RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 4:19:29 AM)

Subs aren't sluts, they are cock teasers as far as I can tell and Doms are hoping the cock tease is a joke and she really is a slut but as many Dom's appear to find out, the cock tease is for real and they aren't going to bury their salami so easily. The problem with D/s as far as I can tell is that at its heart are sexually frustrated puritans who want the forbidden fruit but daren't take it.

Spare me subs looking for 'the one' who they can respect for treating her like a piece of loose ass. Spare me the Dom who thinks obedient sluts are for real. A slut is a slut precisely because she puts her ass around! This Dom and sub thing is nonsense in a committed relationship because 'he' isn't going to think she really is a slut if he respects her and she isn't really going to act like a slut if she really thought that is what he thinks she is!

Men are men and women are women. You date each other and then you find out if there is anything between you. If a woman wants to be slut then she should be a sub or a slut she should be one or the other or both but spare us the demonstrative 'I am submissive and I won't have anyone telling me I'm not!' which was actually said by someone I knew. She wasn't submissive, she just longed kinky sex but was sexually frustrated because her morals were so fucked up she couldn't just bring herself to have kinky sex. 

As the owner of my local fetish shop said (about Holland), we are too open minded here, we need a little more sexual suppressive morals, a little more sexual frustration, a little more denial, it will spice up the scene and be really good for business. When having kinky sex  is like turning on a tap, it just isn't that kinky anymore. When your best friend is a slut, she just isn't a slut anymore. The world is upside down.

Take this soapbox away!



toservez -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 6:05:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

Hello,

Some people consider Ds to be a caste system.  Some (most) people don't, as evidenced by the number of submissives who are clear that they only submit to those to whom they have agreed to submit to.

Some people, such as Raven, feel that dominance is gender based and refuse to treat the opposite gender as peers in any situation.

These beliefs are fine until they run into contradictory beliefs.  Free choice and consent are crucial.  If I do not consent to defer to someone, they are in the wrong by attempting to force me into deferring to them.  They are wrong to expect me to automatically defer to them because I have not consented to do so. 

To say that submissives, particularly unowned submissives should act a certain way and should defer to others by virtue of that other person's self identification effectively robs the submissive of their ability to consent.  I consider this to be wrong.

The fact is that there are no agreed upon standards for calling oneself a dominant or a submissive.  You are a dominant or a submissive if you decide you are.  You are a functional dominant or submissive if you can manage to get one other person to agree with you.  It takes no more than that, so to create a caste system based on what kind of hat someone decides to wear seems a little ludicrous to me. 

Take care,

Peggy


I just thought this was beautifully and intelligently written.

If people cannot respect different opinions or beliefs and maybe more importantly that no one person or group of people are better then others but are just different, especially when the other people are living quite well with those beliefs, then it is not about M/s, D/s, Gorean and any other label but about class.

Respect is not about how you get treated by another person. That is just a small part of it. Part of it is also about how you treat other people and for some that is always an issue in life.

To get back to the OP just a little, if a person wants “respect” when writing in a profile, they need to give it as well. Putting something like “submissive should know her place” does not show disrespect to a submissive the odds are the rest of the context of the profile will be of I am great, strong and right and infer or state submissives are weak and inferior and that is disrespectful.






mymasterssub69 -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 6:16:22 AM)

another reason why my block list is growing

i had one dom message me back after replying to him that i didn't show him proper respect and suggested that i should be punished for it. HA! after replying that he was in no position to receive my respect as a man (first) and then as a dom - he received his respect on my block list.

i too don't like it when doms here expect me to call them "Sir" or "Master" when they are not. i suppose they skip reading the part that states bigsambaman is my Daddy-Dom



feastie -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 6:27:21 AM)

A submissive's place is determined by her dominant.  If she has no dominant, then it is determined by her.  No conditions apply.



valeca -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 6:54:01 AM)

This is my place:

I show common curtesy to every stranger I meet.

I show common curtesy and appreciation to every acquaintance I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, and respect to every friend I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, respect, and adoration to every loved one I have.


The one thing they all have in common is the caveat:  ...until it's demonstrated they no longer merit it.







Celeste43 -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 6:58:27 AM)

My place is with him.

Just because I am submissive does not mean I am your submissive. Doms who assume they can order around every submissive are just HNGs. They don't merit my respect because they've already shown they aren't worthy of it. And they sure don't get me to submit to them.



SCDommie -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 7:06:29 AM)

It is up to your Master/Mistress to teach a sub where their place is.  It is up to the submissive to follow through with that.   You cannot demand anyone to do anything.  It is an artform, and it is between the sub and Master. 

SCD



dawntreader -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 7:06:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

This is my place:

I show common curtesy to every stranger I meet.

I show common curtesy and appreciation to every acquaintance I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, and respect to every friend I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, respect, and adoration to every loved one I have.


The one thing they all have in common is the caveat:  ...until it's demonstrated they no longer merit it.



