RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self

RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (Full Version)

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arabiandancer -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 1:46:04 AM)
wow....I am so sorry...I couldn't help but feel her pain...I cried! I know the feeling, very well indeed....tell her to be strong...tell her He will soon come...tell her He will find you...and tell her, she is sooooo beautiful.

junecleaver -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 6:09:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit During a conversation with a submissive regarding her issues with giiving up control and submitting to the will of a dominant, she mentioned she was afraid of losing her sense of self by becomming devoted and focused on the needs and wants of the dominant. This was something I was at a bit of a failure to respond to so I was hoping perhaps some of the experienced slaves and submissives could shed some insight into this issue. Is the issue of forgetting one's sense of self a valid concern when a person is focusing on the needs and wants of another before their own? I try to live my life focusing on the needs of others before my own in general. In my love life, this goes into hyperdrive. I think it can be an issue when your dominant does not have your best interest in mind. It is a very valid fear if you end up with someone who tears you down without so much as a plan to build you back up. I think submission is another way to discover more about myself. That sensation that she refers to as 'losing yourself' (for me at least) is really what it feels like to find out new things about myself. It is scary which is why people look at it like a bad thing. In the end, it's best to pick a partner that is going to meet your needs and allow you to meet theirs. It's kind of vague, but I cannot think of a more solid strategy for finding and maintaining a relationship. quote: ORIGINAL:eroticBBWsub I cant imagine ever doing this again, ever trusting someone to that degree, ever giving myself to someone like that. I lost myself in him and now having lost him, I feel like I have lost myself, that I am lost now. I would tell any novice that its great when he holds you and wants you. Losing yourself and devoting yourself only to him is great while he still wants you. But when he changes his mind and releases you for no understandable reason, I dont think its worth the risk, or worth the pain. Now I need to figure out what to do now. You are more resilient than you could imagine. We have the ability to find hope in unlikely places during our most painful times. I think that we don't give ourselves enough credit. You can and will recover if you allow yourself. I have probably learned more in the moments of being 'lost' than in the moments of walking in one certain direction towards one certain destination.

antipode -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 8:32:28 AM)
People who are afraid of losing their sense of "self" generally aren't submissive, they're controllers. I've seen this on a number of occasions with women who (genuinely) thought they were submissive, and were using their submission to control their partner/dom/whatever. Other than in very extreme circumstances, such as long term forcible incarceration, and long term psychological control, a human being can't lose their "self". The self is a moving target - a person learns, evolves, and one's core, "self" is there, and it guides one's development. It is interesting to see that a controlling personality tries to submit, then does not feel the purpose, and becomes insecure. A true submissive personality could never ask this question. I will, with such a person, try and gently guide them to where they can negotiate, instead of manipulate.

RandomGAGirl -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 8:33:53 AM)
I've heard of subs/slaves worrying about losing part of themself while serving. I just feel if you are with the right person and already strong/confident it won't happen. Even if you aren't that strong if you are with someone that really cares for you they aren't going to let that happen and if it is right your own needs/wants are going mesh with the one you serve. I think that is why it so important to serve someone that you are going to be compatible with naturally.

mignoette -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 9:04:34 AM)
I respectfullydisagree Antipode. When I was new to all this i had that very fear of losing myself to service. Looking back it lead me to explore what i truly am and whether this was the riht place for me. I think any slave with a true sense of self would have this concern at one time or another. It can lead to a more introspective place where one can learn more about oneself

