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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

What I got out of your post was that this girl believes that sex or play requires significant emotional attachment between the two (or more) people involved.  That she would like to not have this belief so that she can participate in more casual play or sex without the negative emotions afterwards.  Is that accurate?

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ORIGINAL: SusanofO
I almost never tell anyone this, though (which is kinda interesting, now that I think about it). Why? I am afraid they will think I am a "Slut".

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I agree with both of you  and to MFM to a certain extent about the attractive factor. But I could drop a dozen profiles here on cm where subs are question if their standards are too high and they would run the range from "way hot" to "dumpy shulb".

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But my point is many women, regardless of how others may see them, are unsatisfied with their looks. But I have seen this following scenario several times;
A group of women connect, they are all single, all looking, to varying degrees less than attractive, some more, some less. They form their own clique, bitch wine and moan until one day one of them says... fuck it! I am going to have some fun for my own sake and then boom! She gets labeled as a "bitch whore cunt scene stealer"
And if she plays with a Dom/Top that one of the clique's members fantasized about or lusted after (but would never ask to play with because she knew he was not going to go LTR with her) it gets even more vicious.

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ORIGINAL: Quivver
I really have only skimmed all the replies, but I dont think I saw what I"m about to add.  You've read profiles of submissive women.  I've read profiles and chatted with Dominant Men, many still say that they want the more naive women.  Which means to me that they still judge by the old standards of not wanting the goods to be too used.  ............. I am just taking on the other side of the coin. 

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

What fears does she want to get over exactly?

She doesn't want to get into public scenes unless she's in a committed relationship with someone she really trusts and is secure with.

Exactly why does she think that's a bad way to go about life?

"quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

What I got out of your post was that this girl believes that sex or play requires significant emotional attachment between the two (or more) people involved.  That she would like to not have this belief so that she can participate in more casual play or sex without the negative emotions afterwards.  Is that accurate?

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ORIGINAL: Noah

What I can't figure out is why you, or your friend, don't instantly turn on your heel and permanently walk away at the first whiff of the possibility of this, unless associating with people like these fulfills some kind of bizarre need for masochistic humiliation play in you.

Would any woman worth a second glance associate with women like these? I'd be very comfortable in assuming, no. Would any guys you'd let buy you a drink socialize with women like these? Same answer.

There are some very cool people around. I mean impressive, formidable, inspiring, stalwart, and very fun people. Absolutely none of them--not a single blessed one--is spending valuable social time with the idiots you describe.

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

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ORIGINAL: Quivver
I really have only skimmed all the replies, but I dont think I saw what I"m about to add.  You've read profiles of submissive women.  I've read profiles and chatted with Dominant Men, many still say that they want the more naive women.  Which means to me that they still judge by the old standards of not wanting the goods to be too used.  ............. I am just taking on the other side of the coin. 

Well, personally my tastes are for woman past the age of 30, even 35. I even put it in my profile "I like strong, smart, submissive women, over 30, who know how, where,  when to and when not to play."

And I think I might add, why to that list.

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ORIGINAL: HatesParisHilton

Maybe your friend should speak to some ex mormon chicks.  they break out and then, well, it's kinda "no holds barred".

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ORIGINAL: Quivver

I wasnt refering to some magic age when I spoke of naive.... 

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ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind
I conquer!! 

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ORIGINAL: julietsierra

I guess I have a different viewpoint than what's been expressed so far.

You see, boyfriend or Master or the Great Houdinin, who cares what he's called. If someone wants a significant relationship with the person they're playing with, I don't really understand this drive to call that  low self-esteem or insecurity or anything else. All it is, is wanting a significant relationship with the person they're playing with. To get that exacts a cost. In your friend's situation, that cost includes recordings and phone sex and whatever it takes to get through the night. It doesn't mean a lack of sexuality or a inhibition of exploring that sexuality to the fullest. It just means that she's picky over who she explores with. And frankly, I don't think that's a bad thing.

