Being separated from a support system (Full Version)

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Celeste43 -> Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 11:58:18 AM)

In the abuse thread the op said that her dom's immediate response is to cut these people out of her life. Another poster said that anyone who expressed worry for her choices was immediately cut out of her life. An acquaintance I've been talking to said that her new dom has ordered her not to tell anyone about their relationship and especially not to get feedback from her longterm therapist.

I view all of these as unhealthy in the extreme. One should be able to explain to friends that your relationship is making you happy. Indeed I think if it really is, then your happiness should be apparent to them. Bruises will of course make the suspicion of abuse come up but this can be answered easily by saying the sex got rough but you'll heal. If you treat it as no big deal, then neither will they.

However I really think that a sub should be encouraged to keep a support system in case the relationship does go bad. Then she has someone to call if she's out on the streets without funds or a roof over her head. Or the dom gets hit by a car and she still winds up on the street she has no legal rights.

Do others also believe that a sub should not lose their support system or am I alone here?




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 12:02:50 PM)

I do not think a master should be limited in who they tell their slave to associate with due to fears of "what if."

There are many good reasons to cut ties and keep things hidden from people.

There are many good reasons to keep ties and be honest with people.

IN GENERAL, someone who actively seeks to cut off all communication and support isn't supporting a healthy and rounded life.

That's not quite the same as regulating contact with friends, family, and therapists. 




sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 12:38:27 PM)

I do think a Master should cut off those that are not healthy for the realtionship. I also think a submissive should have a support system available. Cuttting off everyone and isolating someone seems unhealthy to me.




wyldsubmissive -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 12:45:21 PM)

A support system is a good place to have in the background. It helps people function and gives them time to heal. I also think that when a Master/Mistress takes on a slave, there should be certain limits. For instance my prior Master told me I was not to tell anyone the intimate details of our encounters. Simple enough. I can understand why this slaves Master wouldn't want her to talk about it. It might come back to bite Him or her in the ass. And that sucks.

Do my friends knows I'm a sub masochist? Yes.
Have I lost my support system? My parents think I'm nutters, but no.
Does it ever bite me in the ass? Only when I do something stupid.

Isolating everything however is a very scary trust issue, and control issue.

-Wyld




MistressYlwa -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 12:47:21 PM)

quote:

An acquaintance I've been talking to said that her new dom has ordered her not to tell anyone about their relationship and especially not to get feedback from her longterm therapist.

 
I do not make my private life public. My boys are not to tell their "vanilla" friends or family about what we do at home. As a therapist, I know that most do not approve or support our lifestyle. For him to ask her to keep this private is not to keep her from support, but to protect themselves. If he had told her to not see her therapist, I might have concerns. It doesn't look like he is cutting her off from anyone. Just keeping their lifestyle private.
 
Mistress Ylwa




Coupleseeking321 -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:14:14 PM)

Cutting you off from friends and family is one of the signs of an abusive relationship. All of my friends know and they love and accept me. However, if my Master chooses to end his friendships with people or not explain our relationship there's not much I can do. I was a little scared by the post that mentioned being cut off from all former ties.




onestandingstill -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:15:50 PM)

I too participated in the thread.
What I stated is if indeed they are her Master's friends it's his choice as to how to handle it and not hers.
I also think it was wise to tell them the behavior was consensual.
I told her I would recommend them discussing their alternate lifestyle with those in their vanilla life who have great concern.
I also said maybe they were telling her how bad she was being treated in hopes they's be able to pick up the pieces.
devilslittlesister posted indeed this behavior of pretending to protect her only to swoop in after the 1st relatioship was over.
We don't know the group of her Master's friends intentions so to look at it from many perspectives is offering things to consider, not condeming them IMO.
I agree the SUBS friends that are HER support group should be able to be kept and maintained, but when it's HIS friends it makes me wonder how good a friend they are to not point out to him their concern for his behavior and only to point it out to her.
suzanne




MasterBKM -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:21:41 PM)

agrees with Mistress again ... sees that We will get along nicely and chuckles




sub4hire -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:22:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

However I really think that a sub should be encouraged to keep a support system in case the relationship does go bad. Then she has someone to call if she's out on the streets without funds or a roof over her head. Or the dom gets hit by a car and she still winds up on the street she has no legal rights.

