Fearful and Depressed Sub (Full Version)

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Lashra -> Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 5:06:52 AM)

Over the last 6 months my sub has been suffering from depression and it is beginning to effect our relationship. To give you some background he is new to the submissive end of the whip, in his prior relationships he was in the dominant role. He has a history of financial woes and drug/alcohol abuse. He has been clean for 8 years now and as far as I know has not lapsed. His Mother to whom he is very close was just diagnosed with cancer and she has other medical problems.  
As I stated previously our relationship was great until about 6 months ago when this depression hit. We can only see each other on every other weekend and so when we would get together naturally we both would want to scene. But he started acting out prior to playtime and this led to correction from me and some arguing. By the time we were done with correction and arguing the mood to play was gone.   I have discussed this with him in an effort to find out what is going on. He says that he feels “pressured” because he knows that we do not have a lot of time. He feels fearful that once playtime is over he will not be able to get an errection (on 2 occasions after an intense scene he couldn’t get an erection. I realize this is due to all the body chems and the blood supply being redirected to other areas) and we always have sex right after play. He states that he misses me badly when we aren't together and he wishes we could live together. But right now that isnt possible and he knows this. He says he is afraid of disappointing me and that I will leave him. I have reassured him that he has nothing to fear. His anxiety has gotten so bad that it is affecting him physically, he has an upset stomach almost all the time.  
I understand depression as I have fought that monster myself and I am trying to be patient and work with him. I am giving him time to work through this and I have encouraged him to seek help. But he refuses to go see anyone saying he will work it out himself. But frankly I am getting frustrated because I feel my needs aren’t being met. I enjoy pain play and I miss it. I’ve told him if he has had a change of heart and that this isn’t for him, he needs to tell me. He swears he loves our play and he wants to engage in it. But this fear he has is holding him back. 
I know he has a lot of things going on with him right now and I am trying to encourage him and be patient. But there is a part of me that’s feeling that my needs aren’t being met. We are in a monogamous relationship and I love him very much.  Has anyone else had anything like this happen and if so, what did you do about it?

~Lashra



sting516 -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 5:17:00 AM)

i went through something similar to this with a vanilla girlfriend many years ago...her mother also was diagnosed with cancer and she got depressed about it...after that time, she changed...i waited over a year for a change in attitude, but it did not come...all i can say is, you need to determine if the sub is worth the wait...it can be quite frustrating at times...and i feel that the period of time i waited was appropriate for me...you may feel differently, but that's all i can say.



Rule -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 5:23:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
(on 2 occasions after an intense scene he couldn’t get an erection. I realize this is due to all the body chems and the blood supply being redirected to other areas) and we always have sex right after play. ~Lashra
Quite. I analyzed an analogous case in one of the health threads. In that case the subject got a intense headache or migraine after an intense flogging session. I determined that this must be because all the blood is pushed out of the body core to the skin, but that when the skin recuperates the body core remains closed and thus the blood is forced into the head, widening the arteries and thereby causing migraine.
In the case of your sub the same appears to be the case. Because the body core remains closed to the blood for some time after the session, the penis cannot achieve erection.
 
In the case of the headache I suggested ingesting ice cream or cold (a bit saline)  fluid. (I do not know if that works and would recommend trying only a small amount first in case there is an adverse effect.) You might try that.
 
Otherwise, you may want to change the pattern of your session. If you start out with a flogging instead of end with a flogging, his body core may recuperate during the remainder of the session. Or else shorten it. Perhaps do the same in shorter episodes. Or have intercourse during the session and flog him afterwards. Or leave it out altogether and try to get pain satisfaction in other ways.



thetammyjo -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 7:01:35 AM)

Sometimes being the dominant means making decisions that are best but do not make us or the other person happy.

Having supported some people who clearly needed professional help but refused to get it, I had to make a new rule for myself a few years ago.

