RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it...

RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (Full Version)

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Zensee -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/18/2007 10:02:27 PM)
The OP doesn't exactly make it clear if they are looking for play tortures, discipline strategies or outright punishments (which I agree, should match the crime). It's pretty much impossible to advise on any of those without knowing what is pleasing and what the bottom actually hates. So, without details, she'll have to take the generous but generic answers and not act insulted that they don't all fit. Beggars can't be choosers. Z.

angaothsi -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/18/2007 10:02:48 PM)
I honestly dont think LA was being anything but serious. The whole point of a punishment is to well...punish. Punishment isn't fun and often times it isn't sexy either. A very effective way to get a submissive or slaves attetion is to give them little or no attetion. I.E. you DON'T do this.....you DON'T get that We all have our moments and when I have mine He knows, his anger I can withstand, physical punishment I enjoy, but His dissipointment and Him ignoring me will snap my ass back in line quicker then you can blink. As for cooking naked.....sorry but ewwww, no naked asses in the kitchen please.

Celeste43 -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 4:29:38 AM)
Wouldn't this be counterproductive? If he's angry because you cut yourself down, his response is to be so harsh that you'll know you really are as valueless as you believe yourself to be? Weird. If he wants you to value yourself more, and think better of yourself then why beat you up more when you already do such a great job of it. Why not demand you write out things that are good about yourself? Make you recite daily a list of your ten best traits. As far as the most severe punishment, his disappointment. Nothing else is worse and if that isn't motivation enough, then IMO the relationship needs work.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 7:07:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angaothsi I honestly dont think LA was being anything but serious. The whole point of a punishment is to well...punish. Punishment isn't fun and often times it isn't sexy either. A very effective way to get a submissive or slaves attetion is to give them little or no attetion. I.E. you DON'T do this.....you DON'T get that We all have our moments and when I have mine He knows, his anger I can withstand, physical punishment I enjoy, but His dissipointment and Him ignoring me will snap my ass back in line quicker then you can blink. As for cooking naked.....sorry but ewwww, no naked asses in the kitchen please. I think if everyone in bdsm were required to take a remedial course in traditional psychological behavioral conditioning, we'd all be the better for it. The purpose of training/discipline/punishment/rewards is to CHANGE BEHAVIOR. Sometimes you can try and change thought processes but that's a far more cognitive processing issue and the dynamics of behavioral conditioning don't apply nearly as well. The terms to use are: positive- to GIVE something to someone negative- to take AWAY something from someone punishment- an action taken to DECREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated reward- an action taken to INCREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated You can have positive punishment- giving someone a flogging, you can have negative rewards- taking away their chores for a week. It's all really about "What behavior are they expressing?" "what behavior do I want them to express?" "How do I directly mold their current behavior into future behavior?" It can all get a lot more complicated than this, you got reinforcement schedules, you got many other types of behavioral conditioning, not to mention simply dealing with humans and all their crap. But if people even stuck to these essential basics, I think they'd be a lot more effective in their training and it would be a far smaller part of the relationship, rather than a rather significant part that so many people put into it.

