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RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:28:52 PM

Level

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julia is right, fascism has been around South America a long time, but Chavez is a piece of shit.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
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Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 21

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:36:08 PM

audioguy58

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<sigh> I wish they wouldn't have added this stupid "crawl" thing on the main pages, so that I wouldn't have to be subjected to the untutored opinions of the great unwashed masses.

Sincerely,
Kevin

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 22

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:36:58 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

julia is right, fascism has been around South America a long time, but Chavez is a piece of shit.

Anyone that calls Bush an asshole is my kinda guy

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 23

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:37:54 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

To be honest there was no need to explain WR. Every dog has its day and every empire is invincible until it falls. Even America can make too many enemies and it's not losing wars that bring down empires but fighting too many wars, while the competition quietly grows.

Well... right now the enemies of the United States are 3rd world countries like Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Some could argue China is a biggie but that's not going to happen. Maybe a cold war type of thing 50 years from now. But I seriously doubt there will be any kind of shooting war. China is more like a rival than an enemy.

Russia is neutral. All of Europe is allies. Most of South and Central America are allies. Australia, Canada, Japan, and India are allies. So who exactly is going to challange and defeat the United States?

England has a long-standing history of getting into too many wars. Yet they haven't been invaded since the 11th century. Their presence on the world stange just goes up and down through the centuries.

As for Rome, they fell because they physically got too big, became corrupt, and they were unable to secure their borders. They also just had trouble keeping it together culturally. Their own people just sort of lost faith in everything. Rome was not sacked by invading armies, it was barbarians that came in and slowly destroyed the empire inside out. Also keep in mind that Rome didn't completely fall in the 4th century. They split and that second half went on another 1,000 years.

Empires or Superpowers do not stay on top forever. They go up and down. You can even look at Russia today. They fell and now they are on the up again. They arn't ever going away... And neither will Americans.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 24

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:41:54 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

julia is right, fascism has been around South America a long time, but Chavez is a piece of shit.

Anyone that calls Bush an asshole is my kinda guy

*gets out my nukular-powered binoculars to see if I can detect at least a little tongue in cheek*

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 25

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:46:38 PM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

The way that people of the left-wing favor this guy is amazing. It makes me wonder if you support this mad-man's push for absolute power. Because that is exactly what he is doing.

If it were up to me…. Hugo Chavez would be Time Magazines man of the year, for his plight towards a nationalistic state

I’ll just say that I hope all the nation-state's in that region follow Chavez’s lead. And furthmore…. I hope they all disband from subversive treaties such as NAFTA, GAT and CAFTA. They don’t realize it yet….but the way the US immersed itself in this suck-ass globalistic ideology, we NEED them more than they need us.

It will really push the globalists’ back….and hopefully set off our own trend of nationalism here in this country. I’d like to see it one day where the ''new world order types'' no longer garner the power of manipulation over the masses…. And they and their families have to literally run for their lives in a fit of escape from the citizenry here.

I'll end this by saying....remember what Plato said in his ''Republic'' -- '' The best way to defeat an oligarchy is to be patient and study it..... then when you see a split amongst its members....attack it immediately ''

- R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 1/31/2007 4:48:39 PM >

_____________________________

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-General George S. Patton

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 26

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:48:50 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

cyberdude611
A popular figure to the left-wing in America because of his speeches that bash Bush and US policy,

Statements like this,as well as below, are why young little subby boys should be seen and not heard.

quote:

cyberdude611
Since Chavez has been in power he has made friends with every possible enemy of the US including Iran, North Korea, and Syria. Oil has gone from $15 a barrel to over $60.

A blanket statement that Chavez is popular to left-wing would be similiar to me saying that racist views are "popular" to the right wing....

And to suggest that Chavez has had, personally, much of an impact on prices going "from $15 a barrel to over $60"...Just shows a complete lack of understanding.

out.

