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Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:26:25 AM

crouchingtigress

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From: Maui
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...is that the same or different then therapists who have sex with their patients?

And has there been a breech of trust when both people consent?

(looks like the same question but it is really 2 separate ones)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:34:05 AM

daddysprop247

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From: DC Metro area
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yes i think it is a similar sort of thing to a therapist/psych having sex with one of their patients, if the Mentor relationship is taken seriously. however, i don't view either scenario as automatically unethical or wrong.

my Master started out as my Mentor...and one day totally unplanned by either of us, we had sex. i didn't feel as if my trust had been betrayed or that he had done any harm to me. although i did asssume that he would stop mentoring me after that (i was wrong). He's a good Mentor, many have grown into wonderful submissives, slaves, Dominants and Masters under his guidance. He doesn't have a habit of having sex with his female mentees...just in my case, it just happened. it didn't hurt the relationship, and not very long after that, he decided to become my Master. :) so it all really depends on the people and the situation.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 2

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:34:16 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think one can have both a healthy mentor/mentee relationship with someone and have a sexual relationship simultaneously.

But most people know I have a fairly low opinion of how mentoring occurs in the majority of the scene to begin with and I'd think sex was really what the mentor/mentee were after to begin with for the most part.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_519882/mpage_1/key_mentoring/tm.htm#519990
What exactly is a mentor supposed to do for/with a submissive?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_95421/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#95421
Mentors/Protectors for newbies dom/domme?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_139851/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#139851
Out of my depth, patience and its virtues

http://www.collarchat.com/m_149477/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#149477
My advice for novice female submissives

http://www.collarchat.com/m_210166/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#210166
Mentors, what are they and how do they help?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_283883/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#283883
Mentors

http://www.collarchat.com/m_493886/mpage_1/key_mentors/tm.htm#493886
Mentors (2)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to crouchingtigress)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:38:42 AM

Dnomyar

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If it happens during the course of mentoring then so be it. If the mentor is pushing for it from the start then he isnt a mentor.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:42:55 AM

MasterFireMaam

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Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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It depends on the situation. What if they're mentoring to learn sex magic? Can't do sex magic without sex.

Master Fire

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The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 5

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:43:14 AM

crouchingtigress

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From: Maui
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LA do you think that you can have a healthy sexual relationship with therapist?

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:46:47 AM

Missokyst

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Ummm sex magic? I am trying to envision what this might be but like most magic it escapes me. *poof*
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
What if they're mentoring to learn sex magic?

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:59:35 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
LA do you think that you can have a healthy sexual relationship with therapist?

Me? Sure.

Most people? no. Most women can't even have sex unless they feel intimate or reciprocated with emotional intimacy, so the ability to combine and separate those two relationships as necessary is simply not possible for them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 8

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 10:03:23 AM

thetammyjo

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I wouldn't have sex with the people I mentor because I consider a mentorship to be one that helps another person prepare for the same or similar role that I have -- teacher, student, top, dom, sadist, wife, cook.

I don't just see how our having sex fits into the model of them learning a role similar to my own. I mean, sure I masturbate but I think they can do that on their own without me.

Again this is based my definition of the word mentor.

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(in reply to crouchingtigress)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 10:07:58 AM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

LA do you think that you can have a healthy sexual relationship with therapist?

I would say generlaly, no - therapy relies heavily on a phenomona called transference - having sex with your therapist is virtual incest, but essentially it disrupts the theraputic process.

However, what we're talking about here, is essentially a sex therapist, so if you have the understanding going in that sex is involved, or it is agreed upon at some point, then there is no breach of trust or subversion of the dynamic - i.e., mentoring isn't technically therapy, but more akin to training.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 10

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 10:56:21 AM

MaryT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

...is that the same or different then therapists who have sex with their patients?

And has there been a breech of trust when both people consent?

(looks like the same question but it is really 2 separate ones)

Certainly different in that one is highly litigable and might involve a mightily unhappy governing board or malpractice insurance carrier.

I think in the first case (therapist): Yes, there is likely a breech of trust. The whole point is providing a safe place for the patient to be vulnerable and share intimacy. That assumes (and often legally requires) that the professional be responsible in setting boundaries.