MadRabbit -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 2:04:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: angaothsi I honestly dont think LA was being anything but serious. The whole point of a punishment is to well...punish. Punishment isn't fun and often times it isn't sexy either. A very effective way to get a submissive or slaves attetion is to give them little or no attetion. I.E. you DON'T do this.....you DON'T get that We all have our moments and when I have mine He knows, his anger I can withstand, physical punishment I enjoy, but His dissipointment and Him ignoring me will snap my ass back in line quicker then you can blink. As for cooking naked.....sorry but ewwww, no naked asses in the kitchen please. I think if everyone in bdsm were required to take a remedial course in traditional psychological behavioral conditioning, we'd all be the better for it. The purpose of training/discipline/punishment/rewards is to CHANGE BEHAVIOR. Sometimes you can try and change thought processes but that's a far more cognitive processing issue and the dynamics of behavioral conditioning don't apply nearly as well. The terms to use are: positive- to GIVE something to someone negative- to take AWAY something from someone punishment- an action taken to DECREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated reward- an action taken to INCREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated You can have positive punishment- giving someone a flogging, you can have negative rewards- taking away their chores for a week. It's all really about "What behavior are they expressing?" "what behavior do I want them to express?" "How do I directly mold their current behavior into future behavior?" It can all get a lot more complicated than this, you got reinforcement schedules, you got many other types of behavioral conditioning, not to mention simply dealing with humans and all their crap. But if people even stuck to these essential basics, I think they'd be a lot more effective in their training and it would be a far smaller part of the relationship, rather than a rather significant part that so many people put into it. I have to say this is is probably some of the most realistic advice on punishment I have yet to see on Collarme.com. The problem is that 80% of people, especially subs, seem to think its some kind of elaborate game. Like, for example, one the rules I set down with a girl was punctuality. On one of her visists to spend the weekend with me, she arrived 30 minutes late. After kneeling and apologizing profusely, she looked up at me and said "Are you going to make me sit in the corner?" First...you break my rule...and then you tell me how to punish you?! How is it a punishment if its something you clearly want to do? I've been reading this thread and I would never put this much though into planning punishments and making my punishment into a kinky and elaborate thing. My punishments are meant to be something the submissive does not like in the least and to correct behavior. The main thing submissive's want from their dominant is attention and praise. Ignoring them and showing disapointment in a controlled way often gets the job done. If that doesnt work and the problem continues to happen, then its time to back up the disapointment with a little something else to say "Hey, look, I'm not fucking around with this. I want it done." I am puzzled as to the point of sending a submissive to collect all the most "extreme" punishments they can find. So they can say "Now here...look...this is what I am gonna do if your not good..I mean it!" or perhaps so the submissive can choose the punishments she likes the best. My idea of an extreme punishment : Get rid of them If the behavior of a submissive is so bad that I have to put the time and energy into doing something catastrophically sadistic on such a regular basis, that I need a list of extreme ideas.to implement...then I am better off finding someone else. Personally, I dont want to do something really sadistic and erotic as a punishment because I like doing those things for my own fun. Now as far as actual realistc punishments.... If they wont do what I want them to do, ignore them. If that still isnt getting the point across, then lock them in a car or in a garage during the middle of winter dressed very scantily. Most people dont particularly like the cold. Now I am ignoring them, they are freezing, and have plenty of time to think about what they havent done for me. I like to pick out clothes for my submissive. Since I am a guy however and have no fashion sense, I have them make 3 outfits for me to choose. If they cant make a decision on what 3 outfits to pick out in ample time before the event (a problem that seems to be very common with women when it comes to picking out something to wear), then make them wear the most ugly mismatched outfit you can put together. If its a play party, make them go naked. The submissive forgets to use honorifics or talks too much. Enforce a period of silence. If they cant manage to stay silent, use a gag. These three examples were direct, straight to the point, and tailored to fit the crime. There was a bad behavior and the punishment was used to correct that particular behavior. I doubt many submissives will reply to this post and say "Wow...your punishments are absolutely perfect for me and just what I need." They arent supposed to be something you want to endure. They are supposed to be things you dont like and dont want to do to correct behavior I find unpleasing and inappropriate and to encourage behavior that I want. The point isnt "You do something bad and then I do something sadistic and erotic to you". The point is "You do something bad, I make you do something that is completely unenjoyable and then we do the sadistic and erotic things for fun when your good."

BooRadley -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 2:26:58 PM)
A nice "torture " I picked up from MasterJ, stretch a length of 3/4 " rough sisal rope across the room and make slave straddle it nude , where it is tight in the camel toe. Have slave walk the length of rope, back and forth. An hour or so of this will guarantee her attention to detail on following your next command !! Tends to make the cunt a little raw, they really howl later during a rough fuck. Boo

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 2:31:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit I have to say this is is probably some of the most realistic advice on punishment I have yet to see on Collarme.com. The problem is that 80% of people, especially subs, seem to think its some kind of elaborate game. Thanks Mad. And it's not just punishment they set up as an elaborate game of "Who's cooler and funner?" quote: The main thing submissive's want from their dominant is attention and praise. Ignoring them and showing disapointment in a controlled way often gets the job done. If that doesnt work and the problem continues to happen, then its time to back up the disapointment with a little something else to say "Hey, look, I'm not fucking around with this. I want it done." Well unfortunately most forget the "controlled" way and make it the "lazy easy way so I don't actually have to show that I have no clue how to really train you and will just ignore you until you go crazy with shame and guilt and confusion and thus obscure any chance you could figure out my incompetence...until next time at least." When my partner had a truly disgraceful and upsetting day with his behavior, I did not talk to him for two days afterwards. Before I started not talking to him, I made it clear how I felt, why I felt that way, and what specific behaviors were unacceptable. He wrote me two very long emails the next two days processing out what had happened. On the third day, I called him. We talked and worked through. He had the security in me to know I wasn't going to just leave him out to dry, even if he was very upset and unsure with himself. I think only once in the two years since then have I had to make any significant period of "ignoring." I don't think fear is an appropriate or effective way to control and train slaves in the long term- and that's what a lot of lazy doms are basically doing when they use the "ignore" tactic. I also think a lot of relationships are shaky and insecure and thus cannot withstand the pressures that "ignoring" seriously place upon them. quote: I like to pick out clothes for my submissive. Since I am a guy however and have no fashion sense, I have them make 3 outfits for me to choose. If they cant make a decision on what 3 outfits to pick out in ample time before the event (a problem that seems to be very common with women when it comes to picking out something to wear), then make them wear the most ugly mismatched outfit you can put together. If its a play party, make them go naked. LOL my issue is narrowing them DOWN. I usually start preparing an outfit in my head a week before a big event at least.

