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Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 7:40:50 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		 I am finally coming to the point that I can see why the US, needs to get involved in the Middle East.  The situation in all of the Middle East is certainly coming to a head.
What I am struggling with is why did we pussy foot in Iraq when clearly the biggest problem is in Iran?  Also, I don’t like the reasons we were told we needed to RUSH into Iraq.  Why didn’t we sit back and wait, deal with Afghanistan and try to get more support before we dealt with Iran?  Why was it necessary to tell lies to get us to go to Iraq?  I just don’t like the way we have gone about this, especially since the tenuous situations in the Middle East will ultimately affect the entire world, why the hell is the USA really the only country having to take on the Middle East?  IF we had waited, and gotten more support, we could have tons of allies supporting a confrontation with Iran.
 
 
Okay where is my farglebargle and lil Julia?
 

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 7:57:01 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 I am finally coming to the point that I can see why the US, needs to get involved in the Middle East.  The situation in all of the Middle East is certainly coming to a head.
What I am struggling with is why did we pussy foot in Iraq when clearly the biggest problem is in Iran?  Also, I don’t like the reasons we were told we needed to RUSH into Iraq.  Why didn’t we sit back and wait, deal with Afghanistan and try to get more support before we dealt with Iran?  Why was it necessary to tell lies to get us to go to Iraq?  I just don’t like the way we have gone about this, especially since the tenuous situations in the Middle East will ultimately affect the entire world, why the hell is the USA really the only country having to take on the Middle East?  IF we had waited, and gotten more support, we could have tons of allies supporting a confrontation with Iran.
 
 
Okay where is my farglebargle and lil Julia?
 


Why exactly are we even remotely interested in either Iran or Iraq?

The answer is oil.  We fund alternative energy, we no longer need their product, they can go off and rot.

But Dumbfuckistan elected two myopic oil men to be president and vice.

Sinergy



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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 8:06:57 PM   
MzMia


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Sinergy, there are a ton of articles and books that have been written about Iran.
Briefly, Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq, we have known this for years.
They are literally bringing most of the weapons used to fight the USA in across the borders, daily.
The main reason, the WORLD is going to have to deal with Iran soon, is because Iran is filled with radical Islamics
that plan on taking over the Middle East, Israel and will eventually want to step up to America.
They sort of hate Americans.
I can see where Iran is the problem, why the hell are we in Iraq?
 


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 8:25:38 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia


Sinergy, there are a ton of articles and books that have been written about Iran.
Briefly, Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq, we have known this for years.
 

 
Before Bush, et al. brought terror and warfare to Iraq, I doubt this was the case.

Once Humpty Dumpty falls (or is overthrown by the US Military) off the wall, he cannot be put
back together again.

Or, to use another analogy, once you open a can of worms, the only way to recan it is with a larger can.

Bush's approach is the Pottery Barn Rule; You break it, you own it.  My main objection is I dont think
he can afford it, and he is busily sticking everybody else in the US with the bill.

quote:



They are literally bringing most of the weapons used to fight the USA in across the borders, daily.
The main reason, the WORLD is going to have to deal with Iran soon, is because Iran is filled with radical Islamics
that plan on taking over the Middle East, Israel and will eventually want to step up to America.
They sort of hate Americans.
I can see where Iran is the problem, why the hell are we in Iraq?
 


Iran is only a problem if they have a weapon they can use to inflict on other people.

A lot of countries are developing WMDs.  A lot of countries (like the US) have WMDs.  We deal with it the way we deal with everybody else who has WMDs; we negotiate and work out an equitable deal where everybody gets something from the deal.

They also have oil to use as a weapon.

As I stated, if we dont need their product, they can fall off the earth and rot.

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 8:35:45 PM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		I'm with Sinergy on this one ... (try not to die of shock).
 
If we developed alternate energy in the west, Middle Eastern arms money would dry up and they could go back to riding camels and killing each other with carbines, for all any of us would care.

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 8:49:06 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
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Status: offline 		Hummm I need to mull this one over.
Do you honestly think we are not headed to Iran, eventually?

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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
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What's your favorite fetish?
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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:32:54 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Nope we're not headed into Iran, there is not a need assuming Iraq can get up on it's feet.
Iran already has a significant number of non fanatic democratic reformer students and groups that are biding their time.
Irran has made the fatal mistake of not reinvesting in their Oil infrastructure, they can't even produce their OPEC allowed quota, because of that.
The more time we can keep them occupied with stuff the closer they get to internal revolution. Their influence days are rapidly comming to an end and would happen even more rapidly if Iraq would stabilize, thus they work hard to keep that from happening.
So long as we can keep the conflicts 1.small, 2. on the Iraqi side of the boarder, 3. embarrasing enough to them that nations like Egypt and Saudi are condeming them. (as happened yesterday) they really are unlikely to remain a big influence for long. (read more than 20 years or so.

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:37:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia


Sinergy, there are a ton of articles and books that have been written about Iran.
Briefly, Iran is supporting the terrorists in Iraq, we have known this for years.
They are literally bringing most of the weapons used to fight the USA in across the borders, daily.
The main reason, the WORLD is going to have to deal with Iran soon, is because Iran is filled with radical Islamics
that plan on taking over the Middle East, Israel and will eventually want to step up to America.
They sort of hate Americans.
I can see where Iran is the problem, why the hell are we in Iraq?
 



We stopped a moderate regime at one point from springing up in Iran that was built on democracy to support a Saudi type system which we would have to deal with only the royal ruler, the Shah. The Shah of Iran was a brutal man that we supported. He was overthrown by radical Islamic students. This will give you a hint as to why Iran is the way it is

quote:

In the early 1950s, there was a political crisis centered in Iran that commanded the focused attention of British and American intelligence outfits. In 1951, the Iranian parliament, under the leadership of the nationalist movement of Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh, voted unanimously to nationalize the oil industry. This shut out the immensely profitable Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), which was a pillar of Britain's economy and political clout. A month after that vote, Mossadegh was named Prime Minister of Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi

It is a misnomer to think that Iran is full of nothing but radical Islamists, it isn't. Unfortunately radicals have managed to keep power by showing how Western governments are a threat to Iran. Threaten people and they tend to grasp on to whatever they feel will protect them (look at how Americans gravitated toward Bush after 9-11).

There was the coup that overthrew their democratically elected leader in 1950, then the revolution of  1979, then there was the Iraq/Iran war, which their enemy in that conflict was supported by the USA, in essense Saddam was our proxy.

Now there have been articles that talk of a new moderate movement that is poised to take the place of radicalism over the next few years, how we treat Iran today will either help that happen, or will ruin the chance of it. Not everyone is a hardliner. What is crucial is to respect the fact that Iran and Syria have an important role to play in bringing stability to Iraq. Talking aggressively to Iran could just get us into another war, and who is going to fight that?




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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:37:05 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

If we developed alternate energy in the west


One of our saddest mistakes after 9/11, imho, was not launching a Manhattan Project to find/refine alternative energy sources.

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:39:46 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I just brought this up, because I watch and listen to a lot of conservative news shows.

Since I tend to swing left, I like to hear what the right has to say.
I hope you are right, I am concerned about dealing with Iran.
But I am FAR from being a war monger.
I do believe in protecting our country if we are in harms way.
Do you really think we are not going to ever have to deal with Iran?
I hate to think this, but it is just a question of when, and I don't think
we should be alone if we ever do have to deal with Iran.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/11/2007 9:42:09 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:48:20 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I'm with Sinergy on this one ... (try not to die of shock).
 
If we developed alternate energy in the west, Middle Eastern arms money would dry up and they could go back to riding camels and killing each other with carbines, for all any of us would care.


Some people say "When the West decides to release the alternative energy it has already developed."

< Message edited by subfever -- 1/11/2007 9:50:18 PM >

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:53:34 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		So long as we don't try to occupy Iran as well we have no problem beating them in all the conventional battles.
They know that as well. They don't want a conventional war with us, they want to wear us down in guerilla style the only way they can. And the more they can do that without forcing a conventional battle the better they like it.

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:53:36 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Why was it necessary to tell lies to get us to go to Iraq?  I just don’t like the way we have gone about this, especially since the tenuous situations in the Middle East will ultimately affect the entire world, why the hell is the USA really the only country having to take on the Middle East?  IF we had waited, and gotten more support, we could have tons of allies supporting a confrontation with Iran.
 


First we really didnt want allies.
Second this plan has been in the works since lindon johnson waaaaay back in the 60's.
3rd, oil
4th, oil
5th oil
and last oil.

and of course the revenues from oil.

