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Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 2:57:53 AM

BendingGender

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Hello everyone.

For a long time I've been finding myself faced with certain questions that I cannot answer at the moment.

I've not had any sort of surgery or hormonal treatments to alter my gender. But when I imagine myself having intercourse with another person (regardless of their sex) I always seem to picture myself as some sort of hybrid, with parts from both male and female forms, or entirely the opposite gender.

I find it, thus far, impossible to have satisfying sex as I am presently.
If we were living in a world hundreds of years into the future with such extreme advancements in science and medicine, so as to allow someone to change their sex as easily as they changed their socks, I know I'd leap at the chance to go between the two as often as I changed my mind. However, while I would enjoy being able to slide to and from my current gender, I don't want to be permanently trapped behind a single mask.

So the questions I find myself unable to answer are as follows:
- Am I destined to be discontent with who and what I am?
- Does this mean I'm to forever be sexually frustrated and unfulfilled?
- Are there others in a similar situation who face the same peculiarities?
- Is it possible for two very different people to inhabit the same physical presence?

I realize that a good bit of what I question can only be answered by me. I suppose I come to you all in search of someone who has felt incomplete or simply wrong in their own skin. And, hopefully, in finding someone such as that... I may also find an answer or two.

Post #: 1

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:06:57 AM

enigmaslave

Posts: 146
Joined: 5/6/2006
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research "gender disphorea"

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my appreciation to A/all who have read my opinion.
enigmaslave

slrn 000145067

(in reply to BendingGender)

Post #: 2

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:11:49 AM

farmbound1

Posts: 46
Joined: 7/29/2006
Status: offline

Gender is not a binary thing. A person doesn't have to be "man" or "woman" even though our society would like to think these are the only choices. There are people all over the world who fit somewhere in the middle. I am one. There are masculine women and feminine men from mild inclination to full-blown alter-ego and there are those who change their gender persona as the situation and their mood dictates. True, it takes a bit more to change your physical sex; but how you feel and who you are transcends the physicality of your body and you don't have to change your genitals to be who you are, though some people don't feel complete unless they do. I personally believe that gender is more in the head than in the crotch, who you are and how you think and what you project. In Native American tribes, these people are known as "Two Spirits". Much has been written and debated... you don't have to choose just one gender or the other.

(in reply to BendingGender)

Post #: 3

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:13:31 AM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmaslave

research "gender disphorea"

Thank you. I shall.

(in reply to enigmaslave)

Post #: 4

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:21:49 AM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farmbound1

Gender is not a binary thing. A person doesn't have to be "man" or "woman" even though our society would like to think these are the only choices. There are people all over the world who fit somewhere in the middle. I am one. There are masculine women and feminine men from mild inclination to full-blown alter-ego and there are those who change their gender persona as the situation and their mood dictates. True, it takes a bit more to change your physical sex; but how you feel and who you are transcends the physicality of your body and you don't have to change your genitals to be who you are, though some people don't feel complete unless they do. I personally believe that gender is more in the head than in the crotch, who you are and how you think and what you project. In Native American tribes, these people are known as "Two Spirits". Much has been written and debated... you don't have to choose just one gender or the other.

I'm fairly sold on the notion that I've got two very different (and yet very similar) people in my head. Both are bisexual. Both are Dominant.

On the other hand, I only seem to have one voice as it pertains to physical intimacy.

My current genitalia is a source of discomfort for a variety of reasons. Some of the reasons are easier to deal with than others. But overall... I find myself unsatisfied and wholly disappointed that I cannot have sex the way I visualize myself having sex in fantasies.

It's one thing to use sexual aids and toys. But I can't feel the sensations in doing so. Mentally, I might reach some point of satisfaction. Physically, I am unable to in the way I imagine to be normal - in a way I am interested in (pardon me) getting off to.

All that aside, I feel that with the medicine and science of today I would be no better off... no happier... in opting to alter my gender through surgery and hormone therapy.

(in reply to farmbound1)

Post #: 5

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:27:39 AM

swtnsparkling

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Im not sure if this is the same. But many times while having sex. I can imagine myself in my partners place- what it must feel like to him. For instance a touch I place myself there(as if I were feeling as a man) would I like this type of touch- and I do it. I can feel myself almost being absorbed into him like we are one.

