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RE: True - 1/24/2007 8:25:15 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maddie57

Shouldn't that have read Cyndi Lauper - I am sure it was her, not Phil Collins


i think they both did that song and i'm totally unsure who wrote it originally, i got my info from lyricsfreak.com  i must not be a "true" pop-music expert *winks*


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Profile   Post #: 21
Truth - 1/24/2007 8:36:10 AM   
amayos


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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHXB

There [are] people who post about a "true slave or "true master". There is no true master or slave out there. There is no one side of the bdsm lifestyle. We all here live it in different ways. Those rules are made up by the people in that bdsm relationship.

Your thoughts.



While statements like the above will inevitably get the collective BDSM stamp of approval, I will never agree—even if I may readily concede that "true" is a word often abused by people in general within and beyond this sub culture. My contention does not derive from the voluptuous arrogance of believing my personal "style" and taste supercedes those of others, but a strong conviction there are in fact reasonably simple standards by which to measure a Master or slave, or terms like submissive or dominant, husband or wife, or even jello. I don't think those standards are spoken of enough, due to this apparent religion of being so open-minded our common sense falls out in the process.

(in reply to MasterHXB)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: True - 1/24/2007 8:45:34 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

Sure, we can debate 'true' (or not) all day.  The consensus seems to be that 'true' does not exist.

Fine.

But there is (or MUST be) better and 'not' better.  There is quality to consider.

i think there's a 'better' or 'not better' depending on what one is looking for.  A dom may feel a sub with a lot of experience is better for him....however, that does not mean she is 'better' for a different dom as well....nor does that make her a better sub....except for him.  And that is the point.  Slave A may be a better match for Master A than Master B (for whatever reasons).  That doesn't make one a better slave/Master in itself...just different.  So who actually defines what's 'better' other than the ones involved?
 
Take a submissive, for example.  He/she has spent many years working with one or more Dom(me)/Master/Mistress to become what they are.  Now they are 'without', but want to become a sub/slave to another.  That person cannot randomly select their new partner.  They must find someone at or above their 'skill' level to bring out the best they can be and/or have been.

The same need not be true of dominants, because they might take pleasure in always working with newbies.  Conversely, they might want experience.  It can go either way.

Right.  So which is the 'better'?
 
DG



(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: True - 1/24/2007 8:50:38 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl


Because everybody needs somebody................



................to look down on?.........lol


agirl





Now that is "true"! lol

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Truth - 1/24/2007 8:59:15 AM   
Lorelei115


Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline 		*Nods* I have to agree with amayos. It would be so much easier to communicate in the lifestyle without misunderstandings if we could all agree on what the definitions were. At best we all seem to have a shaky grasp on what others tend to call themselves, such as "submissive", "top", "slave", and "dominant". As its been pointed out many many times elsewhere, a lot of people tend to simply give themselve a title without matching their definition of that title with that of the rest of the community. As a result, one word can have so many personal meanings that its impossible to tell what someone means when they say "I am a Master/Mistress" without going into a five point questionairre about what exactly it is they practice. Of course I support people's right to call themselves whatever they wish, for whatever reason, I just think it would be easier to communicate if we could all agree.

As for "true". I think I have to agree that people tend to get up in arms about this word a lot. When you apply the label "true" to someone, it seems to give the impression that you are labelling everyone else as "untrue", even if this isn't actually the case. God I love language but it frustrates me so much sometimes too! The possibilities for miscommunication run so high, because people always color what they hear/read with their own perceptions. As much as that is wonderful and can provide learning experiences, it can also be frustrating when your words get misinterperated.

And thats the truth.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Truth - 1/24/2007 9:12:26 AM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps you hit the nail on the head there, miscommunication gets in the way so let us decide for ourselves who we feel is 'dominant' or 'submissive' in our own eyes. Humans will never all agree on a definition and thats the beauty of BDSM/Fetish in that it is everchanging and ever evolving. It should be easy to say to someone 'ok you say you are a true slave but I simply choose not to practice with you'. People who 'read a book' on the desire of fetish and get all the terminology 'correct' are the ones who feel they are authoritative on the subject and they do this so they may engineer their way into something for example: 'hey im a Mistress, i got all the gear and i can be a bitch ask my mates! this means you have to do everything I say ..right' WRONG. Unfortunately as fetishes become more seen in the media everyone decides to have a go and make a business out of it, up to them you can't stop it but you can find a good group of friends who enjoy the life this makes it harder for charlatans to associate themselves.     

(in reply to Lorelei115)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Truth - 1/24/2007 9:31:52 AM   
badlilthang


Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		when i hear true Dom or true slave...or anything else true, for that matter..i always think of someone true to themselves..and their beliefs...s..

Not rank or worth or level..just true to who and what they naturally are..s..



(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: True - 1/24/2007 9:43:10 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		From your lips to the idiots' ears (I doubt they'll hear you).  


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(in reply to MasterHXB)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: True - 1/24/2007 10:10:48 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aubre

The whole "true" thing I think emerged as a way (in a semi-polite backhanded insult kind of way) for people to call other people poseurs so they can feel better about themselves and choices that they have made, ironcally, not really telling the truth.
'
Example:

"I like you a lot, but I like this other person more , and I choose them because they are a true (master/sub) and you are just not as (masterful/submissive) as they are." The next week, they are telling this to the person they chose the first time.


"This is my wave, Baby, dont cut me off.
Coming down left, eat the rocks."
The Surf Punks, "My Wave"
 
Not sure what that has to do with the thread in question, but when I was a stoned surf punk myself we used to refer to lots of different people as poseurs.

