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latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:04:27 PM   
Lordandmaster


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_sc/france_climate_change

But it's all just a lot of bullshit concocted by scientists in need of material for their research grants...
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RE: latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:23:41 PM   
meatcleaver


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There are people who won't believe global warming even if the sea is up to their arse and it s 50 centigrade in the shade. It will still be a liberal conspiracy.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:28:23 PM   
Rule


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Perhaps global warming does occur. I remember harsh fun winters in the sixties. This winter I have not seen any snow yet.
 
In about twenty years we will know for sure.
 
I doubt that it is man-caused. Global temperatures have varied long before mankind existed.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:33:08 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I doubt that it is man-caused. Global temperatures have varied long before mankind existed.


Do you work for Exxon?

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2004397,00.html

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:40:39 PM   
Termyn8or


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While I didn't read the entire thing, I did read a good piece of it. I tend to agree. Everything we do makes heat. Even when we air condition a room by pumping the heat out by refridgeration, we are creating heat. One might argue that once the AC is off an equilibrium is reached, which is true. But the refrigeration unit running made heat as well.

I agree that we cannot fix this. First of all we require heat to live in places where it gets cold. Winter or summer it still contributes to the overall heat in the biosphere. Ergo, WE are the problem inherently. It is not necessarily our technology or our SUVs, it is us. Us ourselves.

The things we need require us to make heat using today's technology.You can't expect a person to heat their home without making heat. Evan a heat pump can't, because just by it's running will produce heat.

You know it would be nice if it did not. If every BTU Man emitted was retrieved, and when it gets cold outside we literally pump heat, and actually cool the outside to heat our houses, we would be negating our effect on the ecosystem. Of course there is the other school of thought that says we are in a finite existence, that is as a species we have a life cycle. If this is so, we are probably about ready.

It is an interesting thought to mix that theory with one I have accepted as possible.

The one about the Earth's crust shifting, explaining many things. Now take this into consideration, global warming will at the very least delay that. Perhaps it was every 15,000 years before, but not any more. It would be alot longer.

To what degree there is blame to place, or on what technology is beyond me right now. We are an integral part of this environment, and as such have changed it as much as the grass (potecting the soil) the redwoods (same thing).

This is RIGHT NOW, so don't get nuts about it. Are we meant to do this ? We caused global warming, but we never had any choice. It's not just the superhighways, people have been building fires for a long time.

But are we part of the plan, that the polar ice does not get to sufficient mass to shift the crust again ?

So for the cost of a few countries worth of land (Holland comes to mind) we get a stable crust and our compasses still work. Is that an equitable trade, and do we want to make that trade. And if we don't, what do we do ? Freeze to death ?

Yes, we make heat, but what else can we do ?

T

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/1/2007 11:41:29 PM   
slavejali


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Let's face it, we as a human race have overstayed our welcome on this planet. No wonder they are trying to colonize Mars or the Moon or some other outerspace place  heh

< Message edited by slavejali -- 2/1/2007 11:42:00 PM >


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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 12:07:25 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
The one about the Earth's crust shifting, explaining many things. Now take this into consideration, global warming will at the very least delay that. Perhaps it was every 15,000 years before, but not any more. It would be alot longer.

It may have shifted, but not because of polar ice, T. It is a charming hypothesis, but that is all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
This is RIGHT NOW, so don't get nuts about it. Are we meant to do this ? We caused global warming, but we never had any choice. It's not just the superhighways, people have been building fires for a long time.

It is not proven that we cause global warming. In fact, clouds form because of algae from the oceans that ascend into the heavens. Algae are eaten by  fish. We empty the oceans of fish and cause algae blooms with our pollution, so arguably we ought to cause more cloud cover and thereby reduce the temperature of the Earth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
So for the cost of a few countries worth of land (Holland comes to mind) we get a stable crust and our compasses still work. Is that an equitable trade, and do we want to make that trade.

Holland is already drowning because we have expelled so much water from our soil that it has been sinking rapidly during the past centuries. Some architects are now designing floating houses.
No, it is not just Holland. Most people live on the rims of the oceans and seas and all of them will suffer the consequences when the oceans warm up and rise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
And if we don't, what do we do? Freeze to death?

We wintered the little ice age a few centuries back. I guess that we can endure some warm weather as well.


