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Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 12:18:33 PM   
BBWinOhio


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline 		I an new to the submissive lifestyle, with no real experience. I've met a man and although I have not yet formally been collared, we had planned to do so in the coming week.

I masturbated and had an orgasm without his permission. For that, he has ordered four days without an orgasm and 100 spanks, even though he had told me that 10 spanks would be given for a first offense. He has said that he will spank me until I cry.

Am I wrong to think that this is insane? Extreme? One hundred spanks is bad enough, but four days without an orgasm? I'm being set up to fail.

I would appreciate anyone's viewpoint, positive or negative.

Thank you.
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 12:42:13 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBWinOhio
I've met a man and although I have not yet formally been collared

I masturbated and had an orgasm without his permission. For that, he has ordered four days without an orgasm and 100 spanks, even though he had told me that 10 spanks would be given for a first offense. He has said that he will spank me until I cry.

Am I wrong to think that this is insane? Extreme? One hundred spanks is bad enough, but four days without an orgasm? I'm being set up to fail.

Did you 2 discuss types of offenses and punishment to fit the offense? I would beg his permission to discuss that specifically: Say to him that he told you a first offense would only beget you 10 spanks, and that you're having a difficult time understanding why he has ordered such severe punishment.

If he ordered no masturbation without his permission and you did, than it's not him setting you up to fail, it's you sabotaging your relationship by specifically going against his wishes without first begging his permission.
Communicate with him about your wishes/needs/desires, and as a good Dom he should listen and take those things into consideration.

It's interesting different perspectives: I would rather go 100 days without orgasm than endure being beaten until I cry; than again I never have to consider that since I'm a Domme, and don't do pain on self.
Good Luck, M


_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 12:53:46 PM   
PaintedLady


Posts: 35
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		There are more than a few questions here, as I see it.

I have found it really really important to be really clear on what is an order, and what is not, especially in the brginning of a relationship. This goes double for punishment. If he is just pushing, testing boundaries, that is one thing- but if he is being sloppy and random, that is , to me, a very bad thing.

Shifting the Punishment around is a big no no for me. If I am going to be 'punished' it better not be random- If i am submitting to someone- even if it isn't recognised yet- it is all about me doing my best to please- just failing in that is punishment enough. Setting me up to fail- outside of a joking type of thing- is really mean.

my big question is- if you are new to D/s, and just met him, and are talking collars, and having communication issues already,

Have you really thought this through?

_____________________________

"beware the fury of a patient man"
-John Dryen

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 1:13:45 PM   
BBWinOhio


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/26/2005
Status: offline

my big question is- if you are new to D/s, and just met him, and are talking collars, and having communication issues already,

Have you really thought this through?
[/quote]


I am new in that I have no real experience yet. I've done quite a bit of research and am well-versed in my expectations and wants. We have been talking for a few weeks and I finally decided that, yes, this (he) is what I want. Up to this point, it has been fabulous. We've agreed on almost everything. He is kind, caring, intelligent, witty. But he did specifically say 10 spanks for a first offense.

When I reminded him of that, he stated that the 100 spanks is not for him.... It's for me, so that I won't have an orgasm without his permissin again.

It's the inconsistency that worries me. Also, four days without an orgasm..... I honestly don't know if I can do that. I never have before. He knows that I am a highly sexed person (I am 33), and that I am accustomed to having at least one a day, usually more.

I worry that the inconsistency in punishment is a sign of things to come. If this is it at the beginning, what will happen down the road? Can I trust a man to tie me up if he's already done something to prove to me that he doesn't keep his word?

(in reply to PaintedLady)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 2:50:43 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:02:52 PM >

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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 4:30:53 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		You're submitting to it. You made your bed now sleep in it. As far as I'm concerned not only are you getting what you deserve but also getting off far to easy. Be thankfull you are serving one so nice and kind.

So you can't go without orgasim for 4 days eh? The way around it is to be around him as possible. Wear as little as possibe. Be all over him. Make him horney. After all, can he go without doing the naughty with you for 4 days? He's punishing himself more than he is you.

