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RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 5:07:47 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Now I guess I didn't read into shiftedjewels post like everyone else did.I took it as a rant in general about loosing freedom.


That's exactly what it was about. Individual rights being chipped away at.

quote:

Being noticed, and dealing with people who have issues dealing with folks of different races will never be over for me; you fortunately do have that option of letting it go and forgetting about it.


So when was the last time you wrote to your congressman about it? Or your Senator? Or any other government representative? You have all the rights that I have to contact them and make your voice heard... so when was the last time you did? Spend a lot of time sending off letters to the Whitehouse? Well I do. I fight constantly for the individual rights, not just for smokers, but for helmet laws, drunk driving laws, abused children, the right for my daughter and everyone like her to be happy and get married and raise a family just like you can or have done. I gave birth three times to mixed kids and I raised them as americans, not as mixed kids. Along with the other ten kids I raised as a single mother. I took in kids off the street and welcomed them to my family, no I DO NOT have the option of letting go and forgetting about it! You took one look at me and assumed that I'm just some white girl with a white family... you are mistaken. My "family" comes in every color in the rainbow and I have fought racism my intire adult life. It's crap like this that is causing the biggest problems we face in this country today. People picking and choosing what they wish to see, hear or believe. It isn't the fact that you disliked the wording of what I said, it's the fact that you chose to pick one sentence and focus on it, it's the fact that our constitution is under attack just as our individual rights are and you and so many others see only what effects them personally. I have no choice but to see the big picture, I have a dear friend who's son is dying from AIDS, I have a gay daughter that wants more then anything to marry the person she loves, I have a son that was killed by a drunk driver and a cousin that was killed by someone high on drugs. I have two daughters that went through counseling because of the man that raped their mother and molested them! I fight for abused women because of the man that beat me to the point that I'm going blind because of him. My only surviving grandchild (yes, I've buried two of them because it took two still born babies for them to finally figure out that my daughter has a rare disorder that causes blood clots to develope during pregnancy) was born with a blood clot on his brain and because of that he will never be able to do what most kids can, so I fight for handicaped kids, not just my own. I support MADD, ABATE, ACLU, ICLU and BACA, to put that in simple english, I financially donate to Mothers against Drunk Driving, American Bikers Aimed Towards Education, American Civil Liberties Union, Indiana Civil Liberties Union and Bikers Against Child Abuse. I attend the rallies and meetings, I make my voice heard. When was the last time you looked a Senator in the eye and told him that you would not stand silently by and allow them to legislate discrimination into OUR constitution? Let me tell you from first hand experience, it feels damn good.

quote:

Having met a black person is not the same as respecting and loving a black person as you love yourself.


Don't assume that I don't respect and love a black person as I do myself, if not more so. Tell that to my black foster daughter and the baby that calls me grandma. Tell that to my black brother in law. Or my cousin or any other members of my family. Don't judge me based on color either.

Jewel


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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Youtalkingtome)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 6:30:03 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I get it... You're a nice person who said something very wrong when you made the comparison as you did... I cannot place you in my skin to explain to you how nonsensical that question was (what is the difference between...)
I was offended by your statement which you did not think through before typing... For the life of me I cannot understand why it is so difficult for you to get why it was a very bad thing to say.

Am I socially active yes, not in writing letters like you; but my siblings do (and I to a lesser extent) a weekly radio show, and 2 community television programs; most involve popular national/international music and culture; but often it is a colaboration of social service workers/other professionals talking about issues we face in the community... We are trying to do the right thing under difficult circumstances.