Do others also believe that a sub should not lose their support system or am I alone here?


I feel anyone and everyone whether lifestyle based or vanilla based should keep a support system in case things go bad.  We all need people to lean on in times of need in our lives.
I read that abuse thread this morning.  In reading the original question I felt the dom raised some serious red flags.  After all it is his friends, not hers telling her things may be going wrong.  Is he that bad of a person?  I'd heed their warnings and seriously look at the relationship.
Then after reading peoples responses it seemed to had gotten so off track of what she had originally asked...I figured why bother?
We all need people and isolating anyone from us is just bad news.




MasterBKM -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:23:49 PM)

very well said miss




onestandingstill -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:23:59 PM)

FYI I was a BIG Church lady prude before I found kink 2/24/05.
Once I found this avenue was one I was a part of I told ALL my friends and eventually when asked about the big change in my attire and behavior even business associates.
I found not one person who was my friend ended our friendship or thought I'd gone insane.
Most all don't understand my desire or attraction to S&M, but agree we disagree and are happy for me because they see how fulfilled I am these days.
Even though my first D/s relationship was emotionally abusive for more than half of the 1-1/2 years never did they think it was wrong for me to keep living in my chosen lifestyle.
I again say if they are real friends they don't have to like it themselves, but to not still be your friend over something you don't involve them in or push down their throat would just show me they were not real friends to start with.
I just don't get the whole statement of this is who I am, but I'm so fearful of others knowing who I am I'm ashamed to come out of the closet.
I think many who are in the closet are only their due to their own fears, and on top of that they sell their real friends short.
Many of my friends now do NOT view BDSM as sick or abusive due to my disclosure.
If you want acceptance you have to accept yourself first IMO.
suzanne




Lashra -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:56:25 PM)

I believe that a Dominant that is secure in themselves and in their good treatment of their sub should have no problem with a submissive having a support system. We all need a support system, yes even us Doms.

The only logical reason I can think of to do this perhaps is to guide a submissive to stay clear of persons who could be of questionable character. But I would not tell my submissive you have to give up everyone in your life but me. To me that screams insecurity.

Yes isolation is a big factor in abuse so a submissive should see a big red flag if a Dom tells them to drop their support system.

~Lashra




daddysprop247 -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 1:58:20 PM)

like almost everything else, the answer to this one is, "it depends." i do not believe that it should be mandatory that a submissive or slave in a D/s relationship should maintain some sort of support system...this is not something that everyone needs, and it is also not something which is healthy or best for every D/s union. in the other thread, i mentioned that my Master had me cut off all ties with my former friends when i became his, however it was not because they simply "expressed worry", but because they were extremely disrespectful of my Master and of the new relationship, refusing to even try to understand our beliefs and ways. He did not want such people in my life, and neither did i, tho i was of course very saddened initially that people i had always felt were such good friends could be so ignorant and unaccepting.

obviously if we're talking about a M/s union, then what the Master wills goes...if for whatever reason he feels that certain people should be cut out of his property's life, well then that is his right. tho many view it as a sign of "abuse", often a Master has very sound reasons for making such a decision. people who refuse to understand or even accept a lifestyle radically different from what they know and feel is right, who will disrespect the Master, and feed the slave all sorts of poison (such as "you deserve better" or "leave him now!"), can be detrimental to the relationship. also, once you are owned, your Master (usually) becomes your first priority, not your old friends.

it is not as if new friends cannot be made, friends who will be understanding of your lifestyle and respectful of your relationship, and who meet your Dom/Master's approval.





Wildfleurs -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 2:03:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

In the abuse thread the op said that her dom's immediate response is to cut these people out of her life. Another poster said that anyone who expressed worry for her choices was immediately cut out of her life. An acquaintance I've been talking to said that her new dom has ordered her not to tell anyone about their relationship and especially not to get feedback from her longterm therapist.