Back to your punishment. Just get your spanking and get it over with. the sooner the better and you have hopefully learned something.



_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 4:37:08 PM   
Shayna


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		I'm just taking what you're saying at face value, but knowing someone for weeks isn't knowing much at all. Especially when you are considering trusting someone with your well being, which is what submitting is in my book (which may be different than yours...). You need to experience what someone is like in lots of different kinds of situations to start really talking about building trust. I just think you need more time - no one usually regrets going slowly, but many people regret going fast.

As far as punishment, orgasm control is very central for many couples. Personally, I don't think 4 days is much at all. But your Dom should know you well, and perhaps for you he should start with 2 days and work up.

I'd take a few steps back and have more conversations with him about all this. Better up front, than down the road. Good luck!

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 5:06:34 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I an new to the submissive lifestyle, with no real experience. I've met a man and although I have not yet formally been collared, we had planned to do so in the coming week.


Hrm....things seem to be moving fairly quickly. As you explain that you are discussing a collar, I wonder if you are also discussing a contract? Concidering you are a self proclaimed 'newbie', I would think that you would not only expect, but be firm on a contract, as they tend to spell out, in detail, what expectations are, from both sides of the power exchange.

quote:

I masturbated and had an orgasm without his permission. For that, he has ordered four days without an orgasm and 100 spanks, even though he had told me that 10 spanks would be given for a first offense. He has said that he will spank me until I cry.


Recently, a submissive under my tutalage was in a similar orgasm denial situation. She too is new to the lifestyle; however, I was clear about why she was being denied, and in an effort to not only please but to prove to herself she was able, she met the restriction, with gratitude. Punishments are not something I tend to dole out for my pleasure. As I've often said, I'm all about the candy. Restricting someone in this manner out of a sense of behavior modification is for their benefit, not mine.

A submissive who congnitively understands the underlying reason for such a punishment is one that understands to a greater extent what a power exchange really means.

By negating His wishes, and defying him, you proved that your needs were paramount to his desire to train. Now that he's piled on an additional punishment, you have a problem. I would implore you to examine this.

quote:

Am I wrong to think that this is insane? Extreme? One hundred spanks is bad enough, but four days without an orgasm? I'm being set up to fail.


I'm going to reserve judgement here on your relative sanity of the punishment; He's in charge, and clearly he sees fit to administer such a punishment. What I find dismaying is that you seem more concerned with the 4 days of orgasm denial and not the number of spankings.

By deciding that your needs/desires are more important than the desire of your Dominant makes me wonder WTF you are doing considering being this man's collared submissive. I can imagine that given this style of training he's chosen so early in your relationship, there will be even greater challenges down the road. By making a conscious decision that you will fail before you've even tried, is clearly A) Topping from the bottom, and B) a self fulfilling prophecy.

quote:

I would appreciate anyone's viewpoint, positive or negative. Thank you.


Well, clearly your milage will vary on what I've said above. However, I think that it's in your best interest, not just as a submissive but as an emotionally available, functional human being, to step back and evaluate your own committment, not only to this particular man, but to the concept of Power Exchange.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 5:22:07 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I admit, I agree with RiotGrrl, this isn't, to me, even a punishment at all.

Four days without an orgasm...well...it isn't that many. You may be asked to do a lot more. I know that I went, at one point, two months without an orgasm. It sucks, but if you're told to do it, you do it.

I don't consider that to be setting you up to fail. I -do- consider it to be hard to do.

100 spanks... Well, I'm a masochist, so that's a warm up :) If you don't like pain, it might suck a lot.

If you aren't comfortable with where the relationship is right now SLOW DOWN! It is reasonable to take some time, especially if you're new to all this.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 5:28:46 PM   
songbird26


Posts: 72
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		Well said, Lily!