Ok I'm not sure I make any sense at all- so I am going to stop before I sound any nuttier.
swt-an odd duck at times- be gentle lol

_____________________________

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Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to BendingGender)

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RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 3:33:34 AM

BendingGender

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Joined: 1/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

Im not sure if this is the same. But many times while having sex. I can imagine myself in my partners place- what it must feel like to him. For instance a touch I place myself there(as if I were feeling as a man) would I like this type of touch- and I do it. I can feel myself almost being absorbed into him like we are one.

Ok I'm not sure I make any sense at all- so I am going to stop before I sound any nuttier.
swt-an odd duck at times- be gentle lol

I think you may be right. It's not quite the same thing. But I appreciate hearing what you've got to say. I'm interested in hearing any and all viewpoints either here in the forums or on the other side via email.

As for touching certain areas while engaged in intercourse I'm afraid that wouldn't work in my case. I don't find it possible to have what would be considered normal sex presently. It doesn't feel right.

I would be thrilled to reach the point you mentioned, in which you feel completely joined with your partner. But I am currently at the point where I'd be walking-on-air ecstatic just to have mediocre sex, as I am now.

(in reply to swtnsparkling)

Post #: 7

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 4:22:44 AM

deeddlit

Posts: 484
Joined: 1/7/2007
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I don't really have any helpful advice for you but I can speak to your feelings of duality.

I have very often felt the way you describe. I would not claim that I have felt it to the same extreme though as it has never seemed to interfere with my ability to enjoy sex.

I an ideal world, the one that is in my head, I too would be able to change sexes like I change my socks...that is to say the anatomy only though. I have often fantasized about this but have never spoken to anyone about it. In my fantasies I am just whatever I happen to be that time. I do not seem to prefer one or the other. I can change sexes in the middle of the fantasy as well to suit the situation.

It is not the same but it is somewhat similar...I do not think you are alone.

Take care
Ladydeeddlit

(in reply to BendingGender)

Post #: 8

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 4:30:58 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
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From: Stourport-England
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Hi BG

So, can I ask please. which of the two "official" physical sexes you are now? And which of the two "official" genders you identify as socially, if different?

E
(mtF TS, btw)

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Post #: 9

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 4:42:21 AM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: deeddlit

I don't really have any helpful advice for you but I can speak to your feelings of duality.

I have very often felt the way you describe. I would not claim that I have felt it to the same extreme though as it has never seemed to interfere with my ability to enjoy sex.

I an ideal world, the one that is in my head, I too would be able to change sexes like I change my socks...that is to say the anatomy only though. I have often fantasized about this but have never spoken to anyone about it. In my fantasies I am just whatever I happen to be that time. I do not seem to prefer one or the other. I can change sexes in the middle of the fantasy as well to suit the situation.

It is not the same but it is somewhat similar...I do not think you are alone.

Take care
Ladydeeddlit

Thank you for responding. I was pretty sure that when I posted this I'd find a handful of people who had felt this, at least to some degree or another.

I find that if you begin a sentence with, "Does anyone else ever..." it's usually the case that someone will, does or has in the past. Unless the person finishes that sentence with "Want to fly themselves into the sun just to find out if it's really as hot as I've heard it's said to be." I'm fairly certain that no one would respond in the affirmative to that. Then again, I could be wrong.

As for being unable to enjoy sex... I sometimes worry that my interest in possessing the anatomy of another gender comes from this inability of mine.

Sex, in my albeit limited experience, has always been painful. Various means of foreplay bore me at best, and at worst, make me feel uneasy. Sometimes I feel so incredibly awkward that I simply shut down. The other person could be playing with Legos or Playdoh for all the response I give them in such times.

I'm left to question which came first ~ the chicken (rampant fantasies in which I possess alternative genitalia) or the egg (my complete distaste - and perhaps fear of - "traditional" sex).

Thinking about sexually functioning as the opposite gender arouses me. Thinking about using my current genitalia for anything other than basic bodily functions makes me shudder with disgust.

Have I conditioned myself, I wonder. Or do my fantasies reflect my genuine interests?