In the second case, there is no such thing as a professional mentor and anyone so self-proclaimed is full of it. The rest are just people playing, and perhaps it comes down to choosing your playmates carefully. Even Doms teaching Doms or submissives teaching submissives are engaged in a pursuit of pleasure. The whole mentor thing could be a fantasy scene of it's own ...

For those who desire to learn and fall for mentors who are really out for erotic engagement ... you will learn something - live and learn.

You choose your authorities in that circumstance (given that is not true of everything in life). Choose well ... or abandon the idea of an "opposite's attract" mentor and just learn as you go with the rest of us bumbling human beings.

MaryT

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 11

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 12:18:00 PM

MasterWilliam55

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Joined: 1/27/2006
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"The whole mentoring thing could be a fantasy scene of it's own" MaryT

I never thought of it that way before...but perhaps your right. food for thought here.

I've only ever mentored 4 submissives over 25 years. These relationships lasted years and in the case of two of them our frienship has endured. Although there was no sex involved or secenes for that matter...I did get a rush when they contacted me with a problem...sometimes health, sometimes a problem with their Master.....etc. but I definitely enjoyed helping them or offering suggestions. In one case when both Master and sub asked me to help them, I got a big rush out of telling another Top/Master how to behave. Perhaps mentoring is a fetish..one that feeds my own ego. Definitely food for thought.

Once in a while someone says something in these forums, that makes me think. Ty MaryT
Maybe it is a fetish of sorts.

(in reply to MaryT)

Post #: 12

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 12:43:19 PM

Amaros

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Good point by Mary T., I mentioned the reason it is frowned upon in professional therapy, i.e., the patient is hghly vulnerable during transference - the whole idea is to develop trust so that the therapee can can communicate freely - and it is, in most cases, highly litigable and will most likely result in the therapists certification being revoked, there may even be criminal charges filed.

People being what they are, it does happen, but seldom without consequences.

"Mentoring", inthe BDSM sense, is not, as Mary T. described, a legal relationship in itself, and there is no accreditation involved. In the sense it is generally used, it does usually imply a non-sexual relationship - more along the lines of an advisor or coach.

A more hands on approach is usually referred to as "training", and constitutes a more (or less) formal sexual relationship.

It's certainly possible to combine the two, but I think such expectations should be negotiated beforehand, or if a non-sexual relationship threatens to turn into a sexual one, renegotiated - in the end, it really depends on the individuals involved, just as in any D/s relationship.

At the same time, if for instance in an explicitly negotiated non-sexual mentoring arrangement, in a scenario involving bondage say, if the mentor loses it and make it a sexual relationship while the mentoree (!) is unable to give or withdraw consent, then you may well have issues if a safe word or equivilent has not been negotiated that could define the consent.

Something to think about if you are playing with the dynamic and don't wish to negotiate it beforehand - or if the mentor is a third party and the student/acolyte has a largish boyfriend.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 1/18/2007 12:48:14 PM >

(in reply to MasterWilliam55)

Post #: 13

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 1:53:57 PM

dawntreader

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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Interesting thread.

i also think of a mentor as one that helps prepare/train/advise you in the same role as they.
but i have Doms that are friends and advisers; before i had any real time experience one of them became my teacher and exposed me to many things in the physical/sexual realm. There was no confusion of my place with him or in the dynamics of his "house" - i called him "teacher" (although a more dignified honorific was used). He knew before i that it was time for me to "leave the classroom" ...

my signature quote is in honor of my Sifu...

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There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 14

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 2:27:04 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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Sex magic....Domiguy is going to give you a non-sexual anal exam....stands you up...bends you over...puts on gloves...lubes up right index finger...and then slides in to your ass...You say "Oooooh!"...As you think my right index finger is still lodged deeply up your hiney ...I then wave both hands in front of your face and shout..."Ta--Daa."....Sex magic...or it could be "the David Copperfield"...some one else will have to explain that one...too tired.

Mentors are to teachers what serial killers are to sadists.

out.