I train no one who is not getting all the help they need --- physical or emotional. I certainly do not own or have sex with anyone who I don't train first thus everyone needs to be taking care of themselves.

Period.

Does it hurt to make this decision? Of course.

It hurts a lot more to just continue as things are. In fact, I would argue that it does more than hurt you, it harms you -- your sense of self worth, your sense of control, your sense of the relationship; it harms the submissive in the same way.

I don't know about you but my number two rule for anything I do is that I do not purposely do harm. I know continue this sort of situation would be harmful therefore I don't do these any more.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 7:03:20 AM)

If he's been depressed for six months, it's time to see a professional. Once his depression is under control a bit, I'm betting the other things either correct themselves or you'll both have an easier time of dealing with them. The depression might actually be what's fueling the performance problems.

Master Fire



sloki -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 9:33:55 AM)

You are giving Your sub subtle cues that You are distancing Yourself.  I picked up on them in Your note. Good subs pick up on everything.  If You arent sure, we know it, even when You dont. Losing a parent is rough.  Mabey Your needs should be held in check while Your sub deals with his own. 



KatyLied -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 9:49:48 AM)

It sounds like he is depressed and also has anxiety.  Two different things, but they often co-exist.  I will echo those who've said it's time for him to see someone, in my opinion, it should be a psychiatrist, because he may benefit from medication and I feel that it should come from someone specialized in mood disorders.  Hopefully he understands that his situation is impacting the relationship and he will want to take steps to remedy this.  You can't force him, he has to want to do it.  I know this is obvious and not exactly helpful, but you already know these things to be true.



thetammyjo -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 10:16:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It sounds like he is depressed and also has anxiety. Two different things, but they often co-exist. I will echo those who've said it's time for him to see someone, in my opinion, it should be a psychiatrist, because he may benefit from medication and I feel that it should come from someone specialized in mood disorders. Hopefully he understands that his situation is impacting the relationship and he will want to take steps to remedy this. You can't force him, he has to want to do it. I know this is obvious and not exactly helpful, but you already know these things to be true.


While she can't force him to see someone she can take care of herself and refuse to continue as things are until he gets help.

Why is it that some folks are encouraging her to continue in a situation where neither of them are happy?

Is this advice coming from her being dominant and therefore she has to assume all responsibility? BS. Part of being dominant is making these really tough decisions about what is best for both of you. I do not see anywhere in any of her posts that this particular relationship is the best for her.

Is this advice coming from her being a woman and therefore she should take care of others before herself? Again, BS. Are dominant women we should be empowering each other not falling back on thus often harmful gender stereotypes.

Yeah, I'm pissed because I've been through this and it was harming me, the sub in question, and the rest of my household. Sometimes you have to say "no" and then the ball is in the other person's court; they then show how much they value themselves and your relationship by the steps they take.



KatyLied -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 10:35:16 AM)

I'm not encouraging her in that way.  All I'm saying is that she can't force him, he needs to take that step for himself.  It's completely her choice to determine how far down the road of conflict she wants to travel.  It is his choice to get or not get the help he needs.  To me this is a life/relationship issue; not a lifestyle issue.  But I often feel that way about many things.



ToServeIsToLive -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 2:26:35 PM)

I was in a similar situation two years ago.  I had some massive anxiety issues because several overlaping issues with college work.  I knew it was pretty bad from one of the times I met her I didn't have any barriers up to hide it and she was in shock over how ragged I looked.  In the end, I left a message saying I couldn't see her anymore and cut off all ties.  It seemed nessacary at the time for me to beable to sort the rest of my life out (we were close to family so it was a very tough decision);  I also didn't want to draw other people into the impending problems that were approaching.  I hope things work out better for you, but I thought I'd let you know what happened to me.



Celeste43 -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 2:26:45 PM)

Suggest he go talk to someone at Hospice. They will give him help on how best to help his mother and give him the info he needs to understand what she's going through. Beyond that, all I can say is sometimes tough love is necessary.