D.G.

p.s Jesus please protect me from your followers.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 1/31/2007 4:51:58 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 27

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 4:55:12 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

cyberdude611

Since Chavez has been in power he has made friends with every possible enemy of the US including Iran, North Korea, and Syria. Oil has gone from $15 a barrel to over $60.

So exactly how has Chavez (and the US has spent quite a bit of time making enemies with Chavez) caused gas prices to rise?

From what I understand, gas prices have risen because...

1) Saudi Arabia raised the price of crude the moment Monkeyboy invaded Iraq.

2) Monkeyboy blew up all of Iraq's oil production facilities.

3) Hurricane Katrina destroyed a lot of our refineries and east coast ports.

It is important to establish a real cause to effect relationship in a post, not just tie random facts together and hope it makes sense.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 28

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 5:06:57 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

The way that people of the left-wing favor this guy is amazing. It makes me wonder if you support this mad-man's push for absolute power. Because that is exactly what he is doing.

If it were up to me…. Hugo Chavez would be Time Magazines man of the year, for his plight towards a nationalistic state

I’ll just say that I hope all the nation-state's in that region follow Chavez’s lead. And furthmore…. I hope they all disband from subversive treaties such as NAFTA, GAT and CAFTA. They don’t realize it yet….but the way the US immersed itself in this suck-ass globalistic ideology, we NEED them more than they need us.

It will really push the globalists’ back….and hopefully set off our own trend of nationalism here in this country. I’d like to see it one day where the ''new world order types'' no longer garner the power of manipulation over the masses…. And they and their families have to literally run for their lives in a fit of escape from the citizenry here.

This is what human civilization is. When you take down one empire another will simply come in and take its place. It's a power vaccum. If the US and the west arn't controlling the world....China will step right up to the plate. That's just how the world turns.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 29

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 5:18:00 PM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
All of Europe is allies.

Which Europe is this?????????

Out of Interest how many European states have an active, effective and noticable military prescence in lands where americans are being shot? How many European states refuse to assist the US (even passively - remember france have banned over-flights in the past)? How many European states have been kicking their american allies in the teeth for the last few decades?

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 30

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 5:27:58 PM

Solinear

Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

A popular figure to the left-wing in America because of his speeches that bash Bush and US policy, the congress in Venezuela granted president Hugo Chavez power to make laws by decree. And many say he now has the power to change the constitution.

"Long live the sovereign people! Long live President Hugo Chavez! Long live socialism!" said National Assembly President Cilia Flores as she proclaimed the law approved. "Fatherland, socialism or death! We will prevail!"

Supporters say the move will finally allow Chavez to transform the country into socialism. However opponents say that Chavez is transforming the country into a dictatorship. He has full control of the congress, he has stacked the courts with his supporters, and he has taken off the air any media outlet that questions his policies. He recently started to make use of a new law that allows him to sieze private property.

Every page of history will tell you that giving that kind of power to one man is incredibly dangerous. If anyone has read history, you will know that Adolf Hitler came to power because he was voted in, and then the Nazi party gave him absolute power because he promised to transform the nation into a superpower. And he did this under the disguise of socialism.

The way that people of the left-wing favor this guy is amazing. It makes me wonder if you support this mad-man's push for absolute power. Because that is exactly what he is doing.

There's the 1 in a billion chance that he is actually just a guy who wants to do the right thing and most politicians stand in his way of doing the right thing...

Then again, the old phrase "Power corrupts - Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I think that comparing him to Hitler is a bit extreme. I think that comparing him to the fascist dictator in Spain (Franco) is more appropriate though.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 31

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 5:58:01 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Solinear

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

A popular figure to the left-wing in America because of his speeches that bash Bush and US policy, the congress in Venezuela granted president Hugo Chavez power to make laws by decree. And many say he now has the power to change the constitution.

"Long live the sovereign people! Long live President Hugo Chavez! Long live socialism!" said National Assembly President Cilia Flores as she proclaimed the law approved. "Fatherland, socialism or death! We will prevail!"

