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A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 5:23:07 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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Does being rational and submissive work?
I’m sure I’m missing some magic not only internally, but also the experience.
Over these few years I’ve met a few others. Some have been absolutely Wonderful Humans others,
well… I’m sure I’ve also met the King’s of the Wankers too.
It’s been the rational Me that’s kept heart ache to a minimum when dealing with the Wankers and the rational Me who gave up Good relationships due to things that just couldn’t fit.
I read a thread lately where a few Dominants mentioned how they prefer sub’s with a bit of head case going on and I’ve observed where those sub’s do seem to have the key to the magic that eludes me. All I can attribute it to is my rationality. I’m not trying to put myself above anyone, Hell I know I’m not! But time and time again I find myself walking away from things that just are not solid in my mind.

Is rationality a barrier to submission?

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

Post #: 1

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 6:00:27 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Is rationality a barrier to submission?

Not to an intelligent guy. The difficulty is in finding the intelligent, quality guy.

I don't know why anyone would want a head case sub, but I've noticed that some are in long-term relationships. I shake my head and wonder how it is that they don't drive their owner crazy. I've come to the realization that their owner is probably as crazy as they are. That is the only thing that makes sense.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 2

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 6:34:41 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
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Awe, Thanks me Sister in Mudd..... I know this question is somewhat vague and difficult to understand, but of all people I knew you'd get it.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 3

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 6:37:38 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

I think most on here would agree that honesty, reality and communication are critical to a healthy relationship in this life or any other and for me being rational is one of the core ingredients to being in a healthy relationship. So to me the question is an obvious, yes a sub can and should be rational.

Dominants looking for someone irrational are often irrational themselves. They are attempting to find their Ying to their Yang. I think this often plays out when both parties has self esteem issues. A dominant looking for a submissive that will put their whole identity into being “their slave” and unconditional hero worship at all times that feeds the dominants esteem and that submissive wanting the magic pill of happiness by trying to make themselves totally new by living totally through the other’s brain and not their own. Maybe some of these relationships work but the odds are most just burn bright and then come crashing down.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 4

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:11:10 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

Is rationality a barrier to submission?

Quivver,
Being "rational" is a requirement as much as intelligence, and honesty. Looking for a "head case" or a partner who provides a daily dose of drama may be attractive to those who want a built in escape clause to any relationship formed. Who knows it may be the exit strategy of the submissive too. I never gave much time to any submissive who talked a good game, but whose behavior and actions were anything but submissive.

I never trust a person's words, so I don't view disassociated behavior as irrational. A person can say anything, representing themselves in all manner of ways. It doesn't take a person very long to learn the jargon and the internet is fertile ground for an active imagination. Real life interactions require more. A person is usually not able to "act" contrary to their nature for an extended period of time. From that perspective I don't think people behave irrationally, they are, simply put - liars.

Psycho-babble will tell you that we should define ourselves. Well, more important would be knowing yourself, let others worry about defining and labeling. If you are happy with who/what you are more likely others will be happy to be around you.

When searching for a partner many people get wrapped into labels first and want to wear them as either badges of honor or neon marketing signs. Now I view this as irrational because no matter how much self identification work a person does, and no matter how honest they are in the effort, what they are is defined by interaction with a partner. The relationship becomes the defining tool. "Irrational" then becomes worrying if someone outside the relationship doesn't agree with your label or your relationship dynamic.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 5

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:20:06 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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I'm rational. That means that doms who say jump through this hoop aren't for me. He needs to have a reason for what he's asking and it better make sense to me, otherwise I'm simply not interested. It just means you have to pick an intelligent dom who demonstrates that intelligence in how he handles his own life. Somebody who wants a sub because he can't clean his own place wouldn't get the time of day from me.

Obviously the need for him to prove that his requests are grounded in reality tends to disappear as the relationship deepens and trust grows.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 6

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:40:51 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

I read a thread lately where a few Dominants mentioned how they prefer sub’s with a bit of head case going on and I’ve observed where those sub’s do seem to have the key to the magic that eludes me.

Be glad it eludes you. What you are calling magic others would call codependent dysfunctions. Being rational just means you just filter out the wackos, and unfortunately they seem to be in the majority. So it isn't magic that is elusive at all -- it is just hard to find that special sane fella that is right for you.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 7

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:44:20 AM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
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I'm rational, damn it! I am! I am!

All joking aside, while I might, on occasion, have irrational thoughts, I do my best not to let them control my actions. I'd expect anyone, at some point, to be just a little irrational about something (yep, even the D-types), but not to the point where it becomes a significant part of their personality. Self-control is attractive to me.