Well said! my philosophy as well!



valeca -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 7:10:57 AM)

Thank you! [:)]



untamedshysub -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 7:20:53 AM)

I read this in the book slavecraft. "To protect the property" and that is you. A sub/slave place is to protect herself first and to know what she wants and needs and to seek it from inside out not outside in. No one can make you whole you have to be whole before you go seeking. It also helps to understand the differfence between D/s and BDSM they are two different beast and each can stand alone. If you are only seeking the sexual part then BDSM is what you want, if you seek a relationship then D/s is what you want. D/s can be intertwined with BDSM but if a person is only seeking BDSM it cannot be mixed with D/s is my humble opinion and if people were more clear and up front about their needs there would be less  hurt and name calling.



dawntreader -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 7:30:02 AM)

In reply to meatcleaver:  very interesting post; certainly makes me think...



agirl -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 8:16:33 AM)

I wasn't *told* what my place was..............Over years, M SHOWED me **A* place* and I asked if I could go there.

If he wants me to *be* somewhere..........he makes me want it.

"Softee softee catchee monkey"

agirl













sensualmagirl -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 9:55:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

This is my place:

I show common curtesy to every stranger I meet.

I show common curtesy and appreciation to every acquaintance I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, and respect to every friend I have.

I show common curtesy, appreciation, respect, and adoration to every loved one I have.


The one thing they all have in common is the caveat:  ...until it's demonstrated they no longer merit it.



I'll second that, very well put, better than what I said... curtesy is very important and it's a two-way street. Thanks for the reminder, I try to live by the "golden rule" -- treat everyone as you would want to be treated -- tends to cover any questions on how I should treat people I meet.




stef -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 10:07:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenofPK

Well.......depending on my mood, there may be or may not be a reply that you wish for. Because I more than concede that this entire evening as been a huge waste of time.

But for those who are less than sincere, and less than serious, I am sure it provided hours of "entertainment". But more sensible minds have prevailed from outside this forum. Take that for whatever twisted way you need to to make yourselves feel victorious. It is hollow. For those that had the courage to discuss without imperative mood..............I wish you well.

You complain that no one took you seriously and now that someone is, you're cutting and running?  That tends to support the premise that the only thing you were serious about from the onset, was causing trouble.  Pity.

~stef



CollaredCat -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 11:47:21 AM)

Hmmm, actually it depends. I think there is a time and place to say 'piss off' depending on to whom I'm speaking and whether I believe there is any point in dealing with said person again. It would be an extremely rare occasion - I dislike using vulgarity in general.  

I asked several people what the term 'hold your tongue' meant to them and received, unanimously, that it meant to be quiet, stop talking or shut up. Not one of the at least 10 people I asked thought it even remotely meant to speak politely or choose your words carefully. If I misunderstood your meaning ... I don't believe I'm the only one by far.



slavejali -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/4/2007 12:27:53 PM)

quote:

Well, I read that sentence a lot in profiles. Many doms say "a submissive should know her place!" and I ask, what is a submissive's place? at your feet right from the beginning even before they know you, even before you earn their respect, even before you earn the right to have them willingly kneel at your feet?


I think a submissives place before she has entered into any agreement is one of respect, respect for herself/himself and respect for the person he/she is talking to.

quote:

I would presume a profile is for people who doesn't know me, is a place to introduce myself. Unless a profile is specifically written for someone, it should be respectful to the general readers.

So even as a submissive, I don't appreciate the words such as "I demand respect!" or "You should know your place, slut!" or "a submissive should always kneel..." and such.


From my experience of "online" when Dominants(?) have taken that stance they are usually caught up in some kinda roleplay. It would be an orange light for me. I would be open to the fact that I mighta just caught them on a day they were having some fun and there might be the possibility of someone cool behind the writing play. If they persisted, it would turn into a red-light.

quote:

Before a submissive make her decision to submit, she is just as much as a person as any dom (i think even a submissive submit to a dom, she's still as much as a human being as her dom or any dom, but i know some people don't agree with me on that). So i think, a submissive's place in front of a dom, whom she hasn't made the decision to submit, should be equal. She should be respected the same way the dom respect any other person, submissive or not.


I think peoples confusion about the word equal stems from not really understanding that people can be unequal in roles, yet equal within the power of each others roles. I don't have to 'act' dominant to feel powerful or equal, I can feel happily equal within my submission to any dominant persona.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if i was talking to a person who had a naturally dominant personality I wouldn't feel any need to match their dominant personality with dominant attributes of my own to show I was intelligent or worthy or whatever..I could converse and interact with them submissively without feeling stupid or lacking...

I don't know if Im making sense...but hey lol



MasterFireMaam -> RE: "a submissive should know her place"...what is a submissive's place? (2/5/2007 8:18:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prettichinadoll

Well, I read that sentence a lot in profiles. Many doms say "a submissive should know her place!" and I ask, what is a submissive's place? at your feet right from the beginning even before they know you, even before you earn their respect, even before you earn the right to have them willingly kneel at your feet?

I would presume a profile is for people who doesn't know me, is a place to introduce myself. Unless a profile is specifically written for someone, it should be respectful to the general readers.

So even as a submissive, I don't appreciate the words such as "I demand respect!" or "You should know your place, slut!" or "a submissive should always kneel..." and such. Before a submissive make her decision to submit, she is just as much as a person as any dom (i think even a submissive submit to a dom, she's still as much as a human being as her dom or any dom, but i know some people don't agree with me on that). So i think, a submissive's place in front of a dom, whom she hasn't made the decision to submit, should be equal. She should be respected the same way the dom respect any other person, submissive or not.

Want to know how you guys think about this.


There are a lot who will agree, as I will. Simply look to one of these people as a potential partner and ignore the rest. They have the right to feel whatever they wish, but they're obviously not a match for you.

Master Fire



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