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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 10:25:30 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Look I hate to rain on your parade but there simply is no such distinction. If you want to legally live in the US you need to be either a citizen or a legal resident and both of those have to pay taxes etc. Also the 14th ammendment makes every citizen both a citizen of the US and of their state of residence.

This state citizen garbage has been shot down numerous times.

The DoJ's take on it:
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm#40.05[7]

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 21

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 10:30:04 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Look I hate to rain on your parade but there simply is no such distinction. If you want to legally live in the US you need to be either a citizen or a legal resident and both of those have to pay taxes etc. Also the 14th ammendment makes every citizen both a citizen of the US and of their state of residence.

This state citizen garbage has been shot down numerous times.

The DoJ's take on it:
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm#40.05[7]

kool but frankly that is all meaningless without knowing the full background which looks suspiciously like and admiralty court proceeding. Just seen a tape today where a harvard law professor mentioned it :) Oh and to add in which case you wold be correct.

secret illuminati masonic numerology

http://whale.to/b/howard1.html
http://whale.to/b/duke.html
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/index.php?p=1_9
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/21/2007 10:33:00 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 22

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 11:04:17 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

I have not read the link, nor am I goinjg to.

This is all old to me, I can pull up some UCC in court, and I can beat the IRS like a small stepchild.

Here is the problem, if you are a State Citizen, you then must comply with State law. It is a very rare and expensive thing when someone beats them in court. The thing I always ask is, what do you have at stake ? One guy, making around $250,000 a year had about a third of the at stake, he went sovereign, and got non-taxpayer status from the IRS, as if they can do anything like that. They are a private company, and I have copies ogf their incrporation papers in Deleware.

This is like Ford putting you in jail;, and it is the most potent defense, if used correctly. The IRS is The Internal Revenue Servicem, in their corporate charter has the sole purpose of accounting. How did they get guns and SWAT teams?

I do not pay taxes except on purchases, and I never will. They can go fuck themselves and I don't care what I am a Citizen of. This is mine, they do not get a cut.

Federal vs state Citizen has been used in court, and it was successful for a time, until they figured out the "defense". You can do whatever you want, but I suggest you do not antagonize the court. Our crowd has a guy doing 10-15 years over that, and he didn't hurt anyone. Just got stupid and sold some "product" to a snitch. All it takes sometimes.

Now here is what the bad part is, he spent alot of years making his business tax free. Great lengths, and even refusing certain jobs. But at around a quarter mil a year it becomes significant,

For most of us there is no sense doing anything like this. Simply not worth it. My friend has inherited the business, not though death, but though incarceration. He says like a few years down the road the business will be legit and paying taxes.

This is not my game and the guy who started it is in prison. I told him not to sell weed out the house, I told him alot of other things too. He did not listen.

I told him all I could, but he was an asshole and got busted.

You nevee to know what a State Ciyizen is, There is ALOT to learn.

The legal shit will drive you muts.

T

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 23

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 11:25:16 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The legal shit will drive you muts.

T

Yep that is another consideration because i am in business so though i can be soverieng i woudl still be liable for some kind of federal tax. not sure where the lines are drawn and the specifics. Like i said in another post being your own state carries a huge responsibility and requires lots of study and a good legal support system. i havent looked into it beyond this paper so far, definitely some hurdles to oversome.

secret illuminati masonic numerology
http://whale.to/b/howard1.html
http://whale.to/b/duke.html
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/index.php?p=1_9
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
Let he who hath understanding calculate the number!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 24

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 8:18:59 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Look I hate to rain on your parade but there simply is no such distinction. If you want to legally live in the US you need to be either a citizen or a legal resident and both of those have to pay taxes etc. Also the 14th ammendment makes every citizen both a citizen of the US and of their state of residence.

This state citizen garbage has been shot down numerous times.

The DoJ's take on it:
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm#40.05[7]

Here is some more for you to chew on!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1961162757270128196&q=New+World+Order

secret illuminati masonic numerology
http://whale.to/b/howard1.html
http://whale.to/b/duke.html
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/index.php?p=1_9
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
Let he who hath understanding calculate the number!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 25

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 9:16:03 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Well... I did it again. I stayed up last night way past my bedtime reading this related topic:

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/law/Mary.htm

Only got half way through it.

I finished reading this e-book last night. There were some areas where my eyes glazed over, so I will need to read it again.

However, I am even more excited than I was after reading the webpage of the first link I posted in my OP.

While there is some overlapping information, the author offers so much more here... and from a different perspective. State citizenship is not her focus, though I think the title to her book may be somewhat misleading.

I've written a brief note to the author, and will follow through by asking some questions... if she's willing to engage in correspondence with me.

Stay tuned.

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 26

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 9:24:01 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Well... I did it again. I stayed up last night way past my bedtime reading this related topic:

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/law/Mary.htm

Only got half way through it.

I finished reading this e-book last night. There were some areas where my eyes glazed over, so I will need to read it again.

However, I am even more excited than I was after reading the webpage of the first link I posted in my OP.

While there is some overlapping information, the author offers so much more here... and from a different perspective. State citizenship is not her focus, though I think the title to her book may be somewhat misleading.