< Message edited by Rule -- 2/2/2007 12:09:18 AM >

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 12:25:56 AM   
CalliopePurple


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Earth warms, Earth cools, Earth's magnetic field goes crazy, and we humans can't do a damn thing about it or make much of an impact in it. We've been around for just a few millions years, industrialized for just a few centuries, and we think our actions are altering the climate of a planet that's endured a hell of a lot worse in her six billion year history? I think catastrophic volcanic explosions, meteor impacts, continents tearing away from each other, plate-cracking earthquakes, and other natural phenomena.

I hand to you all Michael Crichton's novel State of Fear. It is why I don't believe in global warming and why I trust the media less than I did before. And I won't say more in this subject because this is merely my opinion. I may be right, I may be wrong. Only time will tell. And I trust time more than I trust scientists.


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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 1:35:04 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

Earth warms, Earth cools, Earth's magnetic field goes crazy, and we humans can't do a damn thing about it or make much of an impact in it. We've been around for just a few millions years, industrialized for just a few centuries, and we think our actions are altering the climate of a planet that's endured a hell of a lot worse in her six billion year history? I think catastrophic volcanic explosions, meteor impacts, continents tearing away from each other, plate-cracking earthquakes, and other natural phenomena.

I hand to you all Michael Crichton's novel State of Fear. It is why I don't believe in global warming and why I trust the media less than I did before. And I won't say more in this subject because this is merely my opinion. I may be right, I may be wrong. Only time will tell. And I trust time more than I trust scientists.



The human race won't destroy the planet, it's not capable of that but it can and does destroy its own habitat. Civilisations come and go and civilisations have disappeared because they destroyed their own habitat and we haven't been around for a few million years, homo sapiens have been around for a couple of hundred thousand years at most. It is pretty dumb and purile to look the other way while we over consume, pollute and destroy our habitat and we say can't do a damn thing about it. We can do something about it and we can leave a planet fit for succeeding generations to inherit. It has nothing to do with fear, it has everything to do with not being selfish and willfully ignorant. If you really don't think people are capable of changing the atmosphere, produce the math that most scientists are obviously missing.

Species have always destroyed their own habitat. Evolution has given us the brains and the awareness to do something about it but obviously evolution is not that evolved in many members of the human species.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 1:50:57 AM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

While I didn't read the entire thing, I did read a good piece of it. I tend to agree. Everything we do makes heat. Even when we air condition a room by pumping the heat out by refridgeration, we are creating heat. One might argue that once the AC is off an equilibrium is reached, which is true. But the refrigeration unit running made heat as well.

I agree that we cannot fix this. First of all we require heat to live in places where it gets cold. Winter or summer it still contributes to the overall heat in the biosphere. Ergo, WE are the problem inherently. It is not necessarily our technology or our SUVs, it is us. Us ourselves.

The things we need require us to make heat using today's technology.You can't expect a person to heat their home without making heat. Evan a heat pump can't, because just by it's running will produce heat.

You know it would be nice if it did not. If every BTU Man emitted was retrieved, and when it gets cold outside we literally pump heat, and actually cool the outside to heat our houses, we would be negating our effect on the ecosystem. Of course there is the other school of thought that says we are in a finite existence, that is as a species we have a life cycle. If this is so, we are probably about ready.

It is an interesting thought to mix that theory with one I have accepted as possible.

The one about the Earth's crust shifting, explaining many things. Now take this into consideration, global warming will at the very least delay that. Perhaps it was every 15,000 years before, but not any more. It would be alot longer.

To what degree there is blame to place, or on what technology is beyond me right now. We are an integral part of this environment, and as such have changed it as much as the grass (potecting the soil) the redwoods (same thing).

This is RIGHT NOW, so don't get nuts about it. Are we meant to do this ? We caused global warming, but we never had any choice. It's not just the superhighways, people have been building fires for a long time.

But are we part of the plan, that the polar ice does not get to sufficient mass to shift the crust again ?

So for the cost of a few countries worth of land (Holland comes to mind) we get a stable crust and our compasses still work. Is that an equitable trade, and do we want to make that trade. And if we don't, what do we do ? Freeze to death ?

Yes, we make heat, but what else can we do ?