Remember the boston tea party?  we were terrorists as far as england was concerned.

What i would like to know is how do you figure they are terrorists when we are invading trying to take over their country on false pretenses? 

If russia were trying to take over our country and you fought back does that then make you a terrorist or a patriot to your country?


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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:54:15 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 I am finally coming to the point that I can see why the US, needs to get involved in the Middle East.  The situation in all of the Middle East is certainly coming to a head.
What I am struggling with is why did we pussy foot in Iraq when clearly the biggest problem is in Iran?  Also, I don’t like the reasons we were told we needed to RUSH into Iraq.  Why didn’t we sit back and wait, deal with Afghanistan and try to get more support before we dealt with Iran?  Why was it necessary to tell lies to get us to go to Iraq?  I just don’t like the way we have gone about this, especially since the tenuous situations in the Middle East will ultimately affect the entire world, why the hell is the USA really the only country having to take on the Middle East?  IF we had waited, and gotten more support, we could have tons of allies supporting a confrontation with Iran.
 
 
Okay where is my farglebargle and lil Julia?
 


Why exactly are we even remotely interested in either Iran or Iraq?

The answer is oil.  We fund alternative energy, we no longer need their product, they can go off and rot.

But Dumbfuckistan elected two myopic oil men to be president and vice.

Sinergy


That's part of the answer. The other part is dollars for oil vs. euros for oil.

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:55:31 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		maybe we should be asking ourselves: "when are we gonna back off and let things cool off for awhile?"

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:56:11 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		MizMia take a chance to google Student Protests Iran and you'll see that they are not far from their own internal revolution again.


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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:58:56 PM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		There's an easy answer here.  It's going to fall onto the shoulders of Israel.  Why do you think they have nuclear weapons?  Where do you suppose they got that technology? 

I agree with what's been said about oil.  If we were making use of renewable fuel sources (imagine turning Corn into gasoline) to the extent we could, by taking every dime we wasted in the Iraq war and putting it into that research, Iran would be no closer to possessing a WMD than we are today at possessing a fusion cell

Stephan


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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 9:59:13 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

 I am finally coming to the point that I can see why the US, needs to get involved in the Middle East.  The situation in all of the Middle East is certainly coming to a head.
What I am struggling with is why did we pussy foot in Iraq when clearly the biggest problem is in Iran?  Also, I don’t like the reasons we were told we needed to RUSH into Iraq.  Why didn’t we sit back and wait, deal with Afghanistan and try to get more support before we dealt with Iran?  Why was it necessary to tell lies to get us to go to Iraq?  I just don’t like the way we have gone about this, especially since the tenuous situations in the Middle East will ultimately affect the entire world, why the hell is the USA really the only country having to take on the Middle East?  IF we had waited, and gotten more support, we could have tons of allies supporting a confrontation with Iran.
 
 
Okay where is my farglebargle and lil Julia?
 


Why exactly are we even remotely interested in either Iran or Iraq?

The answer is oil.  We fund alternative energy, we no longer need their product, they can go off and rot.

But Dumbfuckistan elected two myopic oil men to be president and vice.

Sinergy


That's part of the answer. The other part is dollars for oil vs. euros for oil.


i thought it was a 30% interest of roughly 115billion barrels of oil over 30 years


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 10:01:53 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		this war is going to be like another Vietnam...when will the killing stop?

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RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? - 1/11/2007 10:03:27 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

There's an easy answer here.  It's going to fall onto the shoulders of Israel.  Why do you think they have nuclear weapons?  Where do you suppose they got that technology? 

I agree with what's been said about oil.  If we were making use of renewable fuel sources (imagine turning Corn into gasoline) to the extent we could, by taking every dime we wasted in the Iraq war and putting it into that research, Iran would be no closer to possessing a WMD than we are today at possessing a fusion cell

Stephan



Next imagine the worldwide inflation of food costs because of the rerouting of that Corn to fuel. The Corn angle has been looked at short sightedly by so many. The idea that that corn is currently used to feed people instead of engines tends to be forgotten. What do you propose we do to replace that food supply so many depend on?

Edited so I don't look like I'm talking out of my hat

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-peters0109.artjan09,0,2098585.story?coll=hc-headlines-oped


< Message edited by Archer -- 1/11/2007 10:15:01 PM >

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