I'm the type that likes to think (yeah, I spend a lot of time in my head), in the hopes that I can find a rational way of working through any issues I might have. I'd also like to think I'm, more often than not, successful in it. So I'd have to answer, "No, rationality isn't a barrier to my submission."

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 8

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:44:22 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

If rational means reality-based thought processes, then i can't see how that could possibly be contrary to submission. But there is a place and time when it is desireable to leave the logical reality behind and allow oneself to feel rather than think. i have been accused of not allowing myself to release my thoughts and give into sensation, to fly, to float to BE.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 9

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:49:56 AM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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In many cases I think irrationality could be a barrier to submission.

I typically associate irrationality in a human to be referring to irrational emotions and fears. I know for myself, the few irrational fears and emotions that I have control me rather than me controlling them. If they are in control of me, then I have a very hard time controlling myself and being obedient to his will. Thankfully they are very few and for the most part I am able to recognize that it is happening. We know the triggers that set them off and work on them.

Being someone who is more rational than not, has only enhanced my ability to submit to him.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 10

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 7:57:32 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Again, you're listening to what all these people say- but how many of them are in long term stable healthy relationships?

I'm extremely rational, people have even said to my own detriment (which may be true at times), but as with everything, I can use it as a strength.

Humans are not completely rational beings. We form ridiculous and idiotic associations within ourselves that we fight the rest of our lives to work with and enjoy life through. Whether it's thinking we're ugly when we're not, whether it's thinking we're too selfish when we're not, whether it's thinking we've failed when we haven't- I don't know a single person who doesn't have a tinge of irrationality to their lives.

As always, the issue is how do you make it work for yourself. While a lot of slaves commit the sin of overthinking- their thinking isn't necessarily rational or reasonable.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 11

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 8:48:25 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Again, you're listening to what all these people say- but how many of them are in long term stable healthy relationships?

ooooops....

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 12

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 11:51:43 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Main Entry: ra·tio·nal

Function: adjective
1 a : having reason or understanding b : relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason : REASONABLE <a rational explanation> <rational behavior>

I can think of numerous areas within relationship where the ability to be rational would be beneficial to both people involved.

1. When choosing a partner
2. In the day to day functioning of the relationship
3. During times of dispute (to seek resolution).

< Message edited by slavejali -- 2/4/2007 11:52:25 AM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 13

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 11:59:19 AM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Again, you're listening to what all these people say- but how many of them are in long term stable healthy relationships?

At least one.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 14

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 12:52:29 PM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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I don't think being rational is a barrier to much...isn't it another way of saying logical and sensible?

People aren't TOTALLY sensible and logical in every area of their personality or lives.

What is a *head case*, in your definition?

I'm logical and sensible, I'm sometimes irrational and I'm eccentric.......( though I think that's M's way of saying I'm a fruit-loop).......all in varing degrees in various areas.

People often enter relationships without sense and logic, me included, and it's sense and logic that leads them out of them again. And vice-versa....lol

agirl

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 15

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 12:57:26 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

Thank you all for your thoughts. I've gotten some good food for thought from them. Now to see if I cant put some into practice.

Thanks!

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 16

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 2:24:15 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I was far less rational when entering my relationship than I am now. I was filled with irrational fears and insecurities. I guess that would make me a "head case." Fortunately, this headcase endeared herself to her Master, because he saw past all the BS and found what I was capable of. After that it was up to me to work toward those capabilities or not. With his training, I learned to think - rationally, analytically, and thoroughly (in most cases). This has made me a better slave to him than I was over 2 years ago. What he saw in me was drive, will and potential. All I had to do was follow him and obey, and I would become the "mostly" rational (I'll likely never be fully rational, nor do I think I want to be) slave I am today. He is quite pleased with both our work. So am I!

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 17

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 5:45:45 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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One of the first questions I ask someone is what the patterns are in their vanilla relationships. I don't find much difference in what those patterns are and what they are/would be in the scene.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 18

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 6:05:01 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

Is rationality a barrier to submission?

A barrier??? hell... I would think it would be a positive contributor towards submission.

I can't see Irrationality being much of a positive force in submission

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 19

RE: A Rational Submissive? - 2/4/2007 6:36:23 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

I was thinking ...

Another reason its important to be rational when your choosing a dominant partner is...in some spaces you get into as a submissive you can become irrational..so you would want to make sure your potential dom could cope with that when that happens...so you would need to be rational to be able to work that out in the beginning. (My head is spinning did that make sense? )

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 20

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