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Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 10:57:13 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		My sub and I are very close, and we talk about everything.  He's seen me at my best times, and my absolute worst times, and of course vice versa.  We are in the process of him training to be more 24-7 than just submissive in private.  And... to make matters more interesting we have been living in separate countries for the past few months, our communication limited to telephone or MSN. 

For the most part, we are doing well, and have found ways to make the long distance work for us.  However, there are times when I am stressed or sad and he sees me in one of these "bad" moments (of course this happened when we were living together as well, so he is used to it). The problem is that it confuses him, and he sort of snaps out of his submission.  Then, when I've calmed down, and am normal again, he has problems seeing me as the dominant one. 

So my question is, does this happen a lot between Dommes and subs who have this kind of relationship, that the sub gets confused, when his Domme is upset? And have you found any solution, other than reminding your sub that his Domme is human?

Thanks
Lady Marmalade
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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 11:10:25 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		If anything, my sub sees it as one of his duties to support me emotionally when I am upset.  He would do that anyway as my partner in our relationship, regardless of lifestyle orientation.  I am also his support when he is having a difficult time. 

Perhaps ask your sub why he feels your show of emotion suddenly changes his idea of your dynamic.  Feeling stressed and sad are human emotions. and you should be able to express yourself without having to go through extra stress because your sub expects you to be strong all of the time.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 11:17:22 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Julie,

I will talk to him about it.  I'm happy to hear your sub considers it part of his duties, maybe it's only a matter of time for mine. 

Thanks again

M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 11:45:57 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		I recall a seminar at a BDSM convention which suggested rituals to constantly renew the dynamic. Perhaps a ritual might help reinstate the respective spaces and keep the roles charged.

The other point I am pondering is what would happen in similar scenarios when slavery was forced. I recognize that this scenario is different because in consensual submission how the submissive is feeling about the dominant is relevant whereas in forced slavery the submission is driven by other means. And I feel odd suggesting that we look at non-consensual slavery for ideas for consensual slavery. Still, I wonder if considering this idea might help. I am imagining what might have happened in non-consensual slavery if a slave moved out of role upon seeing an owner in a moment of vulnerability. I imagine the roles were somehow reasserted. Perhaps this general idea, and the use of rituals can help.

Other ideas rely on understanding the reason behind his change of state, and an effort by him towards how to process and perceive the moments of stress. I think overcoming this challenge requires work by him as well.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 11:51:54 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you undergroundsea,

I'm curious about what you mean by rituals.  Actually I was surprised to hear that there are seminars about BDSM.  I could certainly use one:)

I agree with you, this is something that he needs to work on as well, especially if we progress in his training.

Thanks
M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 12:17:20 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1
I'm curious about what you mean by rituals. 


By ritual I mean an activity that expresses your respective dominant and submissive roles, and which ritual would be meaningful would depend on the two of you.

One way the D/s roles are expressed are through service. An act of service that puts him in his submissive mindset (eg. washing your feet with appropriate preparation) could be such a ritual.

One way the D/s roles are expressed are through acts of subservience or what I consider D/s humiliation.

One way the D/s roles are expressed are through physical activities or SM.

One way a submissive mindset is created or deepened is by appropriate response to bring compliance (if the submissive fails to respond to an order, a response that makes him wish he had responded to the first order).

Having a domme's coffee ready when she awakens and presenting it to her while kneeling could be a daily ritual.

I have a friend who bows and kisses her master's feet to greet him when first enters his home (they live in separate cities). This is their ritual.

This suggestion also depends on how you wish to respond to moments of stress. My suggestion is more suited for a scenario where in times of stress one takes a break and then resumes the dynamic or that, at least, the dynamic is not in full force during these moments.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 12:30:16 PM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks undergroundsea, it does help, or at least answers my question.

We do have a lot of rituals in our life, but it could be that the separation has made them fewer, and that is probably something that will come together once we are together.

Your input has given me something to ponder while I fall asleep tonight.
Thanks again,
M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 12:54:36 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1

We do have a lot of rituals in our life, but it could be that the separation has made them fewer, and that is probably something that will come together once we are together.


I am glad to help.

I think I should clarify my posts further.

