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RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/3/2007 7:07:46 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I think your right about "pride and denial", in fact I know that you are. He believes that a person should be able to handle their own problems without any outside help. But sometimes that just is not true, we all need help occasionally. But with men they haven't been conditioned to ask for help when they need, for some silly reason they view it as being weak.

I am going to try to help him open up and talk a bit more about what he is feeling. I hope that will help. I know from personal experience that depression is a monster that can eat a person alive. I am going to approach from the angle that his health, mental and phyiscal effect not only him but me as well. That may help guide him along the path of getting some help.

Thank you!
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to BeautifulRacket)

Post #: 21

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/3/2007 7:15:28 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Thats the thing as far as I know he does have some male friends, but he rarely speaks of them and I've never met them. I get the impression these are mainly guys from work though and not real friends that you spend time with during off hours. Jack is a loner from what I've gathered in our conversations about our pasts that we have had. He has built his whole world around me and when we part he falls deep into subdrop.

I've known men to have depression, a couple of the guys that work for me suffer from it. It seems to come and go without any real pattern that I can see. I think with Jack that he has probably had it off and on all his life, hence why he got so deep into drugs and alcohol. He has lived his life trying to be the perfect picture of a "alpha male" when that isn't who he really is and its taken its toil on him.

But I am with him for the long haul. I refuse to abandon him like the women before me did. I am sure I will figure out a way to get him over this, it will just take persistance, patience and time.

Thanks,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 22

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/3/2007 7:19:54 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Oh I will not leave him! That would be the worst thing that I could do. I see he is suffering internally and beating himself to death. To walk out on someone like that is beyond cruel.

I am there for him and for now my needs can wait. I know he won't be like this forever. He feels he has to live at home right now to take care of his Mother and his Father (who is senile). I've tried to get him to get his siblings more involved in his parents care. I feel he needs the break and financially he is supporting them as well as himself. I just found out this last tidbit the other night. No wonder the man is broke all the time.

Right now I'm working on building up his self esteem. I have a friend who is a therapist and I spoke with her at length about this and she gave me some ideas to try with him.

We shall see how it goes.
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 23

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/3/2007 7:22:56 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Your right KatyLied it is a life/relationship issue. D/s is put aside because I cannot order him to see a therapist. If he doesn't want help it would be a total waste of time and money.

I feel this is something he has had his entire life and it is a problem in which he needs to learn how to handle it. The first step is realizing that there IS a problem. Right now he is caught up in that pride/denial thing and thats the first hurdle I have to help him conquer.

Thanks,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 24

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/3/2007 6:28:02 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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At some point you have to make it clear that the reason the other women left was because he would not go for help. He is sucking all your energy out of you and at some point you will have to leave too in order to protect yourself. Make this clear to him that he is the one pushing partners away by doing this.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 25

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/4/2007 8:01:00 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

At some point you have to make it clear that the reason the other women left was because he would not go for help. He is sucking all your energy out of you and at some point you will have to leave too in order to protect yourself. Make this clear to him that he is the one pushing partners away by doing this.

I agree mostly.

While it is wonderful to be supportive, Lashra, you aren't talking about your husband or a man you've been with for a decade. It's a relatively new relationship and it isn't frankly starting off very strongly -- based on only what you've posted here in this forum.

You need to take care of yourself because if you don't not only will you not be much strength for anyone else but you could do yourself some emotional and physical harm.

Everyone has their problems but everyone also has to be active and realistic in dealing with their own problems. It's great and necessary to have support but you can't be supportive of something that isn't being done.

I don't personally like the idea of saying "if you don't do X then I'll do Y" because it sounds like a threat to me; I'm not convinced that real growth and change comes from threats.

In the past when I've been in this situation I have flat out ended any part of the relationship that was sexual or BDSM and offered my continued friendship. When asked "what?!" I explained that I'm looking for a slave who has the power to give me; right now my friend you need to get more power for yourself by getting the help you need.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

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(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 26

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/4/2007 3:37:58 PM

SCDommie

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline

Dear Larsha:

One more thing I wanted to let you know that I have learned about depression.
If you have suffered with it before as you say you have, his depression will bring your depression back.
Just tell him that either he goes for help, or you will have to let him go. This is for your own good. That is what I did to my slave. It sounds horrible, but there were other issues involved where he had to come to realizaiton his responsibilities to me. Sit down and write a list of why you want to keep this slave, and write down the reasons why you don't want to keep him if it comes to it.
He is dragging you down.