Trust me when I tell you, Only a white person could make the statement you did, and not see the problem with it. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 8:08:03 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I was offended by your statement which you did not think through before typing


How much easier do you think it would have been to have said that to begin with rather then attacking my intelligence? I DO get it. That's why I sat here last night crying and again today. But do you "get it"... you did judge me.. You assumed that statement came from the "white" in me rather then the fact that maybe sometimes I type faster then I think. I am sincerely sorry that it came across the way it did to you. And maybe I'm being overly sensitive this time, but I honestly feel like you judged me because of my skin color. That, in my own opinion, is racist. I'm not saying this out of anger, I know that the internet is no place to try to convey emotions, but I am hurt. I made a mistake and because of that I made someone feel slighted. A simple question to ask if that was my intention, to ask for clarification, an INTELLIGENT conversation could have happened instead of all this. How's this instead, something you can wrap your mind around. Tell me what the difference is between discrimination against blacks and discrimination against gays? Or women? Or against religious beliefs? Or the Jews in Nazi germany? Or the Christians in ancient Rome? I can tell you one similarity, they are all WRONG! Any laws that take away our right to chose as consenting adults is WRONG. The restaurant owners should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to allow smoking, every adult driver in america should be allowed to decide if they want to wear a seatbelt.

quote:

I resent beiong told what to do like a retard, but I don't resent every law, because there is no mininum IQ/smarts check before one is permitted to reproduce or live in certain places;


Then instead of legislating more laws they need to educate better! Spend more money on schools and less on legislation.

I'm a gun owner, and even if I weren't I would still believe the same thing I do now.. guns don't kill people, ignorance does.

Ignorance puts the drunk behind the wheel, the drugs on the street, the loaded gun in a childs hands. The solution isn't to legislate, it's to educate. It's about my right to chose, to have the capability to make an informed decision, to have at my disposal the opportunity to educate myself about what that decision entails.

You cut every politions salary in half and put it into the schools and clinics and social services and this conversation would have never had to occur. You look past the fact that you are black and I'm not because in the big picture that don't matter a fart in a hail storm cuz' we're in the same boat. After they finish destroying all hope for gay americans who do you think the very vocal Moral Majority is coming after next? Huh?

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 8:41:22 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
quote:

I was offended by your statement which you did not think through before typing

But do you "get it"... you did judge me.. You assumed that statement came from the "white" in me rather then the fact that maybe sometimes I type faster then I think. I am sincerely sorry that it came across the way it did to you. And maybe I'm being overly sensitive this time, but I honestly feel like you judged me because of my skin color. but I am hurt. I made a mistake and because of that I made someone feel slighted. A simple question to ask if that was my intention, to ask for clarification, an INTELLIGENT conversation could have happened instead of all this.

I'm sorry I was harsh with my words. I didn't assume it, the words did come from you, and you are white; I didn't however give you the chance to introduce yourself to me in a way that would let me know you couldn't possibly have meant it, because you know better; I don't believe we can call that discrimination, I do believe it's a misunderstanding, but not an assumption without seed in place... Like I said, a black person would never have said that.

My reaction comes from having had that sore spot bruised before... Long story, perhaps for face to face if that ever happened some day.

quote:

Tell me what the difference is between discrimination against blacks and discrimination against gays? Or women? Or against religious beliefs? Or the Jews in Nazi germany? Or the Christians in ancient Rome? I can tell you one similarity, they are all WRONG!

I agree that they are all wrong; the difference that get's Blacks screwed (not in a good way) than all other groups is that being black is not what we do/how we marry; we cannot hide the fact that we are black when it doesn't suit us to have it front and center; blacks cannot put on a suit and hide their skin color before they get the job; blacks cannot put on a suit and some hair gell, and hide their jewish descent before they get the job or are accepted into the school, or before they are assumed stupid until they can prove over and over again they are VERY competent.

Being black is never an optional behavior. Can't hide being black by sleeping with only other blacks in our bedrooms... How many gays get stopped on their way to delivering a community television programming tape, get stopped, and have 10guns pointing at their heads, that if they move 1", they die (like happened to my brother) because they look like another random gay person?

