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Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 9:13:25 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.

I recieved that as a first message today. Now it hasn't offended me or angered me, thats not the point of my post. It has made me wonder though :-
 
I personally have made a choice to submit to my God, in general a choice to be submissive. I do feel that i am naturally submissive but still i made the choice to follow through with the life submissiveness brings me. As the poem by Rosaleen young titled 'two women (the submissive to the suffragette) says -
 
If you please ma'am calm your rage
Your gift i'll not ignore
'Twas choice you gave and choice i take
As slave to man once more.
 
So personally whilst i agree that i was born to serve and i accept it and am happier for it obviously not all women feel the same. I still feel i made a choice though.
I'm wondering if anyone (and im sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?
 
The second question this memo made me ask is the person who sent me this memos opinion is obviously that all women should serve man. Why would he have this opinion? I find it hard to believe in this day and age that someone would have this opinion. Is it possible that he has just been around submissive women so long that he feels all women should be the same? Or is the first thing that sprung to my mind closer to the truth, that he is just a sexist pig?

Edited to add - if i had brains i'd be dangerous, i meant to post this in off topic lol - doh

< Message edited by missturbation -- 1/7/2007 9:23:12 AM >

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 9:21:41 AM   
QuietlySeeking


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I've had this discussion with a Domme friend of mine.  Neither of us could conceive of submitting to the other, simply because it is not who we are.

I do, believe, that people naturally fit into a dominant/submissive personality.  Can it be changed?  Yes.  Do I choose to change it within myself?  No.

Ultimately, I think you are correct.  We choose who we are.  In my case, it was a logical choice because I do not feel the need or desire to submit.  Without that need/desire, I would be a pretty poor submissive...IMHO.

(in reply to missturbation)
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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 9:36:41 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

I'm wondering if anyone (and I'm sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?


wow, tough question, since technically i am a switch i would say that what i feel no choice about is the desire to explore and push boundaries with my lovers and with in myself....i have a deep need for intimacy with my partners, to get in their heads and to form nourishing relationships that support us both i have found that what works for me is structure, accountability and probing self awareness,  qualitys i find more prevelent in D/s dynamics then in vanillia.
 

quote:

  Why would he have this opinion?


i think it is more fantasy then anything else and wishful thinking...
 
 
 
quote:

Is it possible that he has just been around submissive women so long that he feels all women should be the same? Or is the first thing that sprung to my mind closer to the truth, that he is just a sexist pig?


no i really dont think there are many men that really truly feel that way, i think that sure many might talk a good game of it, but women are so powerful, erotic, mystical, alluring, and sensual, not to mention they are so strong, nurturing, intuitive  and they can give life...there is no way to really feel that .....but i think what does happen more often then not, is that a man often times will feel inferior to the majestic creature that is a woman, and attempt to address that inferiority by making gauche statements to put in in her place....instead of doing some self evaluation and figure out why he feels that way and then adress it in a heathly way....so no one needs to be torn down so he can feel better about himself.

now you might read this and think that i am a female supremest, but i am not, i dont believe in either or. I dont understand why women cant be all those things and why men can be celebrated for the wonderful amazing creatures they are too...
 
 
 

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 1/7/2007 9:42:25 AM >

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 9:46:13 AM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.


says who?

sounds like a little boy quoting a man law. i wasn't put on this earth to serve man only. i'm also here to nurture, be a helpmate, mother, lover, etc - to serve part is bottom on the list.

how about serving us women for a change


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there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.

collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 9:55:32 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I do, believe, that people naturally fit into a dominant/submissive personality.  Can it be changed?  Yes.  Do I choose to change it within myself?  No.
I had a discussion last night with a friend about changing your personality. We decided between us that in our opinion though outwardly you can show a different personality that we dont think you can change it inside.
 
Ultimately, I think you are correct.  We choose who we are.
Its the right answer for you and i and maybe others but i think that we may see (or i hope to anyway) some people who feel they do not have a choice.
 