Supporters say the move will finally allow Chavez to transform the country into socialism. However opponents say that Chavez is transforming the country into a dictatorship. He has full control of the congress, he has stacked the courts with his supporters, and he has taken off the air any media outlet that questions his policies. He recently started to make use of a new law that allows him to sieze private property.

Every page of history will tell you that giving that kind of power to one man is incredibly dangerous. If anyone has read history, you will know that Adolf Hitler came to power because he was voted in, and then the Nazi party gave him absolute power because he promised to transform the nation into a superpower. And he did this under the disguise of socialism.

The way that people of the left-wing favor this guy is amazing. It makes me wonder if you support this mad-man's push for absolute power. Because that is exactly what he is doing.

There's the 1 in a billion chance that he is actually just a guy who wants to do the right thing and most politicians stand in his way of doing the right thing...

Then again, the old phrase "Power corrupts - Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I think that comparing him to Hitler is a bit extreme. I think that comparing him to the fascist dictator in Spain (Franco) is more appropriate though.

I never said he is Hitler. I said that the way he is coming to power is similar to how Hitler came to power. Hitler's 1932 campaign was based almost completely on socialism. And he recieved absolute power because he promised to transform the country into a superpower that the allies will fear.

(in reply to Solinear)

Post #: 32

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 6:05:01 PM

Archer

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Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

I would concure that Chavez is not Fascist but rather closer to being a Communist. Since he is seeking to eliminate coorporate interests in favor of nationalism.
Now that BP et al have invested the means of production he threatens to steal them if they don't submit to a 51% controling interest in the production there.
But fascism not quite, since I have not seen the coorporatism or the anti communism the definition requires.
In fact the reverse is more true anti coorporatism and pro communism seem more accurate.

I'm sure there will be some sanctions eventually as Chavez tries to gather allies and build his power.

(in reply to Solinear)

Post #: 33

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 6:10:44 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Why is anyone contributing to this "cyberdude" nonsense?

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 34

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:21:12 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why is anyone contributing to this "cyberdude" nonsense?

out.

D.G.

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers.

Nonsense? If the United States Congress gave the President absolute power in order to transform this nation into a socailist state, there would be a civil war. The opposition of such a thing would be extreme. Yet everyone is in support of Hugo for taking absolute power in Venezuela. Why? Because he has said a few things against Bush and the evil American empire? Does this mean you would throw your support behind any man that opposes George W. Bush? I assure you that there are many more people out there much worse than Bush. Bush doesn't even rank in the top 100 of the world's worst leaders in history.

And Hitler did run on a socialist platform.... For some reason everyone in here has a problem understanding that. National socialism is what the Nazi party was based on....Not capitalism. Hitler went after the communists and capitalists. He hated both.
"We are socialists! We are the enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
-Adolf Hitler
May 1, 1927

A bit of a history lesson...
In March 1932, a Presidential election was held. There were 4 candidates. Paul von Hindenburg won with 49% of the vote. Hitler recieved 30%. Ernst Thaelmann recieved 13%. and Theodore Duesterberg 6%.
Since no candidate got a majority vote, a run-off was held. In that run off, Hindenburg got 53% and Hitler's total rose to 37%. We will get back to Hitler in a second...
Hindenburg won the election and appointed a man named Franz von Papen as Chancellor. Papen's first move was to dissolve the Reichstag (Congress) and called for new elections. Meanwhile the Nazi party (national socialists) saw this as a ray of hope. So they attempted to create chaos. They held protests, burned government buildings to the ground, and started to spread propaganda. Matial Law was declared because the situation deteriorated so badly. As the new elections drew closer, the Nazis began to become more popular. Hitler started to draw a following and it wasn't long before he was speaking before 10s of thousands of people.
In July 31, 1932...Hitler's National Socialist party won a major victory in the new elections. They won 230 seats in the new Parliament making it by far the most powerful political party in Germany. Hitler then demanded that Hindenburg appoint him as Chancellor and have complete control of the state. Hindenburg did not do it. In November, more elections took place and the Nazis lost some seats but still remained the most powerful party. Hindenburg fired Papen and appointed a General, Kurt von Schleicher. However he could not get approval from the Reichstag. In January 1933, Hindenburg finally gave in and appointed Hitler as Chancellor.