MadRabbit -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 2:49:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Well unfortunately most forget the "controlled" way and make it the "lazy easy way so I don't actually have to show that I have no clue how to really train you and will just ignore you until you go crazy with shame and guilt and confusion and thus obscure any chance you could figure out my incompetence...until next time at least." Aye, for the sake of fairness after my small rant, I will have to admit that I was guilty of that in the beginnings, a behavior I still have to work on. Not clearly defining why I was disapointed before actually being disapointed. It resulted in the shame, guilt, and confusion that you mentioned. But I quickly realized my mistake, explained to her, she understood because I was still new, then we continued. However, the damage was done none the less because of mistake and the relationship did become more shaky and insecure than before.

subsa -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 7:29:59 PM)
Mad Rabbit-- i really can't resist... Wow...your punishments are absolutely perfect for me and just what i need. this is a true statement however not just a joke. not because i like your punishments but because i strongly dislike them.

MadRabbit -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 9:35:42 PM)
Lol...theres always one shakes finger =P

mnottertail -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/19/2007 10:14:57 PM)
still the same, hit them with a cattle prod fuck em it dont take long before they get it, and you can do it until they do within reason, if the batteries wear out, get more. some shit just comes with consequences. Ron

justinasamerk -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/21/2007 5:29:35 PM)
In this assignment i have learned a great deal about myself and about punishment, a big issue is my "fetishized" view of punishment. Its a real eye opener.. Lucky-But if people even stuck to these essential basics.....Thank you,....this is advise that Sir and i have been discussing MadRabbit-How is it a punishment if it is clearly something the slave wants to do, that it right to the core of what i am facing. Thank you for the insite, you also brought up a point on "If the behavior of a submissive is so bad that I have to put the time and energy into doing something catastrophically sadistic on such a regular basis, that I need a list of extreme ideas.to implement...then I am better off finding someone else. " Hopefully it will not go to that stage in my relationship,but it seems to be a cycle of teaching, disobeying, punishing, crying, repentance, teaching...back allover a gain..... And Zensee, you are right, you may not have all the details, i know there is no time, not enough room,most people won't care, and its only from a perspective of a girl not the whole picture,.... I just wish there was a site or book, that would simply have a listing of offenses suitable for a crime, just like our cough judicial system...you break the law this is what you get....you disobey your Master this is what you get....i guess i am just looking for a black and white view of this...but as everyone pointed out, there are so many things that can be done and it depends on the offense..

MadRabbit -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/21/2007 6:50:14 PM)
quote: Hopefully it will not go to that stage in my relationship,but it seems to be a cycle of teaching, disobeying, punishing, crying, repentance, teaching...back allover a gain..... Then there is a greater issue present that needs to be addressed. What that issue is...I have no idea because its not my relationship. But also keep in mind, that punishments and rewards only serve to encourage and discourage behaviors. The decision to obey and follow the rules is ultimately the submissives responsibility. I can punishment someone endlessly for disobeying me, but if she still makes the deciision to not obey, then there is really nothing I can do. Thats why its called "consentual submission". "Serve/Obey or Leave" is the simple axion that D/S and power exchange rests on. If the submissive isnt willing to fulfill her part by obeying, then there is no D/S. You cant force her to obey because that would be...well...illegial. (Sucks how reality has a way of reminding you how powerless you really are, huh?) quote: I just wish there was a site or book, that would simply have a listing of offenses suitable for a crime, just like our cough judicial system...you break the law this is what you get....you disobey your Master this is what you get....i guess i am just looking for a black and white view of this...but as everyone pointed out, there are so many things that can be done and it depends on the offense. In my opinion, life is never black and white. In reality, the black and white judicial system rarely ever serves justice or is fair these days. Every submissive is different and thus the rules and punishments required are always different. Nobody can give you a black and white list because what works for one person wont work for the next. You just simply have to get to know your own partner and find effective ways to encourage behavior you like and discourage behavior you dont like. Of course, these are just my opinions gathered from my own experiences and lessons. Feal free to disagree.