You need to make it clear to him that by refusing to have his depression treated, he is being unable to be there for his mother and he is pushing all his support system away. Before he can ask that other people are there for him, he has to be there for him first.

I also suggest a psychiatrist for medication and then therapy to learn new ways of dealing with stress once the depression has been lifted.



BeautifulRacket -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 4:41:57 PM)

I've been in a similar position a few times, one of then when my mother-in-law was sick, then dying from cancer. For the most part, I gave my husband the space and support he needed, but I did push certain things like setting up appointments with, then taking him to see a grief counselor at a local hospice and communicating about his feelings. It was very difficult, but he'd taken care of me and put his own needs aside before, so I sucked it up and waited it out while trying to give him as much of a sense of stability and normalcy as possible. Living together certainly made that easier.

At other times, I've set up doctors appointments and such for him. He'll go if I put it in place and support him through it, but he's resistant to doing it on his own (a matter of pride and denial, I think). I've always impressed that it's necessary for my peace of mind, and the health of our relationship because his physical and emotional issues affect that. That's a genuine belief on my part, and ultimatums have nothing to do with it, but it does seem to work when I send the message that 'this problem is hurting me, and I need for you to get it checked out/treated, so I'm going to help you make that happen.'

I don't know if any of this will help you, or if your relationship is such that you could help him get the help your sub needs, but figured I'd throw my $0.02 in just in case.



PsyVamp -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 5:39:57 PM)

I understand completely, although mine is seeking treatment and on medication (he started prior to our coming together).  His addiction is a little harder to deal with in a D/s or BDSM situation because of the way he "beats himself up" with it and I feel as if we can't play at all when he is having issues (he doesn't have a chemical or alcohol addiction). 
He and I are in the same situation where we only see each other every other weekend and yes, it is very difficult when they are feeling out of sorts and cannot have the reassurance of physical touch.
Does your sub belong to any 12 step groups?  Sometimes it helps to have someone else to talk to.  If it is clinical depression, he may have no choice but to see a doctor.
And I know it is rough, sometimes it may even seem like it takes too much effort just to keep him together. Make sure the lines of communication are open and honest between both of you. 
I find that it helps to have other people to talk to about it, if only to assure myself that everyone hits a rough spot here and there.

Good luck Lashra and know that you are not alone.




MzMia -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 9:17:17 PM)

As someone that has suffered a life shattering and tremendous loss 2 years ago, your post speaks volumes to me.
I am not exactly sure of the scope of the personal turmoil your submissive is dealing with.
Very few of us will go through life without experiencing life changing circumstances.
IF I had been in a serious romantic relationship the past 2 years, the person would have had to be VERY VERY understanding.
It would have been asking a lot of someone else, I have had to go "inside" myself a lot.
Many marriages and relationships do not last through tremendous loss, suffering, illness, death, etc.
 
 I am still grieving, and I expect to deal with my loss the rest of my life.
Some things you don't "get over", you live with them and they become a part of your soul.
I hope you and your submissive are able to work through this, and I hope you can get him to reach towards you instead
of withdrawing and running away from his real insecurities and feelings.
Maybe couples counseling would be a good idea.
Again, I wish you good luck and I hope you are able to work this out.



bludemonn -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 9:48:58 PM)

All BDSM matters aside I do feel for you as a person who feels responsible for your partners feelings, yes you do want your needs met but you feel awful for thinking you should perhaps distance yourself from him. Not keen on the word 'depression' as its way too much of a grey area for me, I do believe he needs a good counsellor, someone he can spill his heart out too and then move forward, maybe it is unfair for you to feel you can be everything for him, do him a favour for his own good and introduce him to a Master of the speaking arts. 



ineedotk -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/2/2007 10:49:13 PM)