D.G,

p.s. Jesus please protect me from yor followers..and anymore posts about creepy mentors.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 15

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 2:45:20 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Mentors same or different then therapists who have sex with their patients?

Different - very different and with a dramatic difference in consequence.

Most state law's do not recognize "consent" from a patient receiving therapy. Therapists can, and have been, sued by individuals who they had sex while a patient."Consent" is not a viable defense because it is argued that the manipulative nature of therapy removes personal choice. I don't necessarily agree, but lawyers use the argument effectively. If a personal relationship occurs the therapist must stop treating the patient formally as a therapist. Most professional associations for people identified as therapists of various types, suspend and sometimes terminate membership if there is a compliant. Often there is also the risk the therapist would lose their license to practice. Of course the therapist can marry the patient to eliminate the possibility of them testifying against them. It depends upon the divorce lawyer to determine which is more costly.

Other than the "Fraternal Association of Kinetic Egotist" Mentors, who may have similar secret banishing bi-laws in their group, the worst consequence is that they will be spoken of badly at the next Munch at Denny's.

The similarity is that in both cases the trick isn't having sex or a relationship it's surviving the day after sex or the ending of the relationship.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 16

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 3:35:11 PM

MaryT

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Joined: 12/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Sex magic....Domiguy is going to give you a non-sexual anal exam....stands you up...bends you over...

D.G,

LOL, but I think the difference is that mentors offer to teach you about you ... I guess therapists do the same thing, and lovers do to it the hilt, but they don't assume any knowledge beforehand (generally speaking). Mentors claim to teach you what someone else would want ... the last thing someone else would want is someone who paid cash to learn what interest and affectionate feelings would have granted them for free - and granted with no small pleasure from the one teaching. Quite a racket, IMO.

MaryT

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 17

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 7:41:30 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

...is that the same or different then therapists who have sex with their patients?

And has there been a breech of trust when both people consent?

(looks like the same question but it is really 2 separate ones)

Personally, I believe it is a serious breech of both trust and ethics. Though in truth, it's quite common for either or both sides of that equation (mentor and mentee) to utilize the mentoring in order to manipulate the other (or each other) into a sexual relationship.

I consider it similar to a teacher/student relationship. And while there may or may not be anything illegal about teachers and students engaging in a sexual relationship, there is a professional and ethical expectation that teachers, being professionals, will not allow the situation to occur. Humans are not like dogs, rutting in the street because we are unable to control our urges.

One of the issues I (and others) have about these relationships is the attraction (awe?) one often develops for anyone in such a position of influence (power?), and the attraction one often develops for anyone who seemingly wishes to please (obey?). In other words, the very nature of a mentor/mentee relationship may result in an attraction to the position, rather than the person. And as such, I consider it a misuse of that position.

John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

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RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 8:18:47 PM

junecleaver

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For me:Yes.Yes. It really just depends on your feelings about sex, relationships, and mentors.

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"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 19

RE: Mentors who have sex with their mentees.... - 1/18/2007 9:12:12 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

...is that the same or different then therapists who have sex with their patients?

And has there been a breech of trust when both people consent?

(looks like the same question but it is really 2 separate ones)

I believe it is unethical to have sex with one that you are mentoring. It would be less so if a mentor excused themselves from mentoring the individual for a period of time (6 months or so) to allow time for the situation to cool down, and for the mentoree to consider what their true feelings were about things....

I think that a power exchange dynamic should be entered into based upon complete consent, with both parties fully autonomous to freely agree. I believe that when one person starts out with some sort of leverage/authority/power over another individual either implied or implicit that this can lead to abuse of power... how can someone consent when they are not empowered within themselves, autonomous to make a decision or under the sway of someone that is perhaps not thinking of the best interest of the mentoree? Where is the objectivity to enter into this sort of relationship?

I do not expect everyone to agree with my views, but one day I will be teaching college, and I will have students, and some I will mentor. How would it seem if I began a sexual relationship with a student taking my classes? It would be an ethical breech. An abuse of power. And I would not do it. I see mentoring someone into a power exchange as nothing different.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 20

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