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 9:25:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode People who are afraid of losing their sense of "self" generally aren't submissive, they're controllers. I've seen this on a number of occasions with women who (genuinely) thought they were submissive, and were using their submission to control their partner/dom/whatever. Other than in very extreme circumstances, such as long term forcible incarceration, and long term psychological control, a human being can't lose their "self". The self is a moving target - a person learns, evolves, and one's core, "self" is there, and it guides one's development. It is interesting to see that a controlling personality tries to submit, then does not feel the purpose, and becomes insecure. A true submissive personality could never ask this question. I will, with such a person, try and gently guide them to where they can negotiate, instead of manipulate. A controlling person is ALREADY insecure in this way. That doesn't cancel out their submission. I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask when contemplating such an absolute relationship as this- where you could relinquish all authority over things you've come to hold very dearly over yourself and associate with who you are. It's not at all something we're taught as we grow up- that fulfilling who we are is what makes us who we are. But I agree that the idea here is to help them reach a place of inner security. At that point they can be able to see for themselves what will work and won't. However, your false absolutes of what "true submissive personalities are" don't fly with me.

KnightofMists -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 2:36:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Is the issue of forgetting one's sense of self a valid concern when a person is focusing on the needs and wants of another before their own? yes it is a valid concern.... a post I did alittle while back quote: There does seem to be a mindset that in order to evolve into successful D/s relationship that a submissive/slave must scarifice their self-identity. For me, those that express a lost of self-identity it will raise alot of red flags. With all the reading and learning that I have gathered to this date, I have yet to see it to be a mentally healthy exercise to lose one's self-identity. A person that identifies as a submissive/slave will find themselves stronger than the person that attempts to absorb the identity that another has of them. A self-identified person will have the ability to grow and enhance their own self-esteem that is dependent from within themselves. An individual whose self-identity is dependent on another will also have their self-esteem/confidence dependent outside of themselves. We came into this world as dependent indivduals. It was only through establishing our independence that we discover our identities and can grow into healthy confident adults. As we grow as adults we find ourselves with the challenge of maintaining a constructive and happy relationship. This is a challenge that many struggle with as evident by the number of failed relationships that is evident for all of us to see. I see to often that individuals that are struggling in their efforts to establish a healthy relationship dynamic will evolve into a Co-dependency relationship. Submissives (Dominants not excluded) in particular have been more like to set themselves up into a Co-dependency dynamic. These types of relationships could actually be rather sucessful... IF the cycle is maintained. Depending on the exact dependency issues (be thy positive/negative) one can see a happy co-dependent situation or see a unhappy relationship. I personally do not see that positive co-depedency dynamics as being very likely in most cases. Most co-dependency dynamics evolve into a more destructive path. The other path that many try to follow is the Inter-dependency relationships. Inter-dependency is more about the WE of the relationship rather than the "I" of independence or the "Him/Her" of co-dependency. Many individuals have to learned how to evolve their views of their self-identity as an independent individual into that of an independent person apart of a Inter-dependent relationship. I see that as we grow into an interdependent relationship our self-identity evolves and grows. We start to look at life and choices not in just in the context of "I" but as of "We" as well. Our self-identities do not have to become lost in this Inter-dependent relationship. It is really the sharing and appreciation of all the self-identities that exist in the relationship. As we share and become more open to those in the relationship... I see the inter-depedency grows and if becomes healthier and happier I believe some fear losing themselves due to the realization that placing one's needs/desire dependent on another is a high risk path. I myself seek to guide my girls to paths of Inter-dependency rather than co-dependency. I seek enhance and grow our relationship that shows the WE.. rather than him or I. It is how I deal with the issues of fears of losing oneself. Instead of losing oneself... oneself is maintained and protected but becomes apart of something greater than just the individual... it becomes a part of the WE