The only thing I would add is this: As a horse trainer myself, I know that consistency of expectations and repercussions (positive and negative) is essential to ANY kind of learning process. And though, yes, it's his right to change his mind and change your punishment as he sees fit, it's a BIG red flag to me that he would do so without explanation to you and making sure you were 100% clear on both his thoughts and the need for such a change. Punishment, in my mind, needs to be consistent, evenhanded and predictable to be at all effective. Might be time to take a step back and evaluate, for both that reason and for the reasons outlined by Protagonist_Lily above.

Also, four days? NOT LONG. Might be good to start learning a little self-control, there, since many, many D/s relationships have orgasm control as a major part of the dynamic and power exchange.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 5:29:25 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
If you aren't comfortable with where the relationship is right now SLOW DOWN! It is reasonable to take some time, especially if you're new to all this.


Of the responses, I agree with this part most.

The only part of your post that concerns me is that you say he originally said 10 spanks, and now that you've done it, it's 100 ... that's an order of magnitude difference ... for a first offence. Granted, you shouldn't have done it, and you need to be disciplined/punished in some way, but to renig on the stated first offence punishment, that's not right IMHO...

However, I can see raising the punishment, as obviously the threat of 10 wasn't enough ...

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 5:31:25 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: songbird26

Well said, Lily!

The only thing I would add is this: As a horse trainer myself, I know that consistency of expectations and repercussions (positive and negative) is essential to ANY kind of learning process. And though, yes, it's his right to change his mind and change your punishment as he sees fit, it's a BIG red flag to me that he would do so without explanation to you and making sure you were 100% clear on both his thoughts and the need for such a change. Punishment, in my mind, needs to be consistent, evenhanded and predictable to be at all effective. Might be time to take a step back and evaluate, for both that reason and for the reasons outlined by Protagonist_Lily above.

Also, four days? NOT LONG. Might be good to start learning a little self-control, there, since many, many D/s relationships have orgasm control as a major part of the dynamic and power exchange.


Yeah ... too bad this post wasn't up when I was typing my last reply LOL *nods emphatically in agreement*

Since he did change the punishment, he needs to be clear about why. And yeah, 4 days is nothing.

(in reply to songbird26)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 6:05:01 PM   
krikket


Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline 		Speaking for myself only, one of the hardest things i had to learn as a submissive is that it was not only necessary for me to submit to the things i enjoyed, but also the things i didn't enjoy, and sometimes even downright hated..lol. i never found orgasm restriction that much fun, but my Master requested it. i obeyed because pleasing him was more important to me than pleasing myself, and every so much more important than knowing i had disappointed him.

i tend to agree with the posters who are asking if you've known this man long enough. It's was easy, when i was new, to jump into a relationship without thinking it through. Have y'all talked about limits, what you're looking for in a relationship (more than just the physical, or physical only), etc. When i wore my Master's collar he was my world, my everything, and i wore it with pride, maybe more so than i had worn my wedding ring.

As for whether this punishment is extreme or not, only you can answer that question. Perhaps you and your dom could discuss what certain actions will warrant if punishment comes into it. Good luck!!

Hope this gives you some food for thought...

peace and joy
jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin



When your heart speaks take good notes.





(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 6:11:57 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		4 days of orgasm withdrawl and 100 smacks on the ass doesn't seem too extreme to me. What did you think would happen?

Punishment isn't supposed to be fun. That's why it is called punishment.

An alternative could be that your master makes you a pair of gloves that are coated in sandpaper then tells you to masturbate with your hands while wearing the aforementioned gloves. Perhaps you could present this idea to your master as an alternative to the 4 days and 100 whacks.

(Although this could be seen as questioning his judgement... ooo what a predicament!)

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 11:34:14 PM   
fencerpet19


Posts: 169
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		Hello there,
I too am VERY new to everything here. Not only BDSM, but sex in general.... my Master was my first hee hee.
To me, him changing his punishment doesn't seem too unreasonable (though he should provide an explanation as to why). For me, my first spanking was occured because my Master told me to kneel, and instead of kneeling on the tile, I backed up a few inches and kneeled on carpet. And I got I think about 8 spanks. However, had I directly disobeyed an order, I would have gotten much worse. So having a fixed number (10) can't always apply.