In thinking long and hard about this question I can recall no fantasies growing up that involved the use of my existing genitals. But from a young age I understood who had what under their skirts and pants. And I knew how they were supposed to function. I just wish I knew for certain...

(in reply to deeddlit)

Post #: 10

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 4:54:26 AM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hi BG

So, can I ask please. which of the two "official" physical sexes you are now? And which of the two "official" genders you identify as socially, if different?

E
(mtF TS, btw)

I am genetically female. I currently function as female around family and most friends. A very close friend of mine is aware of my discontent.

She's the closest to me when it comes to personal matters such as this. And after I divulged my thoughts to her she seemed amused... adding on in closing that in the back of her mind she'd thought of me as the "perfect boyfriend trapped in a woman's body" for quite a while. I won't go into reasons why in any great length or detail.

And a few friends who are not as close, but fairly trusted, are partially aware and suggest it's a case of "Penis Envy". However, they are unaware of the depths to which I've traveled as I roll the concepts around in my head.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 11

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 5:01:28 AM

deeddlit

Posts: 484
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Have you thought about possibly living your day to day life as the other gender for an extended period of time to see how that feels for you? Obviously this does nothing in as far as adressing your ability to enjoy sex currently but if you do in fact get arroused when thinking about yourself having sex sporting the opposite genetalia...it may be a good place to start. *shrug*

Ladydeeddlit

(in reply to BendingGender)

Post #: 12

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 5:12:50 AM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: deeddlit

Have you thought about possibly living your day to day life as the other gender for an extended period of time to see how that feels for you? Obviously this does nothing in as far as adressing your ability to enjoy sex currently but if you do in fact get arroused when thinking about yourself having sex sporting the opposite genetalia...it may be a good place to start. *shrug*

Ladydeeddlit

I haven't considered trying that in the past. And perhaps it's because I wouldn't make a very convincing male. I'm only five foot two. I'm a 36DD. And I don't exactly look my age. I realize that I'm fairly young. But if I'm wearing something that adaquately conceals my upper body I've had a few people guess as low as sixteen. I suppose they could have just been miserably bad guessers.

If I were to identify as a hermaphrodite I suppose I could reconcile that in my mind. But I'm not sure how I would feel if I were to dress more masculine... if I were to use masculine pronouns and adopt masculine behaviors. I think I might feel, in my current form, silly and really rather frustrated.

(in reply to deeddlit)

Post #: 13

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:59:47 AM

Devilslilsister

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I'm sure this isnt the same thing, but i've always wanted to be a man. In my life i have taken on so many different guy traits that i've had lesbian friends tell me that i'm "in the closet" I can get very "butch" easily. I've always hated being a girl.

i walk like a man, sit like a man, talk like a man, dress like a man, and well go about doing guy things. My friends were guys and i was always "one of the guys" In my brothers neighborhood, i was the only girl who was allowed to play with the boys. I played war, foot ball, soccer, gi joes, wrestling and i emmunlated them i suppose.

I've had to come to terms. Not only am i NOT a boy, i grew up small and petite and have the strength of a girl. I have had to consciously change the way i sit, dress and Master is helping me with the way i walk. Since my early 20's i've been trying to learn to be more "girl" like. Master would also like it if i was more girlish and works with me alot on it, but if i'm not thinking about - i revert back to my natural state. Luckily, certian girlie things have become more natural for me now. Just takes practice and time

These days i honestly would prefer to be more like a girl. i enjoy it now. I just have to learn how and figure it out. So now i watch all the girls. It can be very frustrating as i dont know why its got to be so hard for me. But that is life.

Hope this helps in some way = )

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 1/15/2007 7:00:05 AM >

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RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 1:24:50 PM

CalliopePurple

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From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

Right now, the real world has me a little too stressed and upset to form a proper response to this. But I'm FTM TS, and you can always message me on the other side if you want someone who was in a similar state not long ago, sexual issues included.

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

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RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 1:30:19 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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At age 22, I wouldn't worry about it. You'll figure things out as you go along in life.