I view all of these as unhealthy in the extreme. One should be able to explain to friends that your relationship is making you happy. Indeed I think if it really is, then your happiness should be apparent to them. Bruises will of course make the suspicion of abuse come up but this can be answered easily by saying the sex got rough but you'll heal. If you treat it as no big deal, then neither will they.

However I really think that a sub should be encouraged to keep a support system in case the relationship does go bad. Then she has someone to call if she's out on the streets without funds or a roof over her head. Or the dom gets hit by a car and she still winds up on the street she has no legal rights.

Do others also believe that a sub should not lose their support system or am I alone here?


I think it really does depend - if the submissives support system is toxic and just pulling them down then I think its fine for the dominant to pull the plug (so to speak).  Personally I have a very close knit (and healthy) family that is important to me, so I'm owned by someone who gets along with and values my family.  Its something that I always appreciate though.

C~




toservez -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 4:51:37 PM)

I am in the depends group. I do not think you can have a gross generalization on this.

Cutting off a support system in general is a big red flag to me as a sign of an insecure dominant, but I can also see several reasons for it. What is the friend or family member is a toxic person for the relationship and will only stop if the relationship ends, the submissive might have boundary issues and have trouble knowing what is healthy to keep private and what is not are two off the top of my head.

I believe most dominants prefer submissives that are mentally healthy. These people tend to have friends and family. To me it would be about the degree. If one is not going to be open minded and cause problems I can see cutting them off. If people are getting cut off at the slightest reason, a red flag of insecurity might be at the root. I think witholding information from a therapist is probably the latter.




Celeste43 -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 5:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressYlwa

quote:

An acquaintance I've been talking to said that her new dom has ordered her not to tell anyone about their relationship and especially not to get feedback from her longterm therapist.

 
I do not make my private life public. My boys are not to tell their "vanilla" friends or family about what we do at home. As a therapist, I know that most do not approve or support our lifestyle. For him to ask her to keep this private is not to keep her from support, but to protect themselves. If he had told her to not see her therapist, I might have concerns. It doesn't look like he is cutting her off from anyone. Just keeping their lifestyle private.
 
Mistress Ylwa


If a patient was to not talk about her relationship, even though she was having problems in that relationship, don't you as a therapist think that this lessens the value of the therapy. She comes to talk to you because she makes bad choices in relationship, now she's suddenly in a new relationships and she's got concerns but she can't talk to you because he said so. How much good will the therapy do her in this case? Talking about relationship issues is different than talking about sexual aspects and she was ordered not to discuss anything including his existence to her therapist.

I live in a rural town, my therapist specializes in special needs kids, she treats mine and me as an adjunct. I had no problem mentioning that I had entered into a D/s relationship. I don't discuss being tied up and spanked anymore than I discuss what spicy food I ate. I don't think it's important to the therapy.

But my ability to choose a good guy who can be a good male role model for my ill offspring is important. And that means she hears about problems in the relationship and how we solve them. And she's met him. She doesn't disapprove because she can see how much happier I am and how much more stable my offspring is with him in the picture.

She doesn't have her own agenda to pursue. If someone is in therapy with a therapist whose own problems effected their ability to do a good job, then the client has the responsibility to call the therapist on it and to look for someone else who is capable of providing therapy. Including interviewing prospective therapists with a list of questions including how knowledgable they are in alternative sexuality and how many patients involved in D/s they have had.




aSlavesLife -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 6:41:44 PM)

It is remarkable that you can seldom get 3 people here to agree on a definition, but 99% will agree on universal ways of telling others how to run their lives.

My slave was initially isolated for conditioning and training. It is next to impossible to ingrain some forms of conditioning while being bombarded with outside influences. People that have no desire for M/s might view this as a ' red flag ' of pending abuse. Others with more open minds would probably be more inclined to see it for nothing more than the practicality that it really is.

L gave up most of her contacts prior to coming to me. Others I deny her because they offer nothing but negative influences that I find non conducive to her training and life. She spoke with her mother on 3 separate occasions. After the 3rd time of having to listen to her sob in frustration while her mother screamed obscenities at her over the phone, I took the phone away from her, hung up on her mother, and had my phone number changed. This was done to protect her, not to abuse her. L has not had any contact with the rest of her family in several years, and this choice was hers alone as I did not even know her at that time.

