RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 10:54:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

At any rate, without any knowledge of her true background... if in fact she really holds the credentials she claims... I wouldn't place much stock in the tenability of her work.



None of us have any knowledge of your true background, which by your own estimation means your opinion is worthless.  In case you want to further your education,  I googled her name and got lots and lots of information.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Elizabeth+De+La+Vega

Thank you for the clarification that you dont bother to research your opinions.

Sinergy




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:04:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

At any rate, without any knowledge of her true background... if in fact she really holds the credentials she claims... I wouldn't place much stock in the tenability of her work.



None of us have any knowledge of your true background, which by your own estimation means your opinion is worthless.  In case you want to further your education,  I googled her name and got lots and lots of information.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Elizabeth+De+La+Vega

Thank you for the clarification that you dont bother to research your opinions.

Sinergy


*cough, cough*

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

In fact, that's all I could find out about her in over 36 pages of Google results. 



Next time, read more carefully. 

And did you happen to look through the results of your Google search?  They all appear to be articles and press releases about her book, and other promotions.




Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:08:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

Next time, read more carefully. 



I agree.

My post was about the fact that none of us know anything about your qualifications.

So please read more carefully.

Sinergy




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:08:18 PM)

Stories by Elizabeth de la Vega
Elizabeth de la Vega is a former federal prosecutor. Her pieces have appeared in The Nation, the L.A. Times, Salon, and Mother Jones.

http://www.alternet.org/authors/7496/

Seems she is a former fed prosecutor turned journalist, found it the first page on that google list[;)]




Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:13:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Seems she is a former fed prosecutor turned journalist, found it the first page on that google list[;)]



juliaoceania,

I think a valuable quote to describe much of this thread is...

"You can lead a person to knowledge, but you cannot make them think."

Just me, etc.

Sinergy




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:14:18 PM)

I think I ripped that off from you Daddy[;)]




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:14:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Stories by Elizabeth de la Vega
Elizabeth de la Vega is a former federal prosecutor. Her pieces have appeared in The Nation, the L.A. Times, Salon, and Mother Jones.

http://www.alternet.org/authors/7496/

Seems she is a former fed prosecutor turned journalist, found it the first page on that google list[;)]


*blinks*  I do believe I already stated that I found that much. 

For what it's worth, I could write a piece of fiction that outlines corruption in the insurance industry and claim I had thirty years experience as an insurance analyst... but it wouldn't make it true.




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:16:01 PM)

She has 20 years as a federal prosecutor, unless you think that mainstream news organizations would misrepresent her credentials, you seriously do not want me to buy that do you? I mean that would thoroughly amuse me to no end, but surely you jest!




Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:17:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Stories by Elizabeth de la Vega
Elizabeth de la Vega is a former federal prosecutor. Her pieces have appeared in The Nation, the L.A. Times, Salon, and Mother Jones.

http://www.alternet.org/authors/7496/

Seems she is a former fed prosecutor turned journalist, found it the first page on that google list[;)]


*blinks*  I do believe I already stated that I found that much. 

For what it's worth, I could write a piece of fiction that outlines corruption in the insurance industry and claim I had thirty years experience as an insurance analyst... but it wouldn't make it true.



Of course, it might be true in your mind.  Which would mean that any attempts to clarify objective reality, provide empirical evidence, proffer expert sources, etc.,  to you would crash into a wreck on the rocky shoals of your preconceived notions.

As I said, I can lead you to knowledge but I cannot make you think.

Sinergy




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She has 20 years as a federal prosecutor, unless you think that mainstream news organizations would misrepresent her credentials, you seriously do not want me to buy that do you? I mean that would thoroughly amuse me to no end, but surely you jest!


Mainstream news organizations?  Perhaps I missed the interviews with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, AP, Reuters...

I'm not asking you to buy anything.  I'm merely pointing out that whether she does or not, I find nothing to support that she possesses the credentials that she claims.  Before I would consider a fictional work as basis for legal indictment, I'd like to know that the author was qualified.  At least have corroboration from a more reasonable source than her publicist.




Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:30:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She has 20 years as a federal prosecutor, unless you think that mainstream news organizations would misrepresent her credentials, you seriously do not want me to buy that do you? I mean that would thoroughly amuse me to no end, but surely you jest!


Mainstream news organizations?  Perhaps I missed the interviews with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, AP, Reuters...

I'm not asking you to buy anything.  I'm merely pointing out that whether she does or not, I find nothing to support that she possesses the credentials that she claims.  Before I would consider a fictional work as basis for legal indictment, I'd like to know that the author was qualified.  At least have corroboration from a more reasonable source than her publicist.



Perhaps if you and FirmKY did your homework, you might learn something.

Sinergy




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:33:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

*blinks*  I do believe I already stated that I found that much. 

For what it's worth, I could write a piece of fiction that outlines corruption in the insurance industry and claim I had thirty years experience as an insurance analyst... but it wouldn't make it true.



Of course, it might be true in your mind.  Which would mean that any attempts to clarify objective reality, provide empirical evidence, proffer expert sources, etc.,  to you would crash into a wreck on the rocky shoals of your preconceived notions.

As I said, I can lead you to knowledge but I cannot make you think.

Sinergy


Well... I'm not the one ready to impeach the President because some woman wrote a book that says he should be.  [;)]




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:35:18 PM)

I consider the LA Times Mainstream




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:37:15 PM)

quote:

Well... I'm not the one ready to impeach the President because some woman wrote a book that says he should be.  [;)]


Would you support looking into the charges that she makes?

I would think that one would want possible corruption examined and dealt with, unless there is something to hide of course.




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:45:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I consider the LA Times Mainstream


And just what does the Los Angeles Times have to say about Ms. De La Vega?  [;)]




juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 11:57:04 PM)

She has written for them

I listen to democracy now every morning. They are listener sponsored radio. They have had many mainstream reporters on their program, and are a reputable source. She has featured Elizabeth de la Vega, and stated her credentials also. I believe in Amy Goodman and she is more reputable to me than ABC and CBS.

Amy Goodman (b. April 13, 1957 in Bay Shore, New York) is an American broadcast journalist and author.
Goodman graduated from Harvard University in 1984. She is best known today as a radio personality and the host of Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now! program, where she has been described as "radio's voice of the disenfranchised left".[1] Criticism of the corporate media and coverage of the antiwar and anti-globalization movements are the hallmarks of Goodman's work, although she holds regular discussions on a variety of topics. As an investigative journalist, she has pursued and exposed human rights violations in East Timor, Nigeria, and other countries.

Here is where she is listed on the LA Times within their search engines in archived stories,.... really easy to check if you were not so busy just claiming someone is not who they claim to be and more interested in who they are. But I am used to researching so it only took me a minute to find it.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=Elizabeth+de+la+Vega+&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=0&frommonth=01&fromday=01&fromyear=1985&tomonth=01&today=09&toyear=2007&By=&Title=&at=ALL&Sect=ALL&x=39&y=22




UtopianRanger -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/9/2007 12:00:47 AM)

quote:

UT,

I read the article by Lind.  Although I'm not really sure what your point is, exactly.


Hey FHKY.....



My point is that short of carpet bombing the whole Iraqi population into pulverized dust, the war is over. And in the minds of many, will go down as biggest political /military blunder in the history of this republic.  

The ‘’surge’’ as they’re calling it…..or any other new strategy as proposed by those wearing ‘’bow ties’’ and coke-bottle-thick, horn rimmed glasses, over at the American Enterprise Institute, is not going to work. If there was some way for me to make a wager on this in Vegas, I’d bet large amounts of money.  

The true folly in all this is that after so many mistakes, we never seem to learn our lesson. Ike told us back in the late 50’s, that the era of Imperialism is over. No population in the modern world is prepared to be ruled by a foreign occupier ; no matter of their vast weaponry or good intentions.  