If I had to guess, I'd say he's become quite emotionally dependent on you; similar to how a child is dependent on its mother.  I would say he's looking to you to somehow do or say the "right thing" so he'll feel better.  So the normal activites you two participate in would only hinder his truely opening up to you, because he's looking for you to do and/or say something different.  I think he sees you as a mother figure who should already know the right thing to do and say.  And because you don't, he's hurt that you aren't being the authority figure he thinks you should be.  So obviously he's NOT going to work this out on his own, because he wants you to do it for him.  And if you think about it, why wouldn't he?  Afterall, he's the sub who's looking up to his Domme.  And it sounds like his personality fits into the sub position perfectly.  So my suggestion would be to go to him and have an adult/adult discussion - not just so much about his present situation, but about how he views the relationship you two have.  Find out just how he really sees you; that way you can better see what it is he's expecting of you.  Once you've established that, then you can attempt to guide him as to what HE should do, because he needs to know what YOUR limits are in helping him through this.



UtopianRanger -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/3/2007 3:58:31 AM)

I know you've posted a little bit on this once before.... I was pulln' for ya, hoping he would get better. Depression in men is something I just don't understand. I know I've had a few buds who've been depressed when something happens with their lady, but my way to help them out is to just go over and hell....carry them out of the house if I have to, and put a lot of pressure on them with other friends to hang out and go do something fun. But this sounds like something much deeper.

How bout his buddies....his male friends, do you know them? Maybe you can talk to them and tell them what's up......surely it couldn't hurt.




- R






Vendaval -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/3/2007 4:09:58 AM)

Two quick thoughts -
 
Does he have his own MD or GP?  He can bring up the
depression problem and ask about some of the available
treatments, even get basic prescriptions, without having to
pay for a psychiatrist immediately.
 
Also, if he was in a 12-step program he most likely had a
sponsor and friends who aided in his recovery.  Sometimes
an old friend can help you be more honest with yourself
and help you re-evaluate your life.
 
Please let us know how the situation goes.
 
 



Rule -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/3/2007 5:04:23 AM)

He does not feel safe. He is insecure. His mother is leaving him and he fears that you will be leaving him. Financially his life has been a disaster and it is only natural that he expects more of the same. Self-fulfilling fears. Spiritually he is on a self-created path down into darkness instead of up into the light. Going down the drain. He does need you, no doubt about that.
 
Consider finding him a good spiritual counselor to discuss the meaning of life and everything.
 
I do not know why you cannot live together with your mate. When will that ever be possible? This is not a healthy situation for any relationship.
 
Also consider that he is still addicted: endorphine addicted. You give him a dose and a high every two weeks, but in between he is going cold turkey. That can easily feed depression if that arises for another reason.
 
I remember the earlier thread that you had going about his problems. The situation is complex. We are far away.
 
I still think that it would be best if his mother died. (What am I saying, my own mother is making full speed on the highway to death and I am desperate myself.) Look, you are his life-line. Do not let go. If possible at all, make him hold tight to any other life lines that he may have.



SCDommie -> RE: Fearful and Depressed Sub (2/3/2007 6:29:17 AM)

Dear Lashra:

I just went through this with my slave when I moved him into my home.   He started acting strangely. 
It was depression.   My slave is happy now that he has his own home. Some people have to have something to work for. 
The depression is better.
I noticed your sub  is close to his mother.  This would be a tremendous loss to most all of us and could bring depression to a low time.  He is probably grieving or in the first stages.
My slave's father and I are able to talk.  He and I teamed up on the slave and have an open door for him to go to a psyche when he is ready. But he is so much better now that he is in his own place, I really don't think he needs to go.  It is a $150.00 per hour.   I go to one and they have an office in his town.  
He seems to be having physical and phsycological problems related to depression.  It will destroy your relationship eventually.
If he is a switch, he is also having problems adjusting to complete servitude.  He could very well be a Dom. 
Dom/Domme couples are out there everywhere.  It would not be such a terrible thing to have a Dom as your partner.
That is just from my experience in both depression and being a former switch until I realized who I really was.

SCD



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