juliaoceania -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 2:52:41 PM)
quote: People who are afraid of losing their sense of "self" generally aren't submissive, they're controllers. Well I was taught that the only thing I can truly control in this life is myself, so yes, I would say I have control issues surrounding that. I am relieved to say that every year that goes by I am only into controlling that which I am responsible for, and that is my own behavior. quote: I've seen this on a number of occasions with women who (genuinely) thought they were submissive, and were using their submission to control their partner/dom/whatever. I suppose you are talking about topping from the bottom? There is another thread going on here right now about this phenomena quote: Other than in very extreme circumstances, such as long term forcible incarceration, and long term psychological control, a human being can't lose their "self". The self is a moving target - a person learns, evolves, and one's core, "self" is there, and it guides one's development. I think you are very wrong about this, I think in some relationships within WIITWD some submissive types are very much in danger of losing their sense of self if they submit to the wrong individual, which is why we should be cautious about who we hand power to within the context of our lives. Some people abuse power, and when contemplating giving another person power over you it is only common sense in my mind that one would contemplate the repercussions of doing so... those who do not can easily end up compromising themselves in very deep psychologically disturbing ways, that risk is very real. quote: It is interesting to see that a controlling personality tries to submit, then does not feel the purpose, and becomes insecure. There have been some that thought of me as a strong personality (I do in fact have a strong personality). I have my share of insecurities, being the imperfect person that I am. I do not know one person that does not hold a few insecurities... it is the human condition after all. I would say that becoming flourishing submissive is to be a secure one, but that is true of being a flourishing human being in general, it is not specific only to submissives. quote: A true submissive personality could never ask this question. I will, with such a person, try and gently guide them to where they can negotiate, instead of manipulate. Are you a submissive? I read your profile and it says "dominant". I would think that you could not really know what being a twue submissive feels like unless you are one. Even then it is a varied experience. For example I have no idea what being a dominant feels like. I do not know if it is an insecure feeling that spawns the desire to get power from others, or if it comes from wanting to share energy (which I hope is the motivation for many of you). I would not think to speak to people in absolutes about an experience I have never had. It just seems presumptuous to me.

MadRabbit -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/20/2007 4:04:14 PM)
Once again, more thank you's to everyone, especially Knight of Mists. That was very insightful and gave me a different perspective to look at the issue from. Antipode, interesting theory and post. The disagreements I have with it have already been stated, but in general, I think your theory might be applicable to some cases, but is not an absolute. The girl in question did try to manipulate me on several cases during our time together, BUT she wasnt aware of it until I pointed it out and she did not have a controlling personality. She craved control and direction from other people, not just as an erotic thrill, but as a general need. The issue was she wanted to be controlled on HER terms and not mine...which is really a illusion and simply "playing D/S". Her subtle and almost sub concious manipulations werent spawned by a controlling personality or malice, but rather the subject of this entire thread. Fear of giving up control and inability to let go and trust. Baggage that is in no way unexpected given her past history with vanilla boyfriends and abusive Doms. Its easy to write off someone as "non submissive" and drop them rather than take the time to try and understand the barriers that are keeping them from fully submitting and developing. I hear about it all the time. "Oh well...I guess shes just not submissive. I guess I'll just get rid of her." Unfortanely however, achieving the goal of having that perflect doctile submissive that you can do whatever you want with often requires a lot of work and effort. Of course, you might say I am no better as I am no longer with the girl, but that is because we were a mismatched couple and regardless I am still here seeking insight to help her with her own path.

stateira -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/21/2007 4:46:58 PM)
I was terrified about this when I first became owned because I did not really become owned by choice. (long story). Master understood this fear and went very slow with me and kept telling me that it was definitely a valid fear and that a slave who gave herself completely would find herself before one who held back. He kept telling me that a girl in slavery was a girl who was the most free. I didn't understand this until I totally let go and put all my trust in him which took about a year for me to do. I have never been happier. I think that the Master has as big a responsibility in helping the girl keep her individuality while serving him as the girl does.