The context of the discussion I attended was how to not lose the dynamic in everyday life. The daily rituals are more relevant to that question.

I think rituals vary in degree. Presenting coffee as I described could be a daily ritual. An elaborate pedicure ritual would be one I see as done less frequently. For your scenario, I was envisioning a larger ritual to resume the dynamic.

Also, rituals can be helpful for long distance relationships. Kneeling before an altar or bowing in the general direction (north, south, east, west ;-) ) upon awakening could be a ritual when the dynamic is suitable (it may be meaningful for some, it may be silly for others). Protocol or standing instructions for how to respond to telephone calls (try his hardest to take the call even if momentarily to ask when he can call back) could achieve similar results.

Cheers,

Sea


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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/4/2007 1:27:08 PM   
BabyNyla


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline
I think it's a natural thing.  My Dom/husband and I have been apart for 7 months now and there are days where we're on and everything's good and other days when I am emotional and in no way submissive towards him.  Thankfully, these feelings only last a day or so and I am back on track and everything's good.
 
He has never been the one off center though ... until this weekend.  He seemed depressed and weird and he admitted to me that being in Iraq is messing him up mentally ... and I was lost.  I am used to be the emotional one and having him as the strong center to get my brain back on track.  Seeing him weak and vulnerable makes me feel kinda lost and confused.  I want to support him and help him, but I don't know how.
 
It doesn't however make me see him as less of a Dom.  But at the same time I don't feel an urge to call him sir or master and I don't feel a need to follow the rules we have in place.  It feels like there is no D/s in a sense and we're just vanilla people in a rut.


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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 5:50:38 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think initial confusion when anyone is upset is normal. If the upset person isn't us, why would we know what is going on? Heck, sometimes even the upset person may not understand that can lead to being more upset in fact.

Confusion or not I think it's an appropriate and supportive thing to ask questions and offer support regardless of role.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 6:51:50 AM   
feralcat


Posts: 116
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hey everyone. Great topic. I think it is difficult when we take D/s and incorporate it into our personal lives.Subs look to us to be all knowing,strong,unshakeable, firm, and in control ......ALL the time. Well yes that may be true MOST of the time,but I am also very human. Lady Marmalade, my sub gets to see my at my best,and at my not so good too. There are times that life really shakes us up,that we  need down time to lick our wounds or heal,regenerate ,refocus. And for the subs,this can be unnerving.

I think that is where underground sea has a great point.Rituals and protocols are really iumportant. Subs enjoy structure,familiar things.Although we may be out of sorts,the rituals and procols still must be followed.This usually helps the sub "remember" who he is ,and that just because we are having a moment,his role goes on,that you are not requiring him to take over the role of "control".

Males,by nauture,are fixers. We tell them a problem,they feel it is their job to fix it. Perhaps this is the conflict he feels.At times like that I try to explain that he is more of the "protector"...like a "guard dog" watching over me until I regroup....loyal ,devoted pet.... not the Fixer,but the guard.

I have met a new sub that truly seems to suit me,and we recently spend a very vanilla (ok,there was some kink,but isn't there always some kink? lol)weekend with my son for the first time. Afterwards we spoke about how warm and "normal" it felt. He expressed that although he really enjoys how "real" I am ,he is afraid he will allow himself to fall into "vanilla boyfriend" mode. I explained that I will not allow that to happen and plan on putting more protocols into our regular life so there is always some D/s structure in place...a gentle reminder that he is NOT my boyfriend ,but my submissive. And although .we may "role play" vanilla couiple for others, that is not who we are to each other.

Intimacy and D/s can make life challenging,but then again I enjoy the complexities.

some great advice out here...best wishes to you.

(in reply to LadyMarmalade1)
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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 10:02:05 AM   
jamesthehumanrug


Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline 		dear goddess, i hate to mention this, but, it is, not unlike seeing your mom upset ,when you are a todler ;you get upset!; hopefully ,and, this is according to training and type ;this sub ,or slave is ,not the type to "go off the deep-end" ,or you have given " special-orders ", just in case the ocassion comes up ....
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1

My sub and I are very close, and we talk about everything.  He's seen me at my best times, and my absolute worst times, and of course vice versa.  We are in the process of him training to be more 24-7 than just submissive in private.  And... to make matters more interesting we have been living in separate countries for the past few months, our communication limited to telephone or MSN. 