This is how Hitler got into power. How he gained control of the entire country is what is more interesting.
Hitler created enemies through propaganda. He blamed the Reichstag fire on communists claiming they wanted a revolution and were going to take over the country. After the fire he asked the Reichstag to give him absolute power to rid the country of the communists. The Reichstag gave him 4 years of complete control of the country. He suspended civil rights and took over the judiciary. He also suspended the constitution.
In August 1934, Hindenburg died. Hitler eliminated the position of the presidency and made himself Fuehrer. That completed Hitler's rise to power.
But Hitler went back to the Reichstag every 4 years to get his powers renewed. And each time the Reichstag rubber-stamped his requests.

So how is this similar to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Well Chavez has done a great job of creating an enemy....capitalists. He even claimed that the United States ordered a coup against him and that the Americans want to invade. (Creating fear). He now has complete control of the media. So he is able to project his propaganda to the whole population. People that disagree with him are thrown in jails. He has suspended many personal freedoms in that country. And he now just today got a rubber-stamp from the congress to have absolute power to transform the country into a socialist nation. Sure it is only for 18 months...but what is to stop him from going back every 18 months and getting his power renewed? Hitler did the same thing.

I don't trust the man at all. I dont trust any man with the kind of power he has. And I will continue to be critical of the situation. My criticism of him has nothing to do with him being a socialist or that his country has oil. I am against any man that would want that kind of power. Because no good can come from it. History has proved that fact over and over again.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 35

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:27:15 PM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline

Anyone find it ironic that a bunch of Dominant personalities who believe the universe revolves around them debate so intensely about fascism?

Let me throw you a bone here.

A. The universe revolves around me.
2. I made fascism fashionable; everyone else is the "devil"!
III. I am always right.

Loki

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 36

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:32:10 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
All of Europe is allies.

Which Europe is this?????????

Out of Interest how many European states have an active, effective and noticable military prescence in lands where americans are being shot? How many European states refuse to assist the US (even passively - remember france have banned over-flights in the past)? How many European states have been kicking their american allies in the teeth for the last few decades?

I love your posts, sleazy, but this is too much

France attacked Greenpeace!
Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to sleazy)

Post #: 37

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:34:07 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Anyone find it ironic that a bunch of Dominant personalities who believe the universe revolves around them debate so intensely about fascism?

Let me throw you a bone here.

A. The universe revolves around me.
2. I made fascism fashionable; everyone else is the "devil"!
III. I am always right.

Loki

Hey! Some of us submissive sorts like to argue about these things too.. just the universe revolved around my Daddy instead of the rest of ya!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 38

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:36:55 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Anyone find it ironic that a bunch of Dominant personalities who believe the universe revolves around them debate so intensely about fascism?

Let me throw you a bone here.

A. The universe revolves around me.
2. I made fascism fashionable; everyone else is the "devil"!
III. I am always right.

Loki

Hey! Some of us submissive sorts like to argue about these things too.. just the universe revolved around my Daddy instead of the rest of ya!

The world doesnt revolve around me. The world has the lovely curves of an empty swimming pool, and my skaterboard with polyurethane wheels and precision bearings allows me to...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 39

RE: The Birth of Fascism in South America - 1/31/2007 7:37:18 PM

sleazy

Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
All of Europe is allies.

Which Europe is this?????????

Out of Interest how many European states have an active, effective and noticable military prescence in lands where americans are being shot? How many European states refuse to assist the US (even passively - remember france have banned over-flights in the past)? How many European states have been kicking their american allies in the teeth for the last few decades?

I love your posts, sleazy, but this is too much

France attacked Greenpeace!
Sinergy

Sorry, missing what that has to do with Franco/US relationships, unless you are implying the french took out rainbow warrior at the behest of the US?

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 40

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