wyldsubmissive -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/21/2007 4:54:12 PM)
Here's my two cents. I don't like masks, because they make me afraid of losing myself. The reason that I have and the reason this young woman might have could very well be one and the same. We work so hard to figure out who we are, where we belong and what we want to do with ourselves. We worry about whether we're being respected as people, no matter what we call ourselves. To devote your entire being to another is an incredibly amazing experience, one that sets you apart. And it may give you the feeling of being boxed in. Essentially: when one works so hard to figure out themselves, even joyous devotion and servitude could be seen as a removal of that self knowledge. Yay for two cents! -Wyld

hersforever -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 3:53:24 PM)
Very cool thread. Domina and I have been discussing this topic as I am still battling with the ability to let go and truly submit to her. I am still very new and finding myself, and part of my mind is still stuck in the western puritanical ideology. But I know that for myself I have to believe that Domina has both her and my self interest at heart, and that by keeping my needs in her mind, I can let go and submit fully without a "loss of self." I know that I still exist and am a person of value to her with valid thoughts, ideas, and fears.

onestandingstill -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 4:58:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hissltviolet ..OH!!!...i love the term 'sub frinzy'...and how you discribe how it was for you...perfectly discribes exactly what i am experiencing at the moment...thank you so much...<giggles>...i have been telling Master that i feel like i am 'insane'...ah...but...such a delicious insanity...every sensation is so delightfully overwhelming...i do not fear 'losing myself'...like so many others have said...to let go of 'self' is to actually 'find' self...just redefined in the blissful influence of the Master...nothing could be better... <blushes> wishes happiness to everyone!!! Yes violet I felt this sub frenzy too. Right till my relationship crashed and burned 6 months in. I stayed in that 1st relationship for another year trying to be an honorable sub and just cope with things that were tearing me apart. Being able to trust, even the most honorable and loving Master now, will have bad trip for me terrors in giving up my will that are going to smack me in the face for quite a while. It's going to take working through this before I can inside get through my own neurosis and insecurity enough to really trust another. God help me if I choose poorly at that level again, I may not make it back a second time without deeper scars. It will take much more for me to be a submissive again or even have faith in myself left in my ability to choose

onestandingstill -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 5:02:48 PM)
Wow, what a view you have there. Some truly submissive women have indeed been ruined by bad choices and preversion of their submission. I can't believe you don't see that could be a possibility as well as the image you paint could be. quote: ORIGINAL: antipode People who are afraid of losing their sense of "self" generally aren't submissive, they're controllers. I've seen this on a number of occasions with women who (genuinely) thought they were submissive, and were using their submission to control their partner/dom/whatever. Other than in very extreme circumstances, such as long term forcible incarceration, and long term psychological control, a human being can't lose their "self". The self is a moving target - a person learns, evolves, and one's core, "self" is there, and it guides one's development. It is interesting to see that a controlling personality tries to submit, then does not feel the purpose, and becomes insecure. A true submissive personality could never ask this question. I will, with such a person, try and gently guide them to where they can negotiate, instead of manipulate.

backseatbebe -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 5:33:34 PM)
well when i asked a simalir question about loosing myself (if i became a slave) here are some the comments i found helped me out..... sorry i cant give credit to everyone that said them because i only kept the comments to read over, but the orginal thread they came from is "a slaves journey" hope it helps, because they helped me thanks everyone In many ways this journey is changing who I am intb a more honest version of myself. A good Master should free you from those internal defenses. Your sense of 'slave-self' comes from your own strengths, rather than an idea that you are led into from another party. If you are a person of strengths, you know what it is that you are willing to give up. Many times I have been broken down and then rebuilt some emotionally some mentally but all have been ultimatly for my improvement And because he knows I am bright, happy, and well thought of, he beams at the fact that I will go through such torment for him for no other reason than because he wanted me to. He is amazed at what I will do for him, and because he knows me so thoroughly, he knows I am not a mindless wanderer who does such things numbly and blindly. I am his little girl, his well respected slave, his companion, his object to play with, his anything. Each element is just that - an element of a much bigger picture. I am not "just" any one thing. That would make me rather one dimmensional. I am a complex being, made up of many elements and traits, that he has found a way to tap into and make the most out of. In doing so, I found myself and shed the baggage. In doing so, I am finally true to myself and can live no other way. And I will just say if I did not think highly of myself, then I would be doubting his own intellect and choices, and that would make me less perfect than if I served him with my complete, confident, wonderful self. (believing in him is really about believing in myself and the reason I choose to serve him) I do not believe I am a slut or a whore in general, but I am a slut and a whore for Daddy, but only for Him. I am His Slut and His whore. No one elses. This is how i identify for Him. I am also his cherished pet. This does not mean I am nothing else but these things. Wherever you go, there you are - there is no identity to be lost that matters in the slightest. Being a slave to someone does not mean you suddenly become less intelligent, less creative, less anything. You cannot run away from your self, you will always be "you". Submitting to someone else only means you consentingly gave up degrees of your will, not your identity or sense of self. If you feel you are a submissive or a slave then really, by giving yourself over to another then you are being more true to your self then if you didn't.

