RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (Full Version)

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fastcars1 -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:28:52 AM)

Fargle, you did say that you do not want our troops to be successful. It is clear if you read back through the threads. You are the one that is flip flopping.



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fastcars1

Fargle, you did say that you do not want our troops to be successful. It is clear if you read back through the threads. You are the one that is flip flopping.


Provide quotations from my postings to support your allegation. I called you out on exactly this issue once before, and you could not support your position, and flip-flopped.

There is a world of difference between my desires and the result intuitively obvious to the most casual HONEST observer.




fastcars1 -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:35:15 AM)

Just read your posts. I already called you on this, and you flip flopped. You are pretty transparent.



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:36:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fastcars1

Just read your posts. I already called you on this, and you flip flopped. You are pretty transparent.


So you are unable to provide citations where I said what you allege? Sounds to us like you're just making more shit up. Like when you said Congress voted for War in Iraq. You made that up too.

It's the PATTERN of dishonesty.




ModeratorEleven -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:41:15 AM)

Settle down, kids.

XI



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:41:19 AM)

When have I ever flip-flopped?

My main points:

A VOTE TO KEEP THE TROOPS IN IRAQ IS A VOTE FOR MORE DEAD TROOPS. ONLY THOSE WHO WANT THE TROOPS HOME SAFELY NOW ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE TROOPS. I stand by that.

I said, Iraq is unwinnable, because Bush refuses to establish measurable goals, AND/OR understand the sophistication of the situation in Iraq. I stand by that. For some reason you believe that means I don't WANT us to win. Objectively, winning is IMPOSSIBLE ( Bush has HAD 3 years, longer than all of our involvement in WWII ). That is a fact, and my feelings are not relevant to the facts in evidence.

We *HAVE* failed. It's not about my desires at all. It's about accepting reality, and being honest about it.

Bush is living in a fantasy world, where we'll be greeted with flowers. Reality is, we're getting IEDs.




fastcars1 -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:43:13 AM)

I said:

"I'm very sure that you hope we fail in Iraq. With all due respect, I don't beleive that you understand our enemy. They are not in a pigeon hole. They are widespread, and they are planning to kill us."

You said:

"Not hope. Hell, the idea of secular democracies isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Bush Administration has consistently shown itself to be... too unsophisticated to understand the nuances and requirements of the task.

Once Bush appointed the incompetent L. Paul Bremer ( who in his own book, writes about his own unsuitability, lack of training, lack of experience and inability ) it was pretty much all over, and the region degenerated into tribal grudge matches... Which have been going on for what, 4000 years? Hussein needed to slaughter thousands to keep that shit under control. A Constitutional Republic is unable to provide the sort of animals needed to do the job of supressing that shit.

Why would you believe Bush has GAINED the requisite sophistication to control the situation?"

That is the exact context.



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:44:24 AM)

The words you attempted to place in my mouth:

"I'm very sure that you hope we fail in Iraq.

Were disproved when I corrected you and BEGAN with "NOT HOPE" So saying that I HOPED we failed is... Misleading at best...



fastcars1 -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:48:31 AM)

You said it, not me.

I like the discussion, but not the accusations.

Some of your points are factual and some are of opinion. That's what makes a great debate.



collarandbrandU -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:49:03 AM)

we  christans and jews will soon become deni slaves to the radical muslims if we let this continue. They see a world of radical religions where we shall kneel and serve or die..not what I want for my self so rise up,store you arms and ammo for I believe one day soon we shall need all of it as we beat them back on our doorstep..The us prisons are nothing but a breeding ground  for radicals...DEMIN



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:50:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fastcars1

You said it, not me.

I like the discussion, but not the accusations.

Some of your points are factual and some are of opinion. That's what makes a great debate.



I don't know why you persist in interperting my instant denial of your mischaraterization as something other than what it is, but based on your inability to participate, welcome to the block list.




fastcars1 -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 9:57:04 AM)

The Block List? You are too much.



meatcleaver -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/6/2007 10:10:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
It is irrelevent what governments the Arabs would have without US interference, the point is that the dictatorships in the area are US puppets.


Did you really just say that? 


Yes. It is the west interfering in the middle east and not Arabs interfering in the west that started the problem. Even when people in the middle east vote in a government, it never seems to be the right one for the west anyway so it is the west that promotes democracy and simultaneously brings it into disrepute. Even so you might wonder why anyone would want anything but a western style government. To an Arab who is a devout muslim and many are, they might wonder why you prefer to be governed by decadent materialists whose sole aim is to exploit you. Its all a question of perception. There is no way round it, the west has been totally hypocritical in the middle east and then to expect the people of the middle east to suddenly view the world through western eyes is a nonsense.



MzMia -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 7:38:34 AM)

My original question was:  Who is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company?
I have enjoyed most of the posts made here, but I still feel the same way I did before.
It appears NOONE is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company, except Israel.
So I guess it means the USA is in this pretty much alone.
Which I still do not understand.
It appears that it is only the USA and Israel that fears the Middle East is a threat to modern civilization.
If not, why do we not have troops over there from all over the world helping us?



bludemonn -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 7:45:26 AM)

Can i just say something? What exactly are the threats from the Middle East.... scuse me for being so politically ignorant, as far as i understand the previous episode the purpose of Iraq was to do with ficticious WMD's so in this new episode of West v East wars what is the threat?



meatcleaver -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 7:45:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

My original question was:  Who is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company?
I have enjoyed most of the posts made here, but I still feel the same way I did before.
It appears NOONE is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company, except Israel.
So I guess it means the USA is in this pretty much alone.
Which I still do not understand.
It appears that it is only the USA and Israel that fears the Middle East is a threat to modern civilization.
If not, why do we not have troops over there from all over the world helping us?


The USA has the same problem the old Soviet Union had, it sees enemies everywhere. No one but America thinks the middle east is a danger to western civilisation. It's a pain in the arse, it's irritating and we could well do without it but there is a lot happening in the world we could well do without. Yeah there is trerrorism but what is new? We had to put up with American funded Irish terrorism before and now we have to put up with Saudi Arab terrorism now so what is the big deal?



MzMia -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 8:04:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

My original question was:  Who is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company?
I have enjoyed most of the posts made here, but I still feel the same way I did before.
It appears NOONE is going to help us take on Iran/Iraq and company, except Israel.
So I guess it means the USA is in this pretty much alone.
Which I still do not understand.
It appears that it is only the USA and Israel that fears the Middle East is a threat to modern civilization.
If not, why do we not have troops over there from all over the world helping us?


The USA has the same problem the old Soviet Union had, it sees enemies everywhere. No one but America thinks the middle east is a danger to western civilisation. It's a pain in the arse, it's irritating and we could well do without it but there is a lot happening in the world we could well do without. Yeah there is trerrorism but what is new? We had to put up with American funded Irish terrorism before and now we have to put up with Saudi Arab terrorism now so what is the big deal?


The big deal now is we have opened up a big can whup ass in the Middle East that it does not seem we can walk away from.



mnottertail -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 8:07:49 AM)

The choices at this point are dig a hole where they used to be,
or say---Oops!!!!! We made a big fucking mistake here, and immediately walk out.....

What prithee could be a third?

(I mean in terms of actual and somewhat lasting workability)



farglebargle -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 8:33:25 AM)

1) Give EVERY Iraqi who can hold them all the small arms they desire. Everything shy of say, mortars. Ok, everything smaller than 155.

2) Tell them to form a "Neighborhood Watch", or "Well Regulated Militia"

3) Their Militia is responsible for Their Safety and Security.

4) Good Luck, May Allah Be Merciful, and GOOD BYE.

5) We're home by the 4th of July. And *IF* the Iraqis *WANT* Freedom and Liberty, we've given them the tools, and they can earn it for themselves. They are neither our Slaves nor the 51'st State, so lets stop treating them that way.




sleazy -> RE: Who is going to help us take on Iran and company? (2/7/2007 9:11:00 AM)

I ask again Fargle, are Iraqi lives worth less than US lives?



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