T


Ummm, global warming isn't primarily caused by release of man made heat. It's caused by a increase of the suns energy getting trapped by gases. If the increased emissions weren't there the heat dissipation would be irrelevant to the climate as it is miniscule compared to the heating of the sun. This is  not caused directly by burning wood or trees, or any carbon based surface material for that matter, it is caused by introducing new carbon into the atmosphere that was previously isolated from the system like coal/oil that was isolated away from the atmosphere/surface. All the emissions from coal or oil won't be reabsorbed as readily because it adds a disproportionate amount of carbon versus carbon consumers(vegetation). They simply can't absorb it enough. And even when they absorb it, they rot/burn on the surface primarily. Thus not isolating the carbon from the surface/air but merely hold it in a burnable consumable state for awhile. You can't really fix the problem easily without removing the carbon introduced into the system from outside(buried coal/oil).

It's like dumping a bucket of water(carbon) down a small drain(vegetation). It will cycle it back down to some degree eventually, but it can't suck the water(emissions) fast enough if you just keep dumping more buckets of water on it from an outside source. But if you just dump the water(Carbon) back in that has passed down the drain(vegetation) back down again it remains balanced.

It has little to do with the direct heat we produce though. It's the gases trapping heat that are the problem, not vice versa. And one of the reasons for that is the vegetation just can't deal with it fast enough and rebury it fast enough so it remains in the same system for a long time. Growing, rotting or burning. Growing, rotting or burning. Each time a small amount gets trapped underground and eventually becomes isolated from the surface.

There is enough energy everywhere on the planet to completely stop all fossil fuels, so this is solvable, however it would cost money, so I doubt it will happen until New Orleans floods again, and it starts causing problems for other major areas. Wind, solar, and wave energy can provide more power than anyone could use. But it costs more so people don't do it. Also, people don't buy efficient property, and generally want a nice looking piece of crap versus a highly functional efficient appliance, house, car. If you live in a standard house you are easily wasting well over half of all energy for heating, cooling, lighting, etc... It's solvable, but one solar panel, led light, piece of insulation, properly designed house, at a time. People won't do it though, when has the populace every done anything they weren't directly forced to by threat to life, or luxury.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 5:50:41 AM   
subrob1967


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It's not that I don't believe in Global Warming, I just don't believe that Man is responsible.
I don't believe Al Gore, Environmentalists, or all the pseudoscience they use to blame man.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 6:28:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

It's not that I don't believe in Global Warming, I just don't believe that Man is responsible.
I don't believe Al Gore, Environmentalists, or all the pseudoscience they use to blame man.


So you believe the oil companies?

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 7:08:21 AM   
cyberdude611


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People need to understand that this planet was very, very different in the past. In geological science and climatology, the best way to figure out what will happen in the future is to look in the past. They have found fossils of tropical plants in Antartica and Alaska. Which showes that at one point in Earth's history in the post-dinosaur era, the average tempertature of the poles was over 90 degrees F. They think there were rainforests as far north as northern Canada.

The earth's magnetic field is also slowly becoming more and more unstable. Just in the last 200 years the field has weakened by more than 10%. The magnetic north pole is also moving north at increasing speed. At the present rate, it will be in Siberia within 20 years.

It all proves that we havn't a clue what this planet does. The Earth is 4 billion years old. Humans have only been here for the past 100,000 years. We have only been recording weather data the past 150 years. Yet many scientists think they are qualified enough to use the data of the past 100 years to verify that man is causing the earth to get hotter.
Did you know that the eruption of Mouth St Helens in 1980 spewed more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than all the cars in the world combined have for the past 20 years? Mount Etna in Italy did the same in 2002 when it erupted. Greenhouse gases are going into the atmosphere from underwater eruptions that happen every day. So we will NEVER stop the flow of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. The earth will continue to warm naturally no matter what we do.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 7:13:00 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I doubt that it is man-caused. Global temperatures have varied long before mankind existed.


Do you work for Exxon?

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2004397,00.html

meatcleaver:
I thought Exxon had decided that global warming was in fact a reality and was now working with and not against the global warming folks.  This appears to be an about face for them once again.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/2/2007 7:16:49 AM >

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 7:18:35 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

It's not that I don't believe in Global Warming, I just don't believe that Man is responsible.
I don't believe Al Gore, Environmentalists, or all the pseudoscience they use to blame man.


So you believe the oil companies?


Oil companies?

How can you determine what this planet is doing by looking at data of just the past 100 years? Even the past 1000 years? The earth is 4.5 BILLION YEARS OLD! It has warmed and cooled hundreds of times. The magnetic poles have shifted at least 170 times! Volcanic eruptions are releasing enormous emounts of CO2 and other greenhouses gases into the atmosphere every single day!