I am wondering if you are masochistic. If so, then the only way it would be a punishment is if you weren't enjoying it. ie: make you cry. (10 spanks would turn me on). As for orgasm denial, 4 days is nothing.

What if your Master wasn't doing any of this out of punishment? Would it make a difference? If he said "I have decided that I don't want you to masterbate for a week. It's just something I don't want you to do." Would you argue?
I hope the two of you are very clear on what you both want out of this relationship. If he is like most Doms out there, you can expect to get a hell of a lot worse than 100 spanks and no orgasm for 4 days. Be careful. Best wishes,
~FP

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/26/2005 11:35:39 PM   
NoPinkBalloons


Posts: 125
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBWinOhio

I worry that the inconsistency in punishment is a sign of things to come. If this is it at the beginning, what will happen down the road? Can I trust a man to tie me up if he's already done something to prove to me that he doesn't keep his word?


IMNSHO, if you're even asking these questions then you already have your answer. No, you don't trust him enough. That doesn't mean he's not trustworthy, just that you're not at a point yet where you can give him that much trust. As others have said, perhaps you need to SLOW DOWN.

Your gut tells you things for a reason. It's generally good to listen to it.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

A hard-on does NOT count as personal growth

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
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RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/27/2005 3:25:53 AM   
willing2serve


Posts: 385
Joined: 4/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

BlkTallFullfig

If he ordered no masturbation without his permission and you did, than it's not him setting you up to fail, it's you sabotaging your relationship by specifically going against his wishes without first begging his permission.


Agreed...Even as submissives, we are responsible for our own choices and actions. Failing is our choice as well. Also in failure, you will find valuable lessons.

quote:

PaintedLady
my big question is- if you are new to D/s, and just met him, and are talking collars, and having communication issues already,

Have you really thought this through?


quote:

krikket
When i wore my Master's collar he was my world, my everything, and i wore it with pride, maybe more so than i had worn my wedding ring.


I would add to this.....think about accepting collars...If you are new to the lifestyle, you have much learning and self discovery. You need to be very sure what a collar means to you.

For me personally, I never wanted to belong to the collar of the month club..accepting a collar from every Tom, Dom, Dick or Harry. It is a very special thing to me. I’ve been involved in the lifestyle close to 3 years and many Doms have crossed my path, some were wonderful teachers, friends and lovers, but yet these were not my One. I still have not accepted a collar.

This is a very sacred act to me and I will not degrade it in anyway. I visualize the day of finding the One my heart calls Master and saying, I have accepted no other collars but yours... I can’t even imagine telling the One, Oh Sir, I have accepted 100 collars, but yours is special.

See the difference? Just something to think about.

quote:

RiotGirl
To me this doesnt consitute a "severe" punishment. Maybe your Dom is a sadist? Or maybe mine is? LOL


I will say, this did make me laugh outloud... Severity is in the eye of the beholder...LOL

quote:

FangsNfeet
Make him horney. After all, can he go without doing the naughty with you for 4 days? He's punishing himself more than he is you.


Oh Fangs, This must be one of your off days (smile). He never stated he was going to go without doing the naughty for 4 days. He said she would not orgasm for 4 days. This does not mean he cannot have his was with her and have his pleasure..It just means she can’t climax. Which this is even MORE punishment to be played with and used but not allowed to cum.
quote:


Shayna
no one usually regrets going slowly, but many people regret going fast


Awesome advice..especially your definition of submission.

quote:

ProtagonistLily
By negating His wishes, and defying him, you proved that your needs were paramount to his desire to train.


I’ve been here...it means you truly are not submitting...you just want to submit. There is quite a difference.

quote:

MrThorns

An alternative could be that your master makes you a pair of gloves that are coated in sandpaper then tells you to masturbate with your hands while wearing the aforementioned gloves. Perhaps you could present this idea to your master as an alternative to the 4 days and 100 whacks.