In regard to friends, L maintains contact with 2 vanilla friends as well as several that are involved in one degree or another in BDSM. She speaks to them through e-mail as well as by telephone. I will not name names, but several of them post on the forums fairly regularly. One of these dear people expressed her concern over what she feared was abuse. Instead of forbidding L further contact with her, I explained in some detail how what she thought was abuse was misunderstanding of something I had written.

I have blocked 3 people that refused to listen to reason. They were so opinionated and convinced that theirs was the only ' right ' way to do things that no amount of explanation would suffice. While L is under my collar, which by the way will be the rest of my or her life, she will not be allowed to maintain communication with people that wish to tell her how horrible her lifestyle choice is, how much potential for abuse is in it, how she needs psychiatric help, or any other negative ranting from people that are willingly ignorant of M/s. Both L and myself have stressed many times that M/s is not BDSM or D/s, and that it appeals to only a tiny minority. Neither of us claim that it is better than anyone else's  way of living, but it is our choice, and it is right for us.

Were a vanilla husband to bend his vanilla wife over her knee and spank her for back talking him, he would most likely land in jail. Yet in BDSM few people would think twice about it. But most of you seem willing, even eager, to draw a line in the sand, then vainly pound your chests proclaiming anything over that line to be abuse. I think that you should start drawing lines only after you are able to write a BDSM dictionary for newbies, so they won't be so confused because of 20 different definitions of a single word. Because if you can't communicate the meaning of a single word, you sure as hell can't communicate the meaning of what constitutes abuse in BDSM.




MaryT -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 6:51:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

It is remarkable that you can seldom get 3 people here to agree on a definition, but 99% will agree on universal ways of telling others how to run their lives.

My slave was initially isolated for conditioning and training. It is next to impossible to ingrain some forms of conditioning while being bombarded with outside influences. People that have no desire for M/s might view this as a ' red flag ' of pending abuse. Others with more open minds would probably be more inclined to see it for nothing more than the practicality that it really is.


And I would see someone who insisted I cut off contact with my adult children or my elderly parents as *so* far out of my life that his head would spin from the speed at which I'd show him the door. 

I'm such a bad submissive ... I really should give it up.

Seriously though, I think it is red flag 1) if one is asked to give up every personal relationship; 2) if one is willing to give up every personal relationship ... or doesn't have any personal relationships to give up.

MaryT




aSlavesLife -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 7:07:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife

It is remarkable that you can seldom get 3 people here to agree on a definition, but 99% will agree on universal ways of telling others how to run their lives.

My slave was initially isolated for conditioning and training. It is next to impossible to ingrain some forms of conditioning while being bombarded with outside influences. People that have no desire for M/s might view this as a ' red flag ' of pending abuse. Others with more open minds would probably be more inclined to see it for nothing more than the practicality that it really is.


And I would see someone who insisted I cut off contact with my adult children or my elderly parents as *so* far out of my life that his head would spin from the speed at which I'd show him the door. 

I'm such a bad submissive ... I really should give it up.

Seriously though, I think it is red flag 1) if one is asked to give up every personal relationship; 2) if one is willing to give up every personal relationship ... or doesn't have any personal relationships to give up.

MaryT



L has no children. I wouldn't have taken her otherwise. But hey, if you think that staying in contact with a mother that refuses to ask how you are, but wants to scream at you while telling you how much shame you are bringing to the family..... so be it. Personally, that screams of abuse to me. Gosh, I guess that we are at an impasse concerning what is abuse once again. Imagine that!




MaryT -> RE: Being separated from a support system (1/22/2007 7:20:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife
L has no children. I wouldn't have taken her otherwise. But hey, if you think that staying in contact with a mother that refuses to ask how you are, but wants to scream at you while telling you how much shame you are bringing to the family..... so be it. Personally, that screams of abuse to me. Gosh, I guess that we are at an impasse concerning what is abuse once again. Imagine that!


I wasn't talking about you ... re-read.  The funny thing about support systems is that the support goes both ways.   I don't abandon loved ones for bliss or on command.

MaryT




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