For the most part, we are doing well, and have found ways to make the long distance work for us.  However, there are times when I am stressed or sad and he sees me in one of these "bad" moments (of course this happened when we were living together as well, so he is used to it). The problem is that it confuses him, and he sort of snaps out of his submission.  Then, when I've calmed down, and am normal again, he has problems seeing me as the dominant one. 

So my question is, does this happen a lot between Dommes and subs who have this kind of relationship, that the sub gets confused, when his Domme is upset? And have you found any solution, other than reminding your sub that his Domme is human?

Thanks
Lady Marmalade


< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 2/5/2007 10:03:50 AM >

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 11:19:07 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		First BabyNyla, Thank you for your input.  I understand what it is like to be apart.  I do think your situation is harder than my own and I wish you all the luck in the world.  I was an army brat, and I know how hard it was for my mother when my father was posted in the gulf.

Your husband will be effected very strongly from Iraq, and it will be hard for both of you, not just in a Dom/sub way, but in other ways.  I'm not sure about in the states, but in Canada there are family resource centers that can help with you dealing with your husband's depression, even if they are not kink friendly, I'm sure any help would be helpful.

I do with you luck, and I am sure there are others even here on CM who are in the same special situation, maybe seeking them out could help.

Thanks again and good luck,
Lady M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 11:27:07 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you Tammy Jo,

Coca and I have been discussing what made me upset, and what he could have done different to be slightly more supportive.  I think that the distance between us makes it hard for him because he feels he can't really do much to make me feel better when we are online.

I think this is just another thing that we will figure out as time goes on.

Thanks,
Lady M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 11:33:02 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Dear feralcat,

You're right (like undergroundsea) subs do need the rituals, and like you say, they do need the structure, I guess just like any of us. 

I also have to learn to keep those structures up, even when I'm having a bad moment.  I liked the way you put it.  I try to have coca read everything that I find interesting so he understands my side too.  Now I have to make sure he reads your post and understands it :)

Thanks again
Lady M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 2:53:29 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1

Dear feralcat,

You're right (like undergroundsea) subs do need the rituals, and like you say, they do need the structure, I guess just like any of us.

I also have to learn to keep those structures up, even when I'm having a bad moment. I liked the way you put it. I try to have coca read everything that I find interesting so he understands my side too. Now I have to make sure he reads your post and understands it :)

Thanks again
Lady M



One way to do this is not by adding more rituals but to only have those rituals that really feel part of you and start to seem normal and routine. Then even when someone is upset, you still go with that flow and can ask for support when you need it or offer support.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/5/2007 4:37:03 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		What about thanking him for being so supportive when you were down and telling him straight out that you're your usual self now. If you aren't telling him when you've recovered/snapped out of it, he may not know if he should still be actively supportive or be waiting for you to decide what you're doing.

If you were together, you would be asking for a hug, and when you felt better say "Something like, thanks I feel better now. Please go get me an iced tea and then rub my feet" Which would show him how you feel and where you were emotionally at that time. Being separated, he isn't getting the cues he needs and is probably confused.

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/6/2007 3:12:18 AM   
LadyMarmalade1


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline 		Dear Celeste43,

You're right.  I always thank him for being supportive, which in geral he is.  But I do need to be more clear when I am feeling better so that he understands that I'm back to normal.

Thanks

Lady M

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/6/2007 4:43:26 AM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		When Im in a funk, I try to let my sub know as soon as I do, but this takes a conscious effort on my part.  Then, I explain that it has nothing to do with her and that it's not about her this time, but all about me.  I let her know what she needs to do, whether it's give me my space, sit on the floor close to me so I can rub her neck,  massage my feet . . . whatever.  I find that if I dont give her an active part, she feels lost in her service to me.  Then, I feel the need to console her and my needs are not met.  In the past, this angered me because I thought she was being selfish until I learned to speak up and make her an active part of the solution.  Unfortunately, there are times when I forget to do all this and my sub is confused unