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Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 4:48:21 PM

PeggyO

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hello everyone,

How many Dominants/Masters feel it is important for them to lead by example? I seem to encounter a lot of self-identified "Masters" who have expectations of the submissives/slaves who might interact with them, but don't live to the same standards.

If a dominant expects letters written to them to be free of grammar and spelling errors, is it unreasonable to expect their profile and correspondence to be equally free of poor English? If they expect someone to maintain themselves in good physical shape and good health, should they be expected to show self-mastery by keeping themselves healthy and in good physical shape also?

My Teacher lives by the same standards he sets for me. I never expect anything from my submissive that I don't expect of myself.

Other thoughts?

Peggy

Post #: 1

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:01:37 PM

ardelle

Posts: 63
Status: offline

greetings

while i understand the reasons behind expecting such; for me personally, i have found that to 'expect' anything so trivial from another is unrealistic. Personally, i could care less if the person i was conversing with could spell as well i, or took care of themselves in the same way that i do. As long as they are honest, and i can trust them, that is all that matters in my eyes.

_____________________________

i wish you well

josie

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 2

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:04:13 PM

PeggyO

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

Perhaps I was unclear. My question is whether or not it is important to folks that dominants live by the same standards that they set for others.

Take care,

Peggy

(in reply to ardelle)

Post #: 3

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:07:27 PM

aSlavesLife

Posts: 347
Joined: 12/1/2006
Status: offline

Hello Peggy,

These are good points you have made. I try to lead by example on many things when it comes to my pet. I expect her to display the same curtesy that I do, for example, despite this going against her normally brash New York nature. I also scan her posts and journal entries to correct any ( and she doesn't make many ) glaring errors as I feel that her actions are a direct reflection on the nature of her owner. If my slave looks illiterate, what does that tell others about me?

This doesn't mean that I always follow a course set for her, though. I cannot say that I never expect anything of her that I don't expect of myself. I certainly don't expect me to give myself a wake-up blowjob, for example. Nor do I intend to ever be penetrated anally, eat from a dog dish, or sleep in a cage. These are things that are expected from her though.

I guess it best to say that I lead by example in aspects not relating to slavery, but lead by force in those things slave related.

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 4

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:09:54 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

Master gives me ALOT of leeway here on the boards

, though there have been times that he has pulled me back and told me to behave

He often tells me that he likes the sass that I have; as long as I don't take it too far.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 5

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:15:57 PM

ardelle

Posts: 63
Status: offline

greetings peggyo

i apologize if i took your words to mean something different.

i do not expect anything from an owner except that he maintain HIS OWN standards. an owner is not obligated to live up to the same standards that he would set for his property.

just my own personal view and opinion though

_____________________________

i wish you well

josie

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 6

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:37:03 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

It can depend. I was a slave to clean so that I don't have to. Does the fact that I don't clean and I leave my towels on the bathroom floor and glasses on the coffee table mean that I'm not leading by example?

One of the hardest things for me to get in this lifestyle is that the Golden Rule doesn't apply to Master/slave relationships. slaves don't always want to be treated as equals in many ways (although I still insist that they are equal in self worth and value).

But, what I think you're getting at is the notion of integrity from the Master. That if they want slaves who are "together", they need to be "together". So, again, it can depend. There are some things that are fostered in a person because of the atmosphere another person has created. So, if I want my slave to be honest, I need to foster an honest environment in the house. I honestly want her to pick up the wet towels and glasses. ;-)

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 7

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 5:50:05 PM

PeggyO

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Master Fire,

You hit it spot on. What I'm looking at is integrity. I guess what I am getting at is that for me personally, on things that have to do with personal integrity and character, the standards should be the same for both parties.

To me, a dominant who expects submissives to approach him with good grammar and spelling, yet doesn't have enough self respect and care to do the same for themselves shows a lack of integrity. Someone who expects me to maintain myself in good health yet won't do the same for themselves is someone I don't feel I can submit to. I feel that this is a person who hasn't done a good job in terms of themselves and is instead looking for something outside themselves to control - because maybe it's easier than working on themselves?

In relationships where I am dominant, I have no problem in having my submissive do things that I don't want to do myself. They are all things that I am capable of doing, but don't wish to do. However, if I didn't have someone to do them, I would do them myself. I certainly wouldn't leave my house dirty, for example, because there was no one there to clean it for me.

Take care,

Peggy

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 6:03:04 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I think it's generally a good idea to be a good example.

But I certainly don't want or expect it in everything.

I suck at geography- so I want a partner who is good at it!

I suck at empathy- so I use my partner as my empathy guide. No way could I be a good exampler or leader in using empathy.

Obviously if you want to train someone in something, you either need to be an effective trainer, and/or very good at it yourself- or else you'll need to send them elsewhere to get trained in that particular aspect.

So I appreciate the attitude of "Being a good example"- I don't expect the dom to play by the same rules as the sub and find it completely acceptable for the dom to indulge and be selfish in the things which are completely off limits for the slave.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 9

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 6:51:47 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

On the grammar/spelling thing. I was an English major and I'm fairly correct in grammar and spelling. He has a string of degrees but all in the math/engineering field.

One of the things I do for him is scrutinize his letters to proofread for readability as well as spellcheck/grammar check. But there is no way that his writings will be on a par with mine, nor should they be. Our backgrounds are different and our skill sets are different. What he does do is be as capable as he possibly can in the areas he excels in and delegates other stuff to me because I'm better in the other areas.

I don't expect that he should proofread my letters because it isn't necessary. I do expect that he will come to the rescue in a spatial problem because he's capable of that and I'm not.

