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RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 8:33:24 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obis

It would be easier to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.


What a cool thing to think about. I can just see itty bitty lil angels on the head of a needle now.
LOL cute view.
Good answer there obis!

(in reply to obis)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 8:38:58 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Actually, hardworking, no, not everyone agrees to that definition.  In fact, I don't think the "amount of commitment" has anything whatsoever to do with being a sub or a slave.  Want to try again?  LOL!

Yeah, it's not about commitment ti's about permitted control and ownership and what that person's stance on that title is.
Some subs are better slaves than slave are, and some slaves are better subs than subs are. It's all relative to individuality.
Chicken or Egg would be easier to decide rather than the motivation of a sub slave defining them.

(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 12:35:20 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

A sub starts a new treat to find out.


I'm waiting to see what new treats the subs will offer. 



I made a chocolate cake with chocolate frosting......... PMS week coming up dontcha know....



Okay, I know your straight and all, I can forgive and overlook that, for homemade chocolate cake during PMS weeks!


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 12:53:21 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		It remains a question - the short answer is that it doesn't mean anything, objectively, but it can mean a lot subjectively.

I was looking at a profile the other day that sated "if you don't know the difference between a slave and a submissive, don't bother writing me" - clearly it meant something to her.

My answer is that it doesn't have a strict, definitive meaning, but it does have connotations: Slave generally implies a more complete form of submission, fewer limits, a suspension of negotiation, limited feedback, unquestioning obedience, in line with the whole general notion of slavery, but that doesn't mean that it has to be that way either, there are rebellious slaves as well as compliant ones one imagines.

I would say that typically, those who call themselves slaves tend to be less prone to seeing it as play, or a role, and more as a distinct and relatively inflexible identity.

Submissive can mean a whole contiuum of different levels of submission, from bedroom only to something that isn't any different from consensual slavery - by the same token, you might call yoruself a slave 'cause you like the sound of it, or you're not sure what to call yourself.

In the end, whatever you call yourself is defined by the particular dynamic you have with your partner, but that doesn't mean that individuals are going to have very specific personal and subjective opinions on the subject - find out what it means to your partner.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 3:15:38 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I can't help mentioning that in the Gorean forum, a Kajira was beginning to wonder if she might be happier as a switch - well due to an appalling oversight, John Norman failed to include any switch characters in his novels, so there is no such thing in Gorean philosophy - i.e., this particular individual was just shit out of luck, her personal inclinations be damned.

i.e., just because there is no objective definition everyone agrees on, the people you are involved with may well have well defined expectations they expect you to abide by - fortunately, this isn't neccessarily the case with everyone, but it means you might have to get outside your comfort zone, i.e., your particular social circle, to find what does suit you, definitions/expectations you are comfortable with.

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 6:27:40 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lunatic227

Please help me to understand the difference between a slave and a submissive.


It's really not that hard!

If you are a Dom/me, your slave or submissive is whatever you say he/she is.  If are a slave or submissive, it means whatever your Dom says it means.  If you don't have a Dom, feel free to define yourself for yourself in whatever way pleases you, but be wary of defining other people the same way. 

MaryT

(in reply to lunatic227)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/15/2007 6:35:36 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I made a chocolate cake with chocolate frosting......... PMS week coming up dontcha know....



Okay, I know your straight and all, I can forgive and overlook that, for homemade chocolate cake during PMS weeks!



LOL! Well as long as we both share the hormonal chocolate orientation, that's what's important right now! 

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 12:40:48 PM   
ShogunSensei


Posts: 38
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		...oooops, wrong response.


< Message edited by ShogunSensei -- 1/16/2007 12:44:04 PM >

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 12:43:30 PM   
ShogunSensei


Posts: 38
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		There are as many answers to this question as there are people who may answer.  None of which is right for you except for the one that fits you and feels right for you.

For me a loose defination has become defined as submissives submit, slaves surrender. 
AND, it is most definitely possible for both to exist within the same individual.  And depending on the dominant with whom you interact, one or the other may surface. 

Good luck in your search.

(in reply to lunatic227)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 1:50:42 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Ask 100 people you may get 100 different answers.  You have to find  theone that makes sense to you.  As you grow in BDSM it might change.  I have my own thoughts on the subject but i will leave you to make your own choice.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to ShogunSensei)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 2:19:30 PM   
bearincuffs


Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		As one who is for the most part submissive and has a tendancy towards the slave end of the spectrum. My belief is each term has the basic implcations but apply to different ends of the same spectrum. It's ironic for myself regarding this thread, as in the past several days, Master has been teaching me more of what it means to be His slave. My personal opinion is a a slave is taking the next step past being a submissive. Where being a slave, most control is held by Master. A submissive retains a higher degree of control for itself.  But like much of the opinions expressed here, the exact definition between sub and slave depends on one's personal interpertation of the label, be it Master's and/or sub/slave's.
 
property of Master Dave.

(in reply to lunatic227)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 2:24:15 PM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		People, People, settle down..  I have the answer right here..

I am the only TRUE slave here..
The rest of you subbies should know that.. So down on your knees and worship the true slave goddess !