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 10:01:55 AM   
missturbation


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mymasterssub69

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.


says who?

sounds like a little boy quoting a man law. i wasn't put on this earth to serve man only. i'm also here to nurture, be a helpmate, mother, lover, etc - to serve part is bottom on the list.
Me too. Although serving my God certainly isnt bottom of my list.

how about serving us women for a change
Does your dominant serve you?



 

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 10:25:02 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Some women are born to serve and others are not. However although I am submissive to one does not mean I would ever submit to someone who used text speak. Some things are hard limits.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 10:32:26 AM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: mymasterssub69

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.


says who?

sounds like a little boy quoting a man law. i wasn't put on this earth to serve man only. i'm also here to nurture, be a helpmate, mother, lover, etc - to serve part is bottom on the list.
Me too. Although serving my God certainly isnt bottom of my list.

how about serving us women for a change
Does your dominant serve you?



 


it wasn't suppose to be taken literally however yes in His own way, Daddy does serve me


_____________________________

there is something infinitely magical
about a Daddy Dom
...something only a little girl
can understand.

collared on 16th Jan 2007 by bigsambaman, my Daddy

(in reply to missturbation)
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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 10:34:17 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Some women are born to serve and others are not
I agree but that isn't what i was asking. I was asking if you feel you have a choice to be submissive or not.

However although I am submissive to one does not mean I would ever submit to someone who used text speak. Some things are hard limits.
I wasnt talking about choice of partner i was talking about choice of submission.
 
Thank you for your reply though.



_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 10:38:13 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.

I feel I am naturally submissive ( I hesitate to use that term because my Daddy hates it...smiles). I have no other way to describe the way I feel inside other than to say I feel that way naturally. Do I have to display it? No. Do I have to act on it to be fulfilled and happy? No.

What I mean by that is I do not feel I was put here to serve a man and that will make me "happy". If that was all there was to me and my life, that would make me unhappy. I love to serve my Daddy, I love giving to him, but that is not why I was born, that does not make me happy to the exclusion of everything else.

I would find a way to be happy no matter what happens, it is not dependent on my relationship with others, it is a frame of mind that I choose.


On edit, I think people that serve others tend to be more happy in life no matter their orientation.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/7/2007 10:39:18 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 11:10:19 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Sorry for being flippant.

I can't imagine having entered into a D/s relationship at the age of 18 for example. I would have ended up being resentful by losing opportunities to discover myself along the way.

As far as choosing submission, it directly relates to my partner. Whether or not I felt submissive does not mean I do not have the choice to act upon these feelings. I could have volunteered to fulfill these feelings and never have become submissive to a dominant. I chose to become his submissive because I trust him as I have never trusted another.

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 11:16:04 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Am I born to serve, yes. Am I born submissive, no. MAJOR difference. 
I have spent most of my adult life helping others who are in need of help.  I have worked with abused women, I have worked with underpriveledged children and the terminally ill of all ages. I have spent tons of time and effort making sure that I can make whatever difference I can for them within my abilities.  There is very little quite as satisfying as making a child smile on the holidays when they had thought and accepted they were going to have to go without.
I doubt this is quite the attitude that the email sender had in mind.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 1:06:49 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Yes I was born to serve.  My life would have been better off if I had not fought that part of me and accepted it early on.  But I didn't, and I'm in a good place now, so that was a journey I had to take.

I know several men who believe in the "natural order" whereby women were born to serve men.  Then again there are also women who believe in female supremacy.  I would bet they wouldn't match up well as couples :)

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 1:07:20 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'm wondering if anyone (and im sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?


I've a choice.  I could be dominant quite easily and with some good know how, i think it wouldnt be all that difficult to be a Domme.  I wouldnt be a hard personality trait to pull forward and i could live life that way.  Infact i have.  More in the sense of a vanilla Domme.  Other then keeping things in order and being pampered it doesnt do a darn thing for me. 