Exercise, well it depends. If he had a health problem preventing exercise then that would excuse him but otherwise he is as concerned with his health as he is with mine. But he isn't one of those men who wants a woman solely for her looks. He values what's inside of me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 7:07:38 PM

IvyP

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline

YES! lead by example....Respect, Truth, Honor,and Trust to name a few.....fuck the Grammer for a while

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 11

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 11:00:07 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

Hello,

Perhaps I was unclear. My question is whether or not it is important to folks that dominants live by the same standards that they set for others.

Take care,

Peggy

No... because simply the standard maybe to low or it maybe to high. The standard should be established at the level that is appropriate to the person's skill/talent/nature etc.

A standard set too high to match the abilities of the submissive.. sets the submissive to fail.

A standard set too low to match the abilities of the submissive... fails to challenge the submissive to grow and enhance themself.

My standard for myself. should be based on my own abilities that challenge me to grow but don't set myself up to fail.

Often the standards will be the same... but it is also possible they will not be.

Editted to add....

oh yeah... standards are not static things... Once a standard is being achieved... move the bar higher.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 1/12/2007 11:01:32 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 12

RE: Leading by Example - 1/12/2007 11:06:17 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
But, what I think you're getting at is the notion of integrity from the Master.

I do not see so much as a question of Integrity but a question of Fairness. Related character traits but they have distinct differences.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 13

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 7:40:14 AM

PeggyO

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

Here's my particular take on things in terms of what I look for in my relationships and what I look for in a dominant in particular.

There are certain things that, if you expect them of me, I expect you to live by that standard also. They are things that I think have to do with personal responsibility and self-mastery. I have a fundamental belief that someone who seeks to master me should master themselves first.

If you expect me to be financially responsible, be so yourself.
If you expect me to be in good physical shape, be so yourself.
If you expect me to adhere to a high level of politeness and courtesy to others, do not be rude yourself.
If you expect me to maintain a certain level of personal cleanliness and hygiene, be so yourself.
If you expect me to maintain a certain level of cleanliness in my home space, do so yourself.
If you expect me to be honest, be so yourself.
If you expect me to be humble, be so yourself. (Yes, I think humility is a good trait in a dominant - I hate dominants who spend a lot of time tooting their own horns. If you got it, you don't need to flaunt it.)
If you expect me to be hardworking, do not be lazy.

In my opinion, none of these things are limited by skill/talent/nature etc. All of these are things that everyone is capable of doing. Are some of them things that require work and effort? Absolutely. However, I do judge someone on how well they maintain themselves and how much personal responsibility they take. These are the standards I apply to myself in my relationship with my submissive.

I have had good role models for this. I know other folks may not agree with how I see things, but I know this is what works for me and my view of personal responsibility and integrity.

Be well,

Peggy O

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 14

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 9:00:40 AM

MistressSassy66

Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

Hello,

Perhaps I was unclear. My question is whether or not it is important to folks that dominants live by the same standards that they set for others.

Take care,

Peggy

IMO...Dominants should conduct Themselves in almost a Professional manner.
Using manners,respect towards others etc.

Then again WE are only human and make mistakes all the time.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 15

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 9:21:20 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

All of these are things that everyone is capable of doing.

Absolutes are rarely correct.. and this one is no exception

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 16

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 10:25:45 AM

PeggyO

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Hello,

I am curious why you would say that these things are not things that everyone is capable of doing.

Be well,

Peggy O

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 17

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 2:03:44 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

It is about compatibility in the end. Certainly integrity and leading by example are good to must haves but all people are different with different personalities, turn ons and offs, and all other things in life.

So of course I want someone of integrity and a leader by example but have no false expectations that this can be done in everything in life. The examples that the OP has mentioned are a good examples. I do not care if his standard for the house being clean is higher than when he was cleaning it himself but certainly do care that if he insist on being with someone with a strong work ethic then he better have one as well. I really think this is really about compatibility for the most part. What is important to us would be important to our other.

My first journal entry in my journal on here was a rant on hypocrisy. In it I stated that I did not have a problem with an overweight man only wanting a much younger and thin woman but had a huge problem if he had issues if a younger woman did not want a much older and/or overweight man. To me this is the integrity part. To know what you are asking for and that you are fair in return for both roles in this life.

Many things listed are nothing more then basic qualities of decency and bricks in the foundation of a healthy relationship regardless of M/s in that relationship. It is all one giant mess, compatibility, integrity and do as I say and do.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 18

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 3:45:47 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

Hello,

I am curious why you would say that these things are not things that everyone is capable of doing.

Be well,

Peggy O

well...

A person with mental disabilities is very likely not going to have the skills and capacity to be financially responsible.

A person with certain physical health issues is not going to be capable to be in physical good shape. In this particular situation... I recall my best friend back in High School.. He had a heart condition that prevented him from any time of physical excersion without seriously risking his life. Ironically, he made the choice after 18 that he was going moving forward with his life as best he could and began to push his body physical. He died 6 months later.

Absolutes rarely have any truth to them. It maybe that you have no personal experience that some was not capable of a particular standard or expected behavior... but their almost always seems to be exceptions if one looks long enough.

As I said... standards must take into account the abilities and sitaution of those involve. Often times we can expect reasonable standards to be meet by reasonable individuals. But we can't let our own narrowed standards prevent us from considering unique situations and people. The diversity of humanity has never stop to amaze me.... just when you think you have it figured out... someone comes along and throws it out the window.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to PeggyO)

Post #: 19

RE: Leading by Example - 1/13/2007 3:48:20 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

toservez... enjoyed your post... your open-mindedness is something that always seems to catch my attention.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 20

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