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 5:19:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I think there can be no more extreme punishment than serving someone who is so clueless as to give you the quest you are currently on. I agree. If a lesson that is not directly related to the particular infraction isn't conveyed, then punishment is futile and the negative behavior is almost always repeated because nothing is learned by being punished. I never understood why one would enage in futility instead of a means to accomplish a goal. To me, it's a waste of energy and attuned to the clueless spitting in the wind. A Dominant who punishes wisely, seldom punishes. LBO

LeatherBentOne -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 5:25:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: angaothsi I honestly dont think LA was being anything but serious. The whole point of a punishment is to well...punish. Punishment isn't fun and often times it isn't sexy either. A very effective way to get a submissive or slaves attetion is to give them little or no attetion. I.E. you DON'T do this.....you DON'T get that We all have our moments and when I have mine He knows, his anger I can withstand, physical punishment I enjoy, but His dissipointment and Him ignoring me will snap my ass back in line quicker then you can blink. As for cooking naked.....sorry but ewwww, no naked asses in the kitchen please. I think if everyone in bdsm were required to take a remedial course in traditional psychological behavioral conditioning, we'd all be the better for it. The purpose of training/discipline/punishment/rewards is to CHANGE BEHAVIOR. Sometimes you can try and change thought processes but that's a far more cognitive processing issue and the dynamics of behavioral conditioning don't apply nearly as well. The terms to use are: positive- to GIVE something to someone negative- to take AWAY something from someone punishment- an action taken to DECREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated reward- an action taken to INCREASE the likelihood of a particular behavior being repeated You can have positive punishment- giving someone a flogging, you can have negative rewards- taking away their chores for a week. It's all really about "What behavior are they expressing?" "what behavior do I want them to express?" "How do I directly mold their current behavior into future behavior?" It can all get a lot more complicated than this, you got reinforcement schedules, you got many other types of behavioral conditioning, not to mention simply dealing with humans and all their crap. But if people even stuck to these essential basics, I think they'd be a lot more effective in their training and it would be a far smaller part of the relationship, rather than a rather significant part that so many people put into it. Great post, LA. You're right on here.

MistressDiane -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 10:22:50 AM)
I've always been of the mindset that if one truly wishes to make you happy through service that they're not going to make mindless mistakes over and over causing you undue stress, disappointment and aggravation. In fact, personally, I won't tolerate it. Sure everyone makes mistakes and yes they have to go through a learning process to know what you expect. Of course, as others have stated, if it's about punishment as a playtime is your thing then to each their own but I don't feel that punishment should be a game.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 10:37:55 AM)
A lot of slave/subs continue to repeate mistakes over and over again are in my mind eye are attention sluts begging in their own way for attention.WE won't tolrate mistakes after the submissive has been told the correct way of doing things...Of course there are some poor souls out there that just can get it right.I am lucky that I don't own such a creature..WILLIAM

MasterBKM -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 11:09:21 AM)
I would have to say that extreme would be making her fuck all My Freinds and made to feel like a worthless piece of shit then ignored for x amount of time.. I have made one shave her head. and wear a sign that says I suck out in public. Making her kneel and crawl in the local walmart also worked well .

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 11:13:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterBKM I would have to say that extreme would be making her fuck all My Freinds and made to feel like a worthless piece of shit then ignored for x amount of time.. I have made one shave her head. and wear a sign that says I suck out in public. Making her kneel and crawl in the local walmart also worked well . LOL and for me I've done all that for FUN. Granted, if I knew it was a punishment, then it would be so and I wouldn't have enjoyed it. But I question what fucking all your friends, making her feel worthless, shaving her head, proclaiming that she sucks and crawling in public has to do with training behaviors? What exact behaviors were you trying to discourage and what behaviors were you trying to encourage here?

TreasurePet -> RE: Actual Punishments-Not Defining it... (1/22/2007 11:18:13 AM)
The problem with defining punishment is that it is what the slave/submissive/bottom will not enjoy. For me the most extreme punishment is being ignored/neglected. I enjoy pain .. my Owner will only hurt me or be rough with me if I am good. Physical "punishment" is not punishment. The majority of the time if I have to be punished it is in revoking privileges for a set amount of time.

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