I've certainly felt that at many times in my single life. Sometimes I feel it now when he's been busy and I'm feeling antsy - I mean, just how simple could it be to just go get someone to deal with the horniness and let the chips fall where they may? But that's not me - even when I wish it could be, and if I did that, not only would I be jeopardizing the relationship I do have, but I'd also be jeopardizing my view of myself, and really, getting fucked is nice, but it's not that nice. To me, it's simply not worth, nor has it ever been worth the cost. What IS worth the cost though is being in a relationship and knowing that no matter what, I'd holding up my end of it - even when I get frustrated. And the same holds true for me now. The same thing held true for me when I was single.

If she's holding out for what she wants, then I'd say do she should do what she has to do, but stay true to herself. There IS someone out there and that someone is going to want her exactly the way she is, not the way everyone else hopes she'll become.

I don't really find the backstabbing issues your dominant friend has described - but then, I also have always refused to get involved in the drama that typically accompanies "scene related activities."  On top of that, I found it not just a little humorous that the person commenting on her inability to just go play around willy nilly with every Tom, Dick and Harry that came down the pike actually has a husband at home, so even when she opts NOT to become involved with people she still has someone that keeps her company, watches movies with her, has common interests, common goals and the opportunity to feel love from someone - which isn't exactly at the beck and call of the people who choose this lifestyle while single. Add modest or being selective to the single lable and what you have is a prescription for loneliness.

Loneliness just does NOT mean anyone has to accept less than what they want though. That's just a fallacy that we THINK is important - and it just isn't.

I was very much like your friend. But instead of berating myself over my selectiveness, I embraced it. And today, I have the person I've always hoped I'd meet. I tried to play with others and while there were some that things worked out really well with, none of it was what I'd hoped it might be. When push came to shove there were definitely things that I was choosing to do with someone in a more committed relationship - not just a casual one-night fling. I've never been sorry for my choices. I'd hope your friend isn't sorry for hers.

juliet

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind
I conquer!! 

*teasing* Well I AM into forceplay, but you really think you can conquer me?

(I think you mean "concur") 

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I was recently talking to a friend who considers herself a submissive. Check that, who hopes one day to become a submissive. She told be that she longs to play more, both in public and in private but doesn't because she is afraid to be hurt emotionally if the Dom/Top isn't going to be her...well...for lack of a better term, boyfriend. That as much as she wants to and gets off by fantasizing about play for play's own sake, jealousy over watching the same Dom/Top play with another submissive or the thought that the Dom/Top will rejected her for anything more than a play partner stops her cold from exploring more. She also told me (she has full knowledge of this posting and will comment anonymously) that she often cries herself to sleep when coming home from parties or after a night flirting on line and masturbating to her fantasies because she knows that but for her fear, she could have easily share these experiences with an actual human being.  case in point, she told me she used to really get off on phone sex with different guys around the country but then would feel totally rejected whenever they would not call back. So she filled her Ipod with sex sounds and uses them but really wishes she could have supeficial phone without the rejection feelings.

As I read though some of the profiles of "single and looking" subs I sense that she is not alone in her pain. That many women fear and some even hate their own sexuality. In discussing this very issue with a Domme friend and a very secure married submissive who openly plays around all the time with her husband's blessing, they both agree that much of the petty backstabbing, catty gossip and distrust within "the scene" comes from women who cannot handle their own sexual kinks and fetishes and strike out against the sub/bottoms and Dom/Tops who can. They also feel that these attitudes keep many away from being more involved in the BDSM D/s M/s T/b community.

The whole subject reminded me of a girl I knew in middle school. She loved kissing for kissing's sake and she made out all the time with lots of guys (and a few girls she told me) throughout middle school and high school. It always hurt her when she would hear about being a whore or a slut, and gossip of who she was "doing" or what teacher she gave a BJ too. (Always of course behind her back) The real truth was she almost never let a guy get second past 2nd base and was a virgin until her junior year in college and married the man she gave that virginity to!

It is a rhetorical question but I will ask it anyway...

Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?