I hate fighting/having to explain all of the time, but I either let it pass one more time by biting my tongue or speak up and get feared as hostile... I hate being given only 2 extremes: docile or bitch (I've fortunately begun to embrace the bitch within; not because of you, but because I'm going to survive).
Now these explanations are going to get me in trouble with other groups; but it is not the same... I'm very much interested in just treatment of all people, but some burdens are easier to bear than others in a society that considers my skin color a sin and a shame.

quote:

You cut every politions salary in half and put it into the schools and clinics and social services and this conversation would have never had to occur. You look past the fact that you are black and I'm not because in the big picture that don't matter a fart in a hail storm cuz' we're in the same boat. Jewel

I agree that laws are being created to control people and keep the power hungry/greedy where they are.
I vote for a truce, since we are on the same side. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 9:11:09 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I vote for a truce, since we are on the same side. M


I think we are both very strong will and opinionate women and if we ever had the chance to meet face to face we would become fast friends...... and the world would tremble in fear of us.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 10:05:00 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

and the world would tremble in fear of us.


I am already scared of you both.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 10:08:49 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Jewel / BTF

This isn't a post to break the truce by any means. I just want to post an observation as one whose most casual posts and sarcasm are taken as iniquitous insults. As informative and sometimes educational this site is at times, fundamentally it still is an electronic version of a parlor chat between people that have a common interest but uncommon background.

The problem is the medium. Unlike a parlor chat, we can't quickly interject a "wait a minute, what did you mean by that?". We can't see or appreciate the facial and body inflections that indicate sarcasm. We can't tell by tone that the speaker is using a dramatic comparison to make his/her point. When in a social setting usually you give the other person the benefit of explaining. At the very least you assume on the side of giving the person the benefit of a doubt.

But not here! Here, the tendency is to assume the worst. If in an attempt to make a point the person's words can be interpreted as offensive, we assume they are. We assign the worst case scenario and put the offending sentence in the context to support that scenario. Everything else ever expressed by the person is discounted. The post could have been 10 paragraphs right on point, but a one sentence attempt at humor, or a point making extreme comparison, can ignite something as we've witnessed here. The result seems to be that people valued as posters don't post as often or worse they don't post at all.

Maybe in the spirit of this truce, the next time something like this occurs, and it will, we all do what we would do if we were all just sitting around sipping a nice wine while relaxing in a hot tub. Take another sip of wine, and just give the person a chance to express themselves clearer.

Let's assume good intentions. Is it possible?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/13/2005 2:39:13 PM >

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 10:31:30 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe in the spirit of this truce, the next time something like this occurs, and it will, we all do what we would do if we were all just sitting around sipping a nice wine while relaxing in a hot tub. Take another sip of wine, and just give the person a chance to express themselves clearer.

Let's assume good intentions. Is it possible?


Wise words from a wise man.

Thank You

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 11:28:04 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Wise words from a wise man.


Thank you very much Jewel!

Hopefully the seed of an idea will take root.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 2:31:05 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
I think we are both very strong will and opinionate women and if we ever had the chance to meet face to face we would become fast friends...... and the world would tremble in fear of us.Jewel

This Lady agrees, and sends you a hug. Maybe we will meet some day, and I have no doubt we would be friends.
Oh Yeah, tell Scooter I'm sorry, lol... I don't want to be hugging you while Scooter tries to take me down with the ropes, lol... M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 2:35:06 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Jewel / BTF
Maybe in the spirit of this truce, the next time something like this occurs, and it will, we all do what we would do if we were all just sitting around sipping a nice wine while relaxing in a hot tub. Take another sip of wine, and just give the person a chance to express themselves clearer.
Let's assume good intentions. Is it possible?

Wise words indeed... I will try to go slow and try to prevent foot in mouth as much as possible. Some things though your body just reacts to and you almost can't stop yourself... Guess I should seek some drugs (or is that what the wine or Remy (black) would be doing?) for the compulsion. Later, M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 4/13/2005 2:48:10 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 2:43:23 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Oh Yeah, tell Scooter I'm sorry, lol... I don't want to be hugging you while Scooter tries to take me down with the ropes, lol... M



I don't know.......... putting "ropes" and "Scooter" in the same sentence just tends to get him all excited an' stuff. LMAO

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Reptiles of Uncommon Greed - 4/13/2005 2:49:30 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
I don't know.......... putting "ropes" and "Scooter" in the same sentence just tends to get him all excited an' stuff. LMAO. Jewel

Good than it would definitely be fun for all of us, since I still need to learn the ropes. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 33
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