So i've a choice.  i could feed the emotionless side of me.. continue being cold, uncaring, uninvolved, unattached.. and keeping my life in absolute order - with no worries, no stress, no emotional upheavels

Or i can feed my soul


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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 1:25:49 PM   
ardelle


Posts: 63
Status: offline 		Greetings
 
my opinion may not be the most popular, but I do believe that women were born to serve. In terms of submission though; I believe that each of us chooses to whom we shall submit.
 
 

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 1:41:21 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		The question of if I feel that I have no choice but to be submissive, to take it literally, no I do not feel I have a choice. Between my natural demeanor and the culture I was brought up in I could never see myself any other way then submissive to people I have feelings for, especially men. But, I like what DiurnalVampire wrote “Am I born to serve, yes. Am I born submissive, no.” I do not feel at all I stumbled into being a nurse and taking care of people and getting paid for it was a win/win thing for me. At the same time though I may not be as happy as I could but I could live a vanilla life with the right person and live a fulfilling life. I was born and raise submissive and not born or raised to be a slave and to that degree of submissiveness.

Your second question I think OP answered it herself. He probably thinks all women should serve men is because of some environmental influence. It could have been a good or bad influence to form his opinion. Personally because it is a gross generalization I find it on the ignorant side but I cannot call him a sexist pig. I grew up in the Eastern Culture where it is the way of life for almost all women to be submissive to men. It does not make all men of this culture are sexist pigs. I have too many relatives and friends, including my Dad and Brother who might make a statement of that nature and I know they are not sexist pigs. To me a big difference to saying a woman should serve a man then women are inferior to men which to me sexist pig would infer.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 1:51:12 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I was born submissive, its my personality, who I am...therefore, I have no choice.

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Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 2:24:15 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

women r born to serve. earlier they accept it, happier their life will be.

I recieved that as a first message today. Now it hasn't offended me or angered me, thats not the point of my post. It has made me wonder though :-
 
I personally have made a choice to submit to my God, in general a choice to be submissive. I do feel that i am naturally submissive but still i made the choice to follow through with the life submissiveness brings me. As the poem by Rosaleen young titled 'two women (the submissive to the suffragette) says -
 
If you please ma'am calm your rage
Your gift i'll not ignore
'Twas choice you gave and choice i take
As slave to man once more.
 
So personally whilst i agree that i was born to serve and i accept it and am happier for it obviously not all women feel the same. I still feel i made a choice though.
I'm wondering if anyone (and im sure the answer will be yes for some) feels they have no choice but to be submissive /dominant?
 
The second question this memo made me ask is the person who sent me this memos opinion is obviously that all women should serve man. Why would he have this opinion? I find it hard to believe in this day and age that someone would have this opinion. Is it possible that he has just been around submissive women so long that he feels all women should be the same? Or is the first thing that sprung to my mind closer to the truth, that he is just a sexist pig?

Edited to add - if i had brains i'd be dangerous, i meant to post this in off topic lol - doh


I think the "born to serve" stuff is crap beneath responding to.

I'm posting to share the thought that  a conception of submission which does not involve choice seems to move away from what lies at the heart of the concept. To me this has to do with one person imposing his or her will, another subjugating his or her will. 

If you are submitting to me without choosing to then your behavior means no more to me than the performance of my washing machine or lawn mower. I push their buttons and they go, or fail mechanically. If you have no choice but to submit to me then when I push your buttons you will will go, or else fail mechanically. Ho hum.

I get no domly kick out of it when my car engine turns over in response to my key. It has no choice. Does it stir anyone's domly juices when some choiceless automaton reacts in a way that it has to react? Weird kink, in my book.

I'm in it for the meanings as well as the experiences. I can see no meaning, none whatsoever, in the submission of what amounts to a machine who has no choice but to submit.

Should I be gratified when I drop a stone and it falls "for me"? I think I'd be a fool. The stone is just "doing what it has to do" as that preposterously overused expression says. Why should that dropping have any particular significance to me? Far less should I care for and value that stone insofar as it fell "for me". It has no choice.