Yet you are telling me that oil companies are responsible for a 0.6 degree rise in average temperature over the past 100 years? And I would like to remind you that over the past 8 years, the average temperature hasn't warmed at all!

I was watching the discovery channel the other day and they had some scientists say that one major ice sheet in Antartica formed in 100 AD! Less than 2,000 years ago! That flies completely in the face of Global Warming scientists who claim the ice sheets were there 400,000 years ago.
In fact, one scientist said that if global warming were true, snowfall would be increasing. And there would be less hurricanes and tropical cyclones.

Sorry but I dont think we have enough information to say for certain what this planet is doing.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 8:29:41 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611


Oil companies?

How can you determine what this planet is doing by looking at data of just the past 100 years? Even the past 1000 years? The earth is 4.5 BILLION YEARS OLD! It has warmed and cooled hundreds of times. The magnetic poles have shifted at least 170 times! Volcanic eruptions are releasing enormous emounts of CO2 and other greenhouses gases into the atmosphere every single day!

Yet you are telling me that oil companies are responsible for a 0.6 degree rise in average temperature over the past 100 years? And I would like to remind you that over the past 8 years, the average temperature hasn't warmed at all!

I was watching the discovery channel the other day and they had some scientists say that one major ice sheet in Antartica formed in 100 AD! Less than 2,000 years ago! That flies completely in the face of Global Warming scientists who claim the ice sheets were there 400,000 years ago.
In fact, one scientist said that if global warming were true, snowfall would be increasing. And there would be less hurricanes and tropical cyclones.

Sorry but I dont think we have enough information to say for certain what this planet is doing.


It seems scientists are collecting data from ice cores that are 420,000 years old. Someone isn't telling the truth.

http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/

When well over 90% of scientists incvolved in this area of research are of the opinion human activity is a contributing factor to global warming, it is probably best we treat their opinion seriously. If they are wrong, the scientists and those that believed them will look stupid. If they right and we do nothing, well.....many of us won't be around to say 'I told you!!!!' so I guess people like you would win both ways.

However, if we do something about global warming and it is happening, just be honest with your grandchildren and tell them if it was for people like you they would be in deep trouble.

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 8:30:00 AM   
juliaoceania


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FR

Like the article that LAM posted stated, no matter what we do the temperature will rise because of the carbon feedback loop.. basically the warmer it gets, the more the soil thaws where it formally remained permanently frozen, this stores massive amounts of carbon.. Once thawed it will be liberated into the atmosphere.

I got to tell you folks... most reputable scientists believe global warming is anthropogenic, the real question is can we stop it now? We were in the position to a decade ago, I do not know that we can today. But we surely can reduce its impact if we try... or we can just slowly fry our planet...

Good news, we have atleast 10 years to enjoy it all before things get massively fucked up... go party, have a good time!

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 8:44:58 AM   
MissyRane


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Humans are assholes..enuff said

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 9:28:19 AM   
pantera


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The weather has been horrible in Atlanta lately...I say the globe needs to get even warmer...

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RE: latest global warming report - 2/2/2007 10:02:19 AM   
cyberdude611


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How long do we attempt to keep the planet exactly where it is. What if a few years from now the world starts to cool like it did in the middle ages or for a few years during the 1970s? Will we see people crying about needing to warm the world up?
I mean this is ridiculous. The world changes every single day. No matter what we do, we cannot control the earth's natural climatic cycles. Most scientists agree that we will have another Ice Age in the future, but before that can happen, the Antartic and Greenland ice sheets need to melt. So no matter what we do...that ice will melt. It is only a matter of time.

In 2012, NASA says that the sun will go through a major magnetic shift cycle stronger than any we have seen before. This will cause a major increase in solar storms and may create enough radiation to fry some of our satillites currently in orbit. It will also increase the temperature of our oceans during that period leading to possibly very serious changes in our weather and climate that may become permanent.

There are things out of our control. If you have ever been through a major weather or geological event, you will know how humans have absolutely no control or say in what nature or this planet decides to do. We are fortunate enough over the past 100,000 years to have lived through a period of geological, climate, and solar stability. But signs and historical trends all point to one thing, this stability will not last. Its a mathematical certainty.

Maybe this is why all the great thinkers of the 20th century said we better push everything we have into technology to develop space travel. Because this planet may not last much longer.

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