I've written a brief note to the author, and will follow through by asking some questions... if she's willing to engage in correspondence with me.

Stay tuned.

be sure to check out this vid too! gives more tips and numbers as well as constitutional and tax attorneys advice etc etc....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1961162757270128196&q=New+World+Order

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 27

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 3:38:14 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Look I hate to rain on your parade but there simply is no such distinction. If you want to legally live in the US you need to be either a citizen or a legal resident and both of those have to pay taxes etc. Also the 14th ammendment makes every citizen both a citizen of the US and of their state of residence.

This state citizen garbage has been shot down numerous times.

The DoJ's take on it:
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm#40.05[7]

likewise i hate to rain on your parade

In Michigan, prosecutors (unsuccessfully) tried to convict Dr. Jack Kevorkian on charges of common law murder for his role in assisted suicides.
http://www.adl.org/mwd/common.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_court

i think you are missing the point here.

No one that i am aware of is saying that we shoudl not pay taxes hey?

We are saying that federal income tax is unlawfull, not state property taxes etc.

a quick search and you will find that common law is recognised by several states!

Who are you man?

secret illuminati masonic numerology
http://whale.to/b/howard1.html
http://whale.to/b/duke.html
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/index.php?p=1_9
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
Let he who hath understanding calculate the number!
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
----Thomas Jefferson

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/22/2007 4:17:48 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 28

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:03:56 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

From what I now recently understand, there's a difference between "legal" and "lawful."

"Legal" has to do with statute law, and "lawful" has to do with common law.

Also according to what I now recently understand, you are right, in that most of us are US Citizens and subject to the 14th Amendment. However, I also understand that our sovereign status was "contracted away" when our birth certificates were applied for. Since this was done without our knowledge and consent, I understand that this contract with the United States is invalid and can be reversed.

I'm still new at all this, so it's possible that I'm not using all of the correct terminology to explain this properly. Also, just because I've read all this on one website doesn't necessarily make it all true either.

But I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I hope you are too.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 29

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:12:06 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I do not pay taxes except on purchases, and I never will. They can go fuck themselves and I don't care what I am a Citizen of. This is mine, they do not get a cut.

Federal vs state Citizen has been used in court, and it was successful for a time, until they figured out the "defense". You can do whatever you want, but I suggest you do not antagonize the court.

Not antagonizing the court is probably excellent advice.

I'm curious, how long ago have you stopped paying Federal Income Tax? And... do you file at all? According to what I've read, when you file, you enter contract with the IRS.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 30

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:16:44 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Well... I did it again. I stayed up last night way past my bedtime reading this related topic:

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/law/Mary.htm

Only got half way through it.

I finished reading this e-book last night. There were some areas where my eyes glazed over, so I will need to read it again.

However, I am even more excited than I was after reading the webpage of the first link I posted in my OP.

While there is some overlapping information, the author offers so much more here... and from a different perspective. State citizenship is not her focus, though I think the title to her book may be somewhat misleading.

I've written a brief note to the author, and will follow through by asking some questions... if she's willing to engage in correspondence with me.

Stay tuned.

I should have mentioned that this second link deals with both the US and Canada!

Maybe I should have started a new OP, so some of our Canadian friends will join in the fun...

Edited for typos.

< Message edited by subfever -- 1/22/2007 4:18:30 PM >

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 31

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:42:04 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They are a private company, and I have copies ogf their incrporation papers in Deleware.

T

Hey term, i would gladly pay you to send me a copy of those and any other "good stuff" that you have availiable.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 32

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:51:50 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp

I am just more recently reading things such as this. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside just knowing that not everyone agree's with being sheeples even if nothing could at this point in time be done to stop the big monster.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

According to the lady who authored the e-book (my 2nd link of this thread), we can no longer stop the "monster." All we can do is stop playing its game. At the moment, I'm inclined to agree with her.

(in reply to starshineowned)

Post #: 33

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 4:53:14 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
They are a private company, and I have copies ogf their incrporation papers in Deleware.

T

Hey term, i would gladly pay you to send me a copy of those and any other "good stuff" that you have availiable.

Yeah... come to think of it, that would be an interesting document to have!

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 34

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 5:57:10 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
This state citizen garbage has been shot down numerous times.
The DoJ's take on it:
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm#40.05[7]

Ok so whats up with this?

From domkens link:

Because use of "common law" documents often begins during investigation and continues during prosecution, their use is evidence of willfulness for substantive tax charges, or the basis for an obstruction of justice or other enhancement at sentencing.

See United States v. Lindsay, 184 F.3d 1138, 1144 (10th Cir.) (upholding denial of acceptance of responsibility for obstructive conduct such as filing numerous frivolous documents), cert. denied, 528 U.S. 981 (1999); Wells, 163 F.3d at 894, 897 (upholding upward departure for "domestic terrorism" for use of common law arrest warrants).

Note it continues during ""prosecution"", not trial!

Since when is there a statute that specifies exactly the format a document nust have to be submitted in ones defense?

