a younger peoples group.
Just my two cents worth.

~ Bette

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 9:35:40 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:08:54 PM >

(in reply to MadameBette)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 11:30:09 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline

I checked the munch info I could find, and was surprised that Columbus doesn't have a GenX munch. You and your friend may want to look into starting one.

I think that since people equate age with experience, young Dominants are less accepted than young submissives. Not only are they not thought to have the D/s experience, they are thought to lack life experience. Unfortunately, I've talked to some 30 year old Dominants who make me worry about the subs they touch, and some 20 year old ones I think have good heads on their shoulders. The younger section of the population can be as serious about the lifestyle as someone older. Age is no indicator. Someone who is 30 may have 3 months of experience, while the 18 year old may have been pushing her boyfriend around since she first had one.

While I do agree that younger people can be more impressionable, to me, that is the main reason for getting them into a munch group where they have multiple opinions. You don't stifle a growing mind; you feed it. While someone young can be influenced, why is that bad if they are in a supportive environment? Influence can be for the good, such as instilling Safe, Sane and Consensual. I trust that the majority of people entering the lifestyle at 18 have a mind of their own. They can think for themselves. I'm going to pull out a trite argument. If they are old enough to die for their country, they are surely old enough to decide their own sexual path.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/24/2005 11:58:08 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		This is -exactly- the reason I am not invovled in the local community. The few experiences I've had have been so overwhelmingly negative, that I find it's not worth braving my SAD to get to something, because I'll be given looks 'cause I'm young.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to BeachMystress)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 12:32:36 AM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline 		The oldies try to run off the youngsters to avoid having to compete.

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 1:06:30 AM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline 		Yikes. A topic near and not so terribly dear to my heart...

I recently turned twenty. I've been going to a local Munch group every chance I get. But can I go to explore the beauty of cracking a whip properly? Can I find out how to intricately bind the body of a willing victi... er... um... hehe... volunteer?

The resounding answer is NOPE! I can vote. I can join up to fight for my country. I can sign contracts. I can have sex. But can I get into a club where there should not be alcohol present? Fat chance!

I'm willing to wait a year if I must. I'm willing to sit back and learn what I can from where I can without getting myself into too much trouble. Others aren't as lucky. Others wind up raped and dead in Motel 6. Others wind up on the news. And then we wind up on CSI! And people wonder why the writers of these shows don't portray this lifestyle in a more positive way.

News at ten: youth found strangled in botched bondage attempt.
News the next day: bodies found in cement filled drums with ball gags in their mouths, hands bound behind their backs.
News the next day: teenager found dead after auto erotic accident - faulty release to blame
...
ARG!!!

This is why I'll be creating a local dungeon for eighteen and up with heavy security, ID checking and no allowing spirits into the building. This is why I'll invite both Pro and non-Pro experienced members to lecture and demonstrate safe ways of everything from anal play to electro play to branding... if it's legal I'll be doing my level best to get someone in to talk about the practice!

< Message edited by MadameDahlia -- 2/25/2005 1:07:41 AM >

_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 2:03:02 AM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

Yikes. A topic near and not so terribly dear to my heart...

I recently turned twenty. I've been going to a local Munch group every chance I get. But can I go to explore the beauty of cracking a whip properly? Can I find out how to intricately bind the body of a willing victi... er... um... hehe... volunteer?

The resounding answer is NOPE! I can vote. I can join up to fight for my country. I can sign contracts. I can have sex. But can I get into a club where there should not be alcohol present? Fat chance!

I'm willing to wait a year if I must. I'm willing to sit back and learn what I can from where I can without getting myself into too much trouble. Others aren't as lucky. Others wind up raped and dead in Motel 6. Others wind up on the news. And then we wind up on CSI! And people wonder why the writers of these shows don't portray this lifestyle in a more positive way.

News at ten: youth found strangled in botched bondage attempt.
News the next day: bodies found in cement filled drums with ball gags in their mouths, hands bound behind their backs.
News the next day: teenager found dead after auto erotic accident - faulty release to blame
...
ARG!!!

This is why I'll be creating a local dungeon for eighteen and up with heavy security, ID checking and no allowing spirits into the building. This is why I'll invite both Pro and non-Pro experienced members to lecture and demonstrate safe ways of everything from anal play to electro play to branding... if it's legal I'll be doing my level best to get someone in to talk about the practice!


Dahlia-
I think that it's really up to us younger folks to create an environment where us Gen-Xers can go to learn about kink and different aspects of the lifestyle, to meet people and (most importantly) to LEARN. I just moved to LA and I'm astounded by the options available to me and my fellow perverts. I applaud you for being proactive.
Berlin

_____________________________

new pictures!! www.ropexpert.com
also- you can catch me on www.ksexradio.com every tuesday. I co-host Baadmasters' Dungeon!!