Thorns, why do I get the feeling this idea came to you easily? LOL

Thorns is making a point...be careful how you use the word extreme.


I am just basing this on the information given and my experiences,.... We have all been a newbie at one time or another, I still consider myself very new to the lifestyle, but I see many red flags in this post. This post has an overtone of yes I want the wonderful world of Domhood with collars in my life, but I also want my pleasure and if I chose my pleasure over consequences, then i want to whine about the severity or the extremeness of the punishment. I have been at this point and what it means is, I didn’t truly understand power exchange and submission. I encourage you to really take the advice that these other people have given you and see what applies to your situation, because truly in the end this is your relationship. We are only on the outside, seeing what you are allowing us to see.

Whatever you do or whatever you decide I wish you much success on your journey!

Respectfully,
Willing2serve1

_____________________________

Definitely A Journey!

(in reply to NoPinkBalloons)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/27/2005 7:56:04 AM   
OrientalMistress


Posts: 34
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		From this Mistress' point of view: forget the man... if his word before your collaring is unsafe ... his word after will be as well. In addition, 100 strokes is rarely called for as punishment...unless He is a sadist and you a masochist...

Forget him... ....

(in reply to BBWinOhio)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/27/2005 10:24:04 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrientalMistress

From this Mistress' point of view: forget the man... if his word before your collaring is unsafe ... his word after will be as well. In addition, 100 strokes is rarely called for as punishment...unless He is a sadist and you a masochist...

Forget him... ....



This feels like it's out of left feild, but I suppose we did need a disenting voice.

We should have asked..."100 strokes with WHAT?" With a flogger that doesn't sting or cut? I'd say that's a warmup, even to some people who are non-sadists/masochists. 100 strokes with a cat and/or singletail--crazy. 100 strokes with someone's hand? Well, it might make you cry but it's not going to do more than raise some bruises.

Too, if he is a sadist, and she is NOT a masochist, is -that- uncalled for? Or, say he simply believes that this offense requires more dicouragment than something else. Is -that- uncalled for? Where does the dominant partner's judgement have the right to overrule things that were said previously?

OrientalMistress, do you expect someone to ALWAYS do exactly what he said? For example, in this case the OP was told she'd get 10 stroke for the first offense. Perhaps "the first offense" in her dominant parnter's mind was something on the scale of hesitation, or doing something in a less than perfect manner. Perhaps their communication was a bit off, and he thought she realized that disobeying a dirrect order was something ofa greater magnitude?

To expect ANYONE to do exactly what they say before a situation occurs isn't always wise. Yes, I believe one should keep ones word, however one cannot predict what situations will occur. For example my dad said he would NEVER spend more than $1000 on medical care for a pet. He was sure about this. He gave his word, if you will. Then our dog got cancer. Dad's spent easily three times that on her treatment.

yes, it's an unrelated example, but do you see what I'm getting at?

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to OrientalMistress)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Extreme punishment? - 2/27/2005 10:34:42 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Perverse- well said. There's just so many little variables that go on in rt that can't be accounted for online. And each can make a big difference.

It might be that he listed the first offense strokes as an example and not meant to be taken as a literal law. I also think the "extreme" in this situation is misplaced, but I don't want to discount someone else's legitimate perspective.

I'm very sexual too, I tend to orgasm at least once a day and many other sexual things. I have found that I become distracted at work, unable to focus and very moody if I don't orgasm for a few days. But, it's hardly the worst thing in the world and can be an effective method of behavior modification.

My honest impression is that this is a novice situation making all the classic novice mistakes- thinking short term sexual control will lead to a long term relationship and personal development. Already there is "disobedience" and punishment, and to me these are NOT casual things to be used as a game, unless you want the entire relationship to be a game.

In the end of course it comes down to the people involved sitting down and telling eachother whats going on in their heads. they have to be honest with what they really want and how they really want things to be headed.

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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