What kind of trash is this man? So people filing documents on their own behalf in support of their case is:

a) OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE????

b) DOMESTIC TERRORISM????

c) CITIZENS ARREST IS ILLEGAL????

i cant believe how they twist this shit!!

Whats up with this people? Is this the monster we created? Does that sort of even flicker a teenee little red light in everyones mind that this republic is in serious trouble????

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/22/2007 5:59:13 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 35

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 6:38:30 PM

luckydog1

Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

The phase of prosecution is the trial, they are not seperate things. Absolutly you are not allowed to arrest and detain someone on your own interpretation of common law. That is indeed illegal and should be. Does anyone else notice that Real keeps squawking about the constitution, but is now demanding that the courts accept other nations' laws over our own... And if you go to court citing other nations laws as evidence you do not have to pay taxes, you will be prosecuted, and indeed,"is evidence of willfulness for substantive tax charges, or the basis for an obstruction of justice or other enhancement at sentencing".

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 36

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 9:17:08 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The phase of prosecution is the trial, they are not seperate things. Absolutly you are not allowed to arrest and detain someone on your own interpretation of common law. That is indeed illegal and should be. Does anyone else notice that Real keeps squawking about the constitution, but is now demanding that the courts accept other nations' laws over our own... And if you go to court citing other nations laws as evidence you do not have to pay taxes, you will be prosecuted, and indeed,"is evidence of willfulness for substantive tax charges, or the basis for an obstruction of justice or other enhancement at sentencing".

Silly me, i thought that prosecution as well as defense were subsets of, or part of a trial. Guess i got it all backwards.

i do not recall saying anything about a "phase" of prosecution. cite it please?

i do not recall where i said or implied they were separate, so cite that too while you at it.

i do not recall where i said or implied "my interpretation" in regard to citizens arrest?

So whats your point here lucky, an education on what i did not say? Were you like wearing your glasses when you read this stuff?

As long as you are citing things, cite a link on how you figure citizens arrest is illegal?

District of Columbia Law 23- 582(b) reads as follows:

   (b) A private person may arrest another

(1) who he has probable cause to believe is committing in his presence -
(A) a felony, or (B) an offense enumerated in section 23-581 (a)(2); or
(2) in aid of a law enforcement officer or special policeman, or other person authorized by law to make an arrest.

However for the record and your overactive imagination, my interpretation of citizens arrest is that i can arrest someone for a felony;
http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm

well i have no clu where you are from but i am from the USA so that is why i use the constitution of the usa when i discuss issues of the republic of the usa.

over "our own"?

"Other" nations laws?

So where are you from man, russia? and you feel i should cite their laws in an american forum? Did you forget what country i am from and in?

i am in the usa, and talking about the constitution of this republic. not russia.

Do you get paid for passing on all this misinformation? Is there like a bonus in it for you if people believe it? i wonder if anyone else notices that?

WHO ARE YOU MAN?

secret illuminati masonic sites
http://whale.to/b/howard1.html
http://whale.to/b/duke.html
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/
http://openyoureyes.web1000.com/index.php?p=1_9
http://www.altnews.info/thetruth.html
Let he who hath understanding calculate the number!

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
----Thomas Jefferson

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 37

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 9:32:10 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

I've got a suggestion for RealOne. Go and do what ever scheme you think will work but send me your real name and street address. If you're right me turning you in to the feds will cause you no problem but if I'm right I'll get 10% of whatever they collect from you. You're not afraid to actually stand up for your claimed beliefs are you? You're not agitating others to break laws you're not willing to break yourself are you? Or are you simply yet another internet know it all who truly knows nothing?

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 38

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 10:36:19 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've got a suggestion for RealOne. Go and do what ever scheme you think will work but send me your real name and street address. If you're right me turning you in to the feds will cause you no problem but if I'm right I'll get 10% of whatever they collect from you. You're not afraid to actually stand up for your claimed beliefs are you? You're not agitating others to break laws you're not willing to break yourself are you? Or are you simply yet another internet know it all who truly knows nothing?

Scheme?

50 billion smackers of unpaid taxes? thats a helluva lotta taxpayers at a few grand each dont you agree?

www.treasury.gov/tigta/congress/congress_07262006.pdf

Here, right out of the 2006 treasury report to the senate finance committee:

Third paragraph where they are whining about all those who pay no taxes.

Because the tax gap poses a significant threat to the integrity of our VOLUNTARY tax system, one of my top

Voluntary?

Since when?

Where the hell is it voluntary under your law?

It says voluntary do you agree?

Since its NOT voluntary under your law then what possible reason would they have to use the term VOLUNTARY in there to the senate?

How do you explain the use of the word "VOLUNTARY", and how did it become to mean MANDATORY?

Buddy i would love to hear your explanation for this minor little anomaly.

So explain to me exactly what the hell is voluntary about in our voluntary tax system?

If in fact it is voluntary then tell me how i can opt out? Or maybe its you who is the internet know it all?

Or just maybe it really is voluntary and you are a copper top?
Bzzt Bzzt Bzzt Bzzt

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 39

RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/22/2007 10:50:07 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Nice try at evasion. Now why don't you actually respond to what I asked?

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 40

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