(in reply to MadameDahlia)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 2:08:19 AM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

The oldies try to run off the youngsters to avoid having to compete.


I think that is the least of the reasons that younger people aren't accepted. I'm sorry to hear that you feel challenged or unable to compete in a D/s setting. The BDSM lifestyle is about so much more than the outer shell, that to most, the youth doesn't matter. The person inside matters. My subs have ranged in age from 18 (last year for a few months) to 65. I personally prefer the older men. My general age used to be between 40 and 50. My current sub is 35. My preferring older men has nothing more to do with age than the fact that we have more in common because we grew up around the same time. I don't have much in common with today's average 18 year old. Does this mean I feel like I can't compete with them? Um.. no. I'm very secure in my worth in both the BDSM and Vanilla worlds.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to Paulnz)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 3:06:32 AM   
Hickory


Posts: 49
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

My preferring older men has nothing more to do with age than the fact that we have more in common because we grew up around the same time. I don't have much in common with today's average 18 year old.


I agree with you, BeachMystress. I am in my mid-forties. I have KIDS that are in their early twenties. Although I am very cool, for an old guy, (groovy, hip, mod, the cat’s pajamas - whatever the current term is), I find it is harder to find a common frame of reference with people my kids’ ages.

Another thought:

I have been involved in theatre for many years (as close as I have come to “scening”) and can work well with fellow actors who are much younger than I am, but there is more of an emotional distance than with folks closer to my age. In one show, my character was married to one played by a woman in her mid twenties (very talented, the character was 10 years older than the actor and she was magnificent) and our (very PG) love scenes were kind of…creepy. Even though carefully scripted and “choreographed”, there was something strange about getting physical with someone young enough to be my daughter. In other roles, with women closer to my age, I felt no such qualms. I wonder if this could contribute to the reticence that some “veteran” members feel toward the younger participants.


_____________________________

Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementia.
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness.
-Aristotle

(in reply to BeachMystress)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 5:30:17 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermit

Hello all, got a question that popped up of late.

I've been taking an 18 year old sub to local munches and some people have been twitchy because of her youth.

I was also told that 'anyone under 35 likely hasn't thought it through'

And we had a new girl who felt out of place because she was 23, s10 years younger than the next closest person in age.

Anyone else run into this problem?


Yes, I got active in the scene at 18. It's really stupid considering all the people who talk about how LUCKY I am to get into the scene so young, and how they WISH they had been able to, and how they'd ALWAYS known this was what they wanted.

But watch her try to assert herself and see how quickly she gets smacked down for being too young to know anything about anything.

Young people have the disadvantage of being young. The females are thought of as hot pussy bait for the horny doms and thus competition to the older females, and the males are simply dismissed as horny guys completely.

The GOOD news is that most big groups have TNG- The Next Generation groups which specialize in educating and socializing for the younger crowd. This is a big step towards recognizing and accepting youth into bdsm. Because with my generation and increasingly in the future, people are going to be exploring and involved in bdsm relationships AS they grow up, not ending nilla relationships and converting like most older people are now.

Granted, I was never the average kid. Most people my age and younger ARE clumsy at relationships and learning and do all the things that make me cringe. Oh well. Older people do the same.

What we need to do is BRIDGE the age gap, reach OUT to younger people and be welcoming and HELP them, instead of dismissing them which not only leaves them out in the cold but resentful of the older people who SHOULD be helping educate them and will bear the fruits of their ignorance.

(in reply to Hermit)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 5:36:33 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45
I too find it amusing that it will be possible this year to take my sub danielle to Black Rose where she will meet people with much less experience than her who will not take her seriouslyu because of her age. It sucks; but that is life. Find people who do not harbor those prejudices and jealousies and have fun.


The 19 year limit for BR has been the topic of MUCH conflict and discussion and continues to be. Unfortunately, the age limit for BESS bdsm functions is even higher at 21.

Personal BR feelings aside, I can tell you for sure that she would be welcomed and appreciated at BESS, the least of which being me and other people who are VERY active, all under 30 and all got into this in our teens.

(in reply to lovingmaster45)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 5:42:34 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

The oldies try to run off the youngsters to avoid having to compete.



So why is it that 39 - 55 year olds are constantly sending the "18-25" year olds the bulk of the mail that they get online ?



As tot he OP, try looking for "TNG" groups (*The Next Generation) in your area. Do a Yahoo group search. There is a bunch of them all over the country. I and Somnovi are involved in the Albany one, and there is one in Boston, and Rochester NY aswell as NYC.