In my own personal opinion, it is easier for people to label and denigrate people who are different than they are, than it is for them to accept other people for who those other people are.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Aubre)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: True - 1/24/2007 12:46:30 PM   
maddie57


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		You could well be right that both sang it but it was originally written by the songwriting team of Billy Steinberg and Tom Kelly for Cyndi Lauper - from an equal non true pop music expert, just someone who used to like that particular track by her.  A bit of information gained by both of us.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: True - 1/24/2007 1:44:19 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: maddie57

You could well be right that both sang it but it was originally written by the songwriting team of Billy Steinberg and Tom Kelly for Cyndi Lauper - from an equal non true pop music expert, just someone who used to like that particular track by her.  A bit of information gained by both of us.


Cyndi Lauper sang "My Wave?"

I thought she was about 10 years later than the Surf Punks, and was not aware she surfed.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to maddie57)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: True - 1/24/2007 9:01:18 PM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		My concept of a True or Real Dom is one who matches as close to the ideal of what I want in a Master. And that concept is formed from a mixture of Doms on this site.  A little of this Dom a little of that one.  Hummm lets try some from Knights of Mists, a little of Archer, some of Desert Lake, take the good parts of each one mix them all up and I might just have a really great Master.  I just have to hope he really exists.

Of course this is not real truth either as this is a fairy tale Dom.  So again the true Dom does not exist damn.

Patina   

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a diamond in the rough

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Truth - 1/24/2007 9:08:17 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorelei115
When you apply the label "true" to someone, it seems to give the impression that you are labelling everyone else as "untrue", even if this isn't actually the case.


And that's the meat if it all right there.  But if I say I think you're pretty, does that mean I think everyone else is ugly?  If I say I like a particular car, does that mean I don't like any other car?  If I say I love Luigi's because they make true, authentic Italian food, does that mean they're the only ones who make true, authentic Italian food? Why such extreme opposites?   I have never seen so many adults get so silly about a word, and it's not that I'm this huge advocate of its use or anything...I just don't get the uproar.

(in reply to Lorelei115)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: True - 1/25/2007 12:14:50 AM   
loulou74


Posts: 12
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Never heard of that track and she was around in the 80's, True Colors being released around 1986 - she may well have surfed, who knows lol

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: True - 1/25/2007 12:20:31 AM   
maddie57


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		She was part of the New Wave era and I dont know all her music though she has been around a while - True Colors was just a favourite.


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: True - 1/25/2007 5:02:11 AM   
bearincuffs


Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Depending on the extent of how "true to yourself" one is, gives validity to that statement. Granted there is no set standard to being a "true slave" or a "true Master" Each individusal who defines thenself as as being a "true slave or Master" is only basing that upon their own life experiences, in my opinion.

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An it harm none, do as thou wilt
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An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
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(in reply to MasterHXB)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: True - 1/25/2007 5:53:53 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHXB

There people who post about a "true slave or "true master". There is no true master or slave out there. There is no one side of the bdsm lifestyle. We all here live it in different ways. Those rules are made up by the people in that bdsm relationship.

Your thoughts.


I do not know for sure exactly why it is that some people have to measure the trueness (or the lack thereof) when it comes to what another person or couple is. I find it amusing that some define their identity based upon what others do, but it really has no impact on my life to be honest with you. When I read "true" in the context of the OP I think of people that have to label, define, and measure themselves because of a lack in them, it is not about the rest of us in my opinion.

Now we all have ideas about what our relationship should look like, and the more we concentrate on that instead of what others are doing, the better off we are in my opinion. 

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: True - 1/25/2007 7:59:54 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not know for sure exactly why it is that some people have to measure the trueness (or the lack thereof) when it comes to what another person or couple is. I find it amusing that some define their identity based upon what others do, but it really has no impact on my life to be honest with you. When I read "true" in the context of the OP I think of people that have to label, define, and measure themselves because of a lack in them, it is not about the rest of us in my opinion.

Now we all have ideas about what our relationship should look like, and the more we concentrate on that instead of what others are doing, the better off we are in my opinion. 


For argument's sake, I read the part I bolded and think the same applies - that those who are so offended by the word are offended because it resonates a lack in them, and a need for them to define it.  Why be so offended if you (generically speaking) feel that someone using "true" measures you, when you have no need to measure?  Why be offended if you do not base your identity on what others do and how they measure?  Why be so offended if you are so confident in yourself and don't feel lacking, simply because you think someone is pointing out (by somehow implying you are "untrue") that you are lacking?

Something to think about, no?  If I'm confident in who I am, what do I care if someone else thinks I am ugly, fat, bitchy, mean, worthless, not a "real" slave, etc.?  I see all these posts from people who insist they don't care what others think of them, because they are confident in who they are....but damn if someone says the "true" word, that all goes to hell, lol.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: True - 1/25/2007 11:32:42 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Rather like so many of the world problems based upon religion, style of government or the one, best, true way of wiping your arse isn't it?

We assume, wrongly, that our way, the way that we have learned, that we assume works best for us is, the only way. The right way. It is human nature I think, to be afraid of what we do not know and therefor understand. God forbid we leave our happy little comfort zone.

I think that most conflict between human kind arise from this very inability to accept that our way is not the only right way, that it is only, our way.......at least for the moment. Until we begin to open up to the possibility that others can also be correct, in their own context and that perhaps we can also learn from them, and maybe juuuuuuuuuuust maybe change our own way a little bit......we are doomed. Doomed to continue the same silly arguments that sometimes even lead to horrible wars.

Yeah, maybe I am over dramatic and goofy but it's my own little vision of all those really assine words and phrases like "true" "best" "right way" "only way" and so on and so forth. I read/hear them and I just cringe. It would be so much easier if we just added a few extra words on the end like "for me". Oh and the really cool people would also add "but I would like to hear what you have to say" and actually listen with an open mind. Who knows, we might all learn something.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 39
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