Celeste43 -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 5:48:05 PM)
Not loss of a sense of self but I'm still struggling with asserting my needs. I don't want to be another source of stress so it's hard for me to ask for things when he's already dealing with what appears to me to be more than a full plate. Partly because I don't want to stress him and partly because I expect him to respond badly to my needs when he's overloaded. But this comes from my marriage where my needs were always seen as undeserving of attention. So I wonder if she isn't coming from a past relationship of some sort where her sense of self was always belittled.

MaryT -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 7:11:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 So I wonder if she isn't coming from a past relationship of some sort where her sense of self was always belittled. That sounds like it may be good insight. Poor sense of self is almost the opposite of submissive, or dom for that matter, in my book.

Celeste43 -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/22/2007 9:46:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 So I wonder if she isn't coming from a past relationship of some sort where her sense of self was always belittled. That sounds like it may be good insight. Poor sense of self is almost the opposite of submissive, or dom for that matter, in my book. Really? I don't find that. I think they can coexist. But obviously the person would become a better, stronger submissive the more her self esteem improves. Just as the dom would become a more sensitive, thoughtful person as his sense of self improved. Re antipode, go do some research on abused women, you'll find that their sense of self is extremely diminished.

amiciaN -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/23/2007 2:52:11 AM)
I can testify that abuse can severly damage a person's sense of self to the point of feeling that those one loves would be better off without them. After 18 years in an emotionally abusive relationship, it took a couple of years of therapy and a lot of hard work to regain mine. Then I finally figured out that what was 'wrong' with me all those years wasn't really 'wrong' at all; I'm simply submissive. Figuring that out was the most empowering thing that every happened to me (followed very very closely by being collared by my Master NChaka). It gave me the strength to get out of that abusive marriage after 20 years. Then it took me another year and a half of work after that before I felt I was ready to serve anyone. Why would any Dominant want me, if I can't even explain who I am, why I desire to serve a Master and what I have to offer Him? Now I find I have the opposite problem; wanting to keep my focus on Him and finding myself exposed as completely 'self-serving' in various circumstances. But I also find that as I submit more and more to Him, the more I feel like I am becoming who I was 'meant' to be; more myself. I am extremely grateful for the help and patience my Master has given me in this part of my journey. My signature line is very true; thank You Master. [:)] As always, this is only my opinion based my experience. All relationships and people are different, ymmv.

MaryT -> RE: Fear of Losing Sense of One's Self (1/23/2007 6:31:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 Really? I don't find that. I think they can coexist. But obviously the person would become a better, stronger submissive the more her self esteem improves. I think of "sense of self" as knowing who I am. Self-esteem is how I feel about me. The former would be an important factor in venturing out to find a healthy Dom (knowing that what I am is a submissive). quote: Just as the dom would become a more sensitive, thoughtful person as his sense of self improved. I don't know if that's true but I guess it makes sense. quote: Re antipode, go do some research on abused women, you'll find that their sense of self is extremely diminished. I am aware of the phenomena. Abused children often face the same challenge. I see it as a hinderance in exploring in D/s, not an indication of sexual preference.

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