(in reply to Paulnz)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 5:53:40 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline 		The difference in "young people" is often "inexerience", and it also translates to just "kinky sex" in sone kids minds.

I'm 28, I have 4 years experience and then a bit more with online reading and forums.

There are some people that have "10 years in the lifestyle" but have not got a fucking clue how to throw a flogger, but they can write a 200 word reply how to do it online, and have never done it IRL.

I find the problem with "youth and oldies" is a mental mind block with "old fat and ugly... saggy skin versus Young, tight bodys, lithe, and ..... welll yeah youth"

No one wants to see their Dads' Golf partner at the same kinky function as his daughter who was just at high school graduation a day earlier.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the "experienced" older crowd is very judgemental to "radicalist" and people who have a completely different approach to things that they hold "sacred".

Personaly, I believe Maturity is the key here. It comes with experience and time in the REAL LIFE experience, yet "maturity" does not mean that one has to be "adult"......

I rather like keeping my relationship light and fairly unencumbering.... it has worked very well for us in a 24/7 very real time relationship. I know tht there are older members of a local group we also are involved in who despise what we have and who we are because what they have not been able to find in 20 + years, we have found and been happy in our own skin and comfortable in the relationship tot he point that we no longer need to "postulate and fluff our chest" in a male Bravado and cookie-cutter sub stereotype .

HTH.

_____________________________

Some of us have an inane knack for calling people on their Bullshit... I just choose to retort with bitter dry Sarcasm, and occasionaly it sinks in. Mostly, I just look like an ass.

(in reply to Darthbetta)
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RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 5:59:11 AM   
Darthbetta


Posts: 314
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

This is -exactly- the reason I am not invovled in the local community. The few experiences I've had have been so overwhelmingly negative, that I find it's not worth braving my SAD to get to something, because I'll be given looks 'cause I'm young.



then you should turn that into something that fuels you and makes you want to be BETTER than them.

Many groups look upon newcomers and especialy younger people with eyes of distrust and contempt... I had to deal with it too, but then again, once they get to know you, perhaps they will see that your heart is in the right place. Even if you only find 2 or 3 peole within the group that are approachable, you are better off than not being involved localy...... UNLESS the group is a bunch of retarded closeminded gasbags...... then, F-um.
I t takes some time to figure out who is full of chit, and who knows WTF is really going on.

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 6:10:53 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darthbetta
No one wants to see their Dads' Golf partner at the same kinky function as his daughter who was just at high school graduation a day earlier.

You'd be surprised...at last years Black Rose convention they had an entire panel on connecting with younger crowd and coming out to your kids. On the panel was a lifestyle dom and his vanilla son, and a lifestyle dominant and her submissive daughter.

They each had their own boundaries of what they were ok with sharing and what they weren't, and that's normal. I'm such an out person that I usually have to pick up on the other persons comfort level and adjust myself down to that.

But I think it's something we need to start adjusting to and getting used to- people my age and younger and going to be increasingly out in the scene and it is going to become increasingly more "acceptable" and, to the elitists "watered down." It's going to take a lot of adjustment and a lot of back and forth and people being told they are bad for what they do, but it is inevitable IMO.

We're going to have to learn how to balance everything, because the future generations aren't going to be happy just being in the closet, being underground and not heard.

Granted, this is slow in coming, I don't expect any radical changes in the next 2 generations, but it's already starting.

(in reply to Darthbetta)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Youth and Offline groups - 2/25/2005 9:14:17 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darthbetta
then you should turn that into something that fuels you and makes you want to be BETTER than them.

Many groups look upon newcomers and especialy younger people with eyes of distrust and contempt... I had to deal with it too, but then again, once they get to know you, perhaps they will see that your heart is in the right place. Even if you only find 2 or 3 peole within the group that are approachable, you are better off than not being involved localy...... UNLESS the group is a bunch of retarded closeminded gasbags...... then, F-um.
I t takes some time to figure out who is full of chit, and who knows WTF is really going on.



This is where the SAD part crops up. I've been to exactly two "social" things. The negative responses were so overwhelming it's going to take a -lot- of work to be able to get out again without having a panic attack.

Form my own? Working on it. Bit harder than you think :) as you have to =find= the people who are interested first, then be able to actually call/meet them, which is often quite difficult for me.

Yep, I'm whining without providing a soulution. I -will- give it another try, but I'm going to wait untill I'm at least 25, then I can say "I've been invovled for 10 years ha ha ha" and hopefully I'll have learned to better control said panic attacks by then :)

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Darthbetta)
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