SCD

(in reply to SCDommie)

Post #: 27

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/5/2007 10:40:12 AM

jamesthehumanrug

Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline

i hate to be curt goddess but depression is anger and its either turned in or out ;i could never last w/ a depressed person functional or not ;it's hell;you could get hurt;

my condolences

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Over the last 6 months my sub has been suffering from depression and it is beginning to effect our relationship. To give you some background he is new to the submissive end of the whip, in his prior relationships he was in the dominant role. He has a history of financial woes and drug/alcohol abuse. He has been clean for 8 years now and as far as I know has not lapsed. His Mother to whom he is very close was just diagnosed with cancer and she has other medical problems.
As I stated previously our relationship was great until about 6 months ago when this depression hit. We can only see each other on every other weekend and so when we would get together naturally we both would want to scene. But he started acting out prior to playtime and this led to correction from me and some arguing. By the time we were done with correction and arguing the mood to play was gone. I have discussed this with him in an effort to find out what is going on. He says that he feels “pressured” because he knows that we do not have a lot of time. He feels fearful that once playtime is over he will not be able to get an errection (on 2 occasions after an intense scene he couldn’t get an erection. I realize this is due to all the body chems and the blood supply being redirected to other areas) and we always have sex right after play. He states that he misses me badly when we aren't together and he wishes we could live together. But right now that isnt possible and he knows this. He says he is afraid of disappointing me and that I will leave him. I have reassured him that he has nothing to fear. His anxiety has gotten so bad that it is affecting him physically, he has an upset stomach almost all the time.
I understand depression as I have fought that monster myself and I am trying to be patient and work with him. I am giving him time to work through this and I have encouraged him to seek help. But he refuses to go see anyone saying he will work it out himself. But frankly I am getting frustrated because I feel my needs aren’t being met. I enjoy pain play and I miss it. I’ve told him if he has had a change of heart and that this isn’t for him, he needs to tell me. He swears he loves our play and he wants to engage in it. But this fear he has is holding him back.
I know he has a lot of things going on with him right now and I am trying to encourage him and be patient. But there is a part of me that’s feeling that my needs aren’t being met. We are in a monogamous relationship and I love him very much. Has anyone else had anything like this happen and if so, what did you do about it?

~Lashra

_____________________________

I REMAIN RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 28

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/6/2007 5:00:29 AM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

Counsellors/agencies that specialise in men's issues are becoming more common and he may be more willing to go to one of these groups. Unfortunately the first step of admitting to ourselves that we need help can sometimes bring overwhelming and irrational fear, shame and guilt. I wish you both all the best.

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
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(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 29

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 5:31:50 AM

ServenteMail

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

Dump the looser. Why would a superior creature have any thing to do (or for that matter even care about) a pathetic one? Move on and occupy yourself with another slave.

(in reply to SCDommie)

Post #: 30

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 5:40:38 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

Dump the looser. Why would a superior creature have any thing to do (or for that matter even care about) a pathetic one? Move on and occupy yourself with another slave.

As someone in the same position as Lashra on this one, I fear it might be wasted words to explain why some of us cant just move on. It might well turn out that I am my own worst enemy, but I just cant leave someone drowning who is worth rescuing, and who with all his faults and problems, loves me.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to ServenteMail)

Post #: 31

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 9:37:22 AM

ServenteMail

Posts: 23
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline

Ellen, you list yourself as a switch - Lashra is Domme - BIG difference – You are not in the same position as Lashra. A Domme does not need some depressed drunk bothering Her. Lashra needs to remember She is better and get out of this mind funk She is in. Emotion, caring and feelings are for the weak or slaves who have not had those traits beaten out of them yet. They are NOT for one such as Lashra. The fact that in an open forum where Her slave could read her words says “We are in a monogamous relationship and I love him very much.” shows just how badly this drug addict is pulling Lashra down.

Dump him. Show this pathetic looser what he really needs to hear and move on or become what he is.

quote:
ORIGINAL: Celeste43
He is sucking all your energy out of you and at some point you will have to leave too in order to protect yourself. Make this clear to him that he is the one pushing partners away by doing this.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 32

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 9:43:34 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

Emotion, caring and feelings are for the weak or slaves who have not had those traits beaten out of them yet.

You posted this to the wrong thread...the "Myth Busters" one is a few lines down.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 2/7/2007 9:44:05 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to ServenteMail)

Post #: 33

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 9:51:10 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

Ellen, you list yourself as a switch - Lashra is Domme - BIG difference – You are not in the same position as Lashra. A Domme does not need some depressed drunk bothering Her. Lashra needs to remember She is better and get out of this mind funk She is in. Emotion, caring and feelings are for the weak or slaves who have not had those traits beaten out of them yet. They are NOT for one such as Lashra. The fact that in an open forum where Her slave could read her words says “We are in a monogamous relationship and I love him very much.” shows just how badly this drug addict is pulling Lashra down.

Dump him. Show this pathetic looser what he really needs to hear and move on or become what he is.

quote:
ORIGINAL: Celeste43
He is sucking all your energy out of you and at some point you will have to leave too in order to protect yourself. Make this clear to him that he is the one pushing partners away by doing this.

I'm sorry SM. You have been here what? A day? And you claim to know all about me and others, and what is best for us? There is always stuff going on in the background on these things SM, and especially on this thread. You dont know this guy that Lashra is talking about, I dont either except by association with someone I know. You also dont seem to understand that this guy is a human being in an adult relationship in the real world, not a character in a fantasy novel.