I'd no sooner spend time with a person incapable of exercising her own will than with one who was incapable of exercising her own mind.

A willing mind in an utterly inert body would be far more attractive, and interesting, if only that inertia didn't preclude communication.

I see human beings as beings of will. Self-controlled. For another human being to willingly--not of some "born necessity"--subjugate herself to me, well that it something powerfully significant.

If I were to learn that she had no choice, could no more choose not to not submit than the stone could choose not to fall then she would immediately be transformed into something subhuman in my eyes, beneath the reach of  care.

This is as different as can be from the  fully human, willing being who wishes to submit her will to mine, even to the extent of  performing as responsively and reliably as a machine; to be deeply objectified. But it is her choice, not the mechanical operations of her limbs, which fills the relationship with meaning for me.

In fact, since I believe that willing is constitutive of humanity I think anyone lies to himself who says: I have no choice. This sort of moral blindness does not mark them as sub-human, to me, beneath the reach of care. Pity is a sort of care. But it cordons them off from any personal interest on my part beyond an urge to show them that they in fact are fully human. They are willing beings, irrespective of their staunch denials. You might as well deny that your body takes up space.

When they submit they make a choice and it can be a  very beautiful thing.Why obscure this with some insupportable claim to be less than human, lacking the ability to exercise your own will? I celebrate your choice to submit in a healthy relationship, whomever you may be. What a shame if instead of celebrating it yourself you formulate this sort of a myth: That It Couldn't Be Otherwise.

I'm aware that every single time someone special submits to me in this or that particular she has indeed made a choice; a choice in my favor. The people special to me are aware of this too and we each value and celebrate that willingness, that act of will.

My barnyard and toolshed are full of things that bend to my will of necessity. Things that have no choice. My heart and my bed are occupied by fully human, willing beings whose choice in favor of me is born again each day, in each moment of our interactions.





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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 2:52:03 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Noah I see your point but I would like to counter it.  It was absolutely my choice to submit to my Master, and to develop that submission to it's level best.  It was not my choice to be born with a characteristic which compells me to express myself in this way, any more than it was my choice to be born with a musical talent which had me playing the piano by ear at the age of 4.

Would you disregard Chopin because he was born with such a unique quality?  Or would you appreciate and value his drive to do something with such a talent - to take what he was born with and develop it, and nurture it, and expand it?  Had he composed a piece specifically for another person, should that person find little value it in because dear Frederick had the talent, drive and need to play?  Or should such person become touched that Chopin would develop a piece specifically for him/her...had taken the time and honed his skills created a piece intended for no one else?

Hmm, I'm not sure this analogy is working, and I hope you get the gist of it.  I may have been born submissive, and I may have searched for just the right place to express this need in me.  Now, my Master is by no means an easy man to please.  He is typically unbending and very determined.  He knows what he wants and will state it.  I could choose to comply or not. If not, I would not be his.  I could choose to succumb to his way of developing me.  I could choose to not obey.  But I would not be his. 

He developed me, tuned me, orchestrated me.  I could have resisted.  At times I wanted to resist.  But I worked very hard to meet his requirements and to raise myself to his bar.  I submit only to him, however.  He would not value my submission as he does if it were easy to come by and if I were offering it to everyone.  Only he moves me.  Only he inspires me as I am inspired.  And only he could compell me to do the things I do for him.  For those reasons, I feel contrary to your point. 

Now, I do understand your point of if someone's submission is easy to come by it would have little value to you.  Similar to your dropping a rock analogy.  But I do not necessarily agree that because someone is born to submit his/her submission is meaningless.  It's what we choose to do with it....isn't it?

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RE: Born to serve ? - 1/7/2007 4:32:57 PM   
Zsuzsanna


Posts: 108
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I was born submissive, its my personality, who I am...therefore, I have no choice.


same here.

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