(in reply to michaels4evr)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 2:29:14 PM   
goodpet


Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, i am running to get my shield out and hide behind it.....


on a serious note: 

Lunatic, you have to find the answer out for yourself.. go to the events and clubs and groups. Watch the different relationship. talk to them face to face. see what they do and don't do, how they workout their relationships, what the power exchange is.. then pick and choose what works.. and make your own answer..

But it is important to know your own definition. You have to know so you can talk with others about it,. so it is a good question.. it just is asked so often on here and other places..

good luck

(in reply to goodpet)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 2:29:53 PM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		Like most of the others have said, it is up to the people involved. If you are not owned you get to pick what you are most comfortable with. If you are owned then it is what you decide between you and your partner.

My Dom has defined the difference between slave and sub for me. If I were his slave I would be there solely to serve him, my “wants” would not be his concern. It would be "Serve me and leave". As his sub he does care about my wants, so he tries to make sure I’m satisfied before we part, as long as I deserve to be satisfied, that is. I have asked to remain his devoted sub. I am his property but, I am living property, not an inanimate object.

In the relationship I am in, I submitted to my Dom and he has picked what areas of my life he chooses to have authority over. I can ask for permission to voice my opinion and sometimes he insists I do so, but in the end he decides where, what, and when. I do my best to follow the orders he gives me and if it is something I have a hard time with, I end up fighting with myself to do what he wants. If I choose not to comply (something I have not come across yet), or mess up, then he punishes me. I work very hard not to let that happen.

When I met my Dom, I had no list of limits and no expectations other then wanting power exchange. If I were to start over, I believe I would have a few of each now; knowing a little more about myself and this lifestyle, but only a few.

As far as commitment, I am of the mind set my D/s relationship is as significant as my marriage was to me. Although my Dom has made sure I understand I can leave at anytime, I am not able to just up and leave because things aren’t going the way I would like or they are too hard. Leaving like that would be considered running, and if I have nothing else, I will not loose my honor. Not to say, if my life was in danger I wouldn’t do my best to self preserve, but that is where choosing someone whose needs and wants are, for the most part, compatible to your own comes in.

I hope this helps. ;)

Be well,

_____________________________

It apears to me, the practice of "an eye for an eye" has finally taken it's toll; the majority are now walking around blind.

Bitching; whining in a louder voice.

If the truth hurts, change it!

(in reply to lunatic227)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 7:04:00 PM   
SirPhotographer


Posts: 8
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
When I first entered this special lifestyle, I learned the difference between a sub and a slave was the degree of
control and submission,  as well as rights.  In my view, even a slave should still be granted rights and limitations.
After all, her gift of total unquestioning submission should be appreciated

(in reply to michaels4evr)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/16/2007 7:15:47 PM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodpet

People, People, settle down..  I have the answer right here..

I am the only TRUE slave here..
The rest of you subbies should know that.. So down on your knees and worship the true slave goddess !


That's great!  There is a lot of ego going in the whole "subbier than thou" stuff:

"I fly (in subspace) faster than a speeding flogger, jump higher than the tallest Andrew's cross and kneel lower than the Earth's core."

It kinda cracks me up when submissiveness is presented as a competition.  It's like wanting to be a spiritual giant - The desire alone is something of a disqualification. 

MaryT

(in reply to goodpet)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/17/2007 2:18:35 PM   
gailcd


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline 		how about a sub has a relationship with their domme that the domme acknowledges; a slave is just used

(in reply to michaels4evr)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/17/2007 2:40:43 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline 		The definition in my mind will most likely offend a few people, I don't mean too but it's my view on things...

I view a sub kinda like a pet dog, Obedient, Loyal, Interactive, Adoring, Sweet, Feisty, etc etc - something that is very much a thing in it's own right although it belongs to someone else, it might be pedigree, a show puppy, all or none of those things but it uis very much an individual thing.

I view a slave more like a nice car, sleek, shiny and the rest of it but only there foro ne reason, to be a car, and that no matter what it looks like...it's still a car, and you might polish it, wash it, show it off and be very very fond of it but you wouldnt take it shopping.

I guess it comes down to as I view a slave more as an object for the Dom/mes pleasure rather than an other half to take pleasure with.

This is just my mindset, my words may not makes sense!

(in reply to gailcd)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/17/2007 3:06:32 PM   
Jinger


Posts: 347
Joined: 1/7/2007
From: Rochester
Status: offline 		The way I see it, is anyone can be a submissive. Afterall submissiveness is a state of being, a mental condition that some people have more than others...wereas being a slave is an act of submission.
Remember that you don't necessarily have to be submissve to be a slave at all...however in BDSM it makes things easier.

(in reply to michaels4evr)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Slave vs. Submissive - 1/17/2007 3:09:37 PM   
wyldsubmissive


Posts: 157
Joined: 5/7/2005
Status: offline 		My exact opinion on slave vs. submissive is this:

A submissive says: I think therefore I am.
A slave says: I am therefore I am.

Now don't get your panties in a bunch and say that I'm stating slaves don't think. They do. But in my opinion their seperations can be drawn between those two statements. A female dom, who I am good friends with her told me that a slave she has is "she is (a slave) from the top of her head to the bottom of her feet". I think a submissive doesn't fall to that role at birth, per se, but seriously considers it.

(in reply to Jinger)
Profile   Post #: 40
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