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Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 16

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 2:02:07 PM

deeddlit

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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On Logo one evening I was watching an interview with one person that I found to be incredibly facinating. While geneticaly female, she does not subscribe to either gender at all. She prefers to just be seen as a person and seems to be pushing all the so called gender rules right out of her way. She seemed to maintain a rather androgenous look leaning slightly to the masculine. She seemed to love pushing peoples gender issue buttons as a way to not necesarily upset them but I think more than anything to make them aware of them. Usualy the more we are aware of something it seems to always get us talking and of course talking is always better than pretending it is not there. I was very facinated with her story. She was in college at the time of the interview and was focusing her education on gender issues. What a terribly interesting college career, at least from my perspective.

Take care,
Ladydeeddlit

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 17

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 2:40:48 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farmbound1

Gender is not a binary thing. A person doesn't have to be "man" or "woman" even though our society would like to think these are the only choices.

It's not always a "society" thing. There is sometimes a necessity, like if the person you are interacting with wants to pro-create. Ambiguity isn't acceptable in all circumstances.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 18

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 2:46:13 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

To me, domination is a masculine energy, so it makes sense to me that you feel like your a woman (cause thats what you physically are) and you feel masculine energy cause you are relating to dominant energy. I think we all have a bit of both inside us.

When I think about it and delve into myself, I feel pretty neutral on a day to day functional basis, not female, not male, yet have the qualities of both that can be applied to the situations in life to best get things done.

In sexuality, and without going into this too much, I believe sexuality has everything to do with relationship, it takes a dominant man to overcome my neutrality and call forth my femininity and it is that alchemical process that brings relationship into being. I believe our physical bodies are actually vessels for transmission of energy, and our organs have the ability to channel particular energies suited to it. Example: our physical hearts can actually channel love as an energy. ..so it makes sense to me..because I have a female form, that the most compatable energy to channel is femininity within relationship......its not that I can't display masculine type traits..but for the energy to be flowing completely and wholey...the juice thats flowing has to be compatable with the engine using it. (You can run a car on the wrong oil but it wont be as powerful as running it on the correct oil).

In relationship, I think how we feel about our sexuality and what we are feeling in it, has a lot to do with our partners (dependant of course on the fact that you're actually having a *relate*ionship with someone else and not just yourself..which i think a lot of people who look like they are in a relationship with another person, actually aren't..but thats a whole nother topic)...because relationship itself is entirely an entity unto itself, created by two people submitting to each other, resultant from the equational conclusion of the combined energy each is capable of chanelling and bringing to the relationship.

Anyways, its from this understanding, that i can comprehend why men can feel feminine, and women can feel masculine...and its all good as long as you find a compatable partner.

Too weird?

_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to deeddlit)

Post #: 19

RE: Man... Woman... And Everything Between - 1/15/2007 6:16:14 PM

BendingGender

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

I'm sure this isnt the same thing, but i've always wanted to be a man. In my life i have taken on so many different guy traits that i've had lesbian friends tell me that i'm "in the closet" I can get very "butch" easily. I've always hated being a girl.

i walk like a man, sit like a man, talk like a man, dress like a man, and well go about doing guy things. My friends were guys and i was always "one of the guys" In my brothers neighborhood, i was the only girl who was allowed to play with the boys. I played war, foot ball, soccer, gi joes, wrestling and i emmunlated them i suppose.

I've had to come to terms. Not only am i NOT a boy, i grew up small and petite and have the strength of a girl. I have had to consciously change the way i sit, dress and Master is helping me with the way i walk. Since my early 20's i've been trying to learn to be more "girl" like. Master would also like it if i was more girlish and works with me alot on it, but if i'm not thinking about - i revert back to my natural state. Luckily, certian girlie things have become more natural for me now. Just takes practice and time

These days i honestly would prefer to be more like a girl. i enjoy it now. I just have to learn how and figure it out. So now i watch all the girls. It can be very frustrating as i dont know why its got to be so hard for me. But that is life.

Hope this helps in some way = )

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate hearing varying viewpoints on this matter.

I find my situation more and more frustrating. And I'm not sure that I could ever really resign myself to what I am now. Trying to pretend that I haven't got what feels like two different people occupying the same skull doesn't seem as though it would be a very workable solution. In short, I simply feel very incomplete.

(in reply to Devilslilsister)

Post #: 20

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