BTW, yes I register as a switch, but I also register as bisexual. Why dont you work it out since youre such a clever boy?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to ServenteMail)

Post #: 34

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 9:57:52 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I object to my quote being used by that very unpleasant bigot. Made the mistake of reading his profile and am revolted.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 35

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 1:13:53 PM

BreatheinToMe

Posts: 58
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Your right KatyLied it is a life/relationship issue. D/s is put aside because I cannot order him to see a therapist. If he doesn't want help it would be a total waste of time and money.

I feel this is something he has had his entire life and it is a problem in which he needs to learn how to handle it. The first step is realizing that there IS a problem. Right now he is caught up in that pride/denial thing and thats the first hurdle I have to help him conquer.

Thanks,
~Lashra

Depression, not dealt with, could last years. After 6 months of doing it his way, I might ask him "How is that workin for ya?" Therapy, sounds like just one more pressure to deal with.

I would look into support groups, instead, to actually get suggestions on how to deal with real day-to-day issues he is facing.
I don't know if he went to AA before, but going back there for the 12 step meetings will do him a world of good. To keep him only addicted to YOU..:) He doesn't have to wait till he has a relapse!

Then, also like someone else suggested a caregiver support group, from hospice or any hospital near him. There is a special group at www.angelonmyshoulder.org that caters to the caregivers ! I never went to any functions they had, but just reading the material was supportive for me. There is a lot to be said about knowing there are other people going through the same things you are, and sharing information and stories.

Good luck to you both!

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 36

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/7/2007 3:11:38 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

Lets get something straight I do what I want to do, no one pulls me down. He is not a looser nor a drunk. He gave that up and is working on getting his shit together. Everyone has faults including YOU and one of those is you forget you too are human and have faults.

Perhaps when someone close to you gets a terminal illness you can shrug it off easily because your too uncaring about anyone other than yourself for it to make an impression on you. But other people care.

Don't judge me or mine, judge yourself because honestly, no one gives two cents about your opinions.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to ServenteMail)

Post #: 37

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/9/2007 4:29:40 AM

LadyIce

Posts: 406
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

It sounds like you will be able to work this out with your submissive. I hope everything works out for you.
Many don't realize that BDSM relationships will have ups and downs, just as all relationships. Being in this lifestyle
does not shield you from normal life events.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 38

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/9/2007 5:43:06 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I will say this .. because you love him.. your responsiblity as his Dominant is not abdicated. You have to provide him with the opportunity to be the best that he can be.. and it maybe time for some Tough Love. You can not make him go to a thearpist but you can make it dang uncomfortable until such time as he speaks to his sponser, physican, or a counsellor. You need what you need true.. but what you need most is a loyal devoted emotional secure submissive. If this is the guy for you take charge. In similar situation a submissive stopped taking meds for depression and anxiety without telling his Dominant the mood swings where unfortunate and really damaging to the relationship. THe submissive finally fessed up but refused to take them because it was felt by the submissive that functioning without them was normal the DOminat had to insist that until such time as the submissive was put their D/s relationship first and was compliant with meds again that the D/s had to be put on hold. Your partners choices are damaging your relationship working away at the foundations and until such time as you insist that he work at being healthy so you all can have a fulfilling D/s relationship therby taking charge again (because his moods are leading the relationship) you wont be doing the best you can do for him. In my view he is really looking toward you for some guidance and for you to help him help himself. I hope you take this opportunity to be the best you can be for him.

< Message edited by Sylverdawn -- 2/9/2007 5:47:14 AM >

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to LadyIce)

Post #: 39

RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub - 2/9/2007 6:11:29 AM

LeatherBentOne

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

Why don't you set up an appointment for him to be evaluated, which would be the first step in the process. Explain that the visit is just to get a professional opinion as to whether or not he needs help, but that actually getting help will be his decision. This my reduce the anxiety and stigma he feels. He also may be feeling that he is being weak ~ you know, that age-old male ego thing.

If he decides to get the help he sounds like he needs, offer to go with him for the counselling and sit in the waiting room as moral support. This would probably re-assure him that you love him, care for him and willing to work with him. In return, you can eventually and carefully explain that your needs aren't being met but use lots of tact, diplomacy and positive energy, so he doesn't take this as criticism but that you care so much for the relationship, that you want to see it improve and become stronger on both fronts.

If he decides he doesnt want treatment, than you are left with no choice but to take care of yourself first. Sad but true. Ive learned the hard way to be what one might conceive as being "selfish and uncaring." But, I deserve to be good to me and take care of myself, not succumbing to those who dont feel that they are worthy of taking care of self. If this comes to pass, remember you arent any good to anyone else, if youre first, not good to yourself.

By the way, do you think he's more concerned about the "performance" issue than anything else and is too embarrassed the topic may come up? (no pun intended

)

Best wishes to both of you and please keep us informed. My heart goes out to you.

LBO

(in reply to SCDommie)

Post #: 40

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