I think what we are seeing now, is nothing other than a imperialist mentality refusing to relinquish it’s grasp on new territory in light of a failed conquest – It’s the ultimate of arrogance in the face of defeat. And if the American people we’re really in charge {and not an oligarchy}, they would have abandoned this stupidness long ago.


quote:

I know William Lind's ideas, and his history pretty well.  I have an original copy of his "Manuver Warfare" booklet, and studied it when I was responsible for strategy and tactics.  Excellent book.


But, over the years, he has lost a lot of credibility.



Ok…. You’ve worked in what, S-2 S-3, maybe? It’s been twenty years….and I think that’s what we officialy referred to it in the Marines.  

Who has he lost credibility with?  The good folks at CENTCOM or maybe CPOST or one of the other neocon think tanks?  

Wouldn’t you agree that right now that might be construed as a vote of confidence.  
I think Lind’s writings on strategy and the prospect of encirclement with regard to Iraq, have been garnered from that of a historical perspective.  

If we look at back in the mid nineteenth century, early twentieth century, I think the British Army was an invading force on three separate occasions, only to be beaten back and / or encircled and then taken prisoner.  

The nature of the ‘’landlockness’’ of both Afghanistan and Iraq from a logistical standpoint has made it virtually impossible to conquer and then occupy for any significant period of time. The only thing that’s changed is the potential to be airlifted out, at the point of encirclement Don’t you agree…..doesn’t history tell us that?  

I mean c’mon…..look what just happened with Lebanon. The Israelis turned the place into rubble with air power…..but as soon as they sent ground forces into control the landscape, they got beat down and lost upwards of seventy of the most elite and technology sophisticated tanks in the world in a little over 60 days.  

I think the cycle of evolution in the plight for inovative, modern warfare tactics with regard to supposed inferior gorilla forces, is much faster than that of the imperialists, and I think this is where W. Lind is also partially coming from.

By the way…. In that last post {I forgot} I kinda meant to have this article connected with Lind’s just to point out a very new and intuitively smart perspective on a generation of warfare.  Both write for many of the same /similar websites


http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/robb_opensource_war.htm



- R




losttreasure -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/9/2007 12:06:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

She has written for them...

...Here is where she is listed on the LA Times within their search engines in archived stories,.... really easy to check if you were not so busy just claiming someone is not who they claim to be and more interested in who they are. But I am used to researching so it only took me a minute to find it.

Edited to remove the lengthy link.


It appears that my research was a bit more thorough.

Ms. De La Vega had one commentary published in the editorial section of the LA Times in 2005 regarding a current case that is closely tied with her assertations concerning our President.  A smart move for someone wishing to promote the sale of her book.

However, I do not believe that by running Ms. De La Vega's commentary, the Los Angeles Times is either confirming or endorsing her background and qualifications.

It's interesting to note, though, that having that one commentary published gave Ms. De La Vega one more plume to put in her biographical cap.

Again... I'm not claiming that she is or is not what she says.  I'm merely saying that I find nothing to support her stated background, and as such, I certainly wouldn't consider her fictional book as a basis for legal action.




farglebargle -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/9/2007 5:08:16 AM)

The internet's a wonderful place. ( HOW well did you actually READ the Google Results??? )

Go ask her for a copy of her CV, we're bored with your pointless distractions. Since you didn't even read the FIRST 2 LINES of the model indictment post, why should we bother listening to you?

[Mod Note:  email address removed]




farglebargle -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/9/2007 5:12:09 AM)

You didn't even read the model indictment. Go actually read it, and remember what the VERY FIRST LINES SAY.

Confine your defense to the facts in evidence.

Please reference the numbered/lettered section.

I'm tired of your pointless spinning FirmWhatever says, "What Facts", he gets an enumerated list and says, "It's unattributed", I point out his lack of care vetting the source and now YOU start the whining.

This is about whether the crime of violating 18 USC 371 has occurred. Here's a Model Indictment. If you have a DEFENSE against the facts-in-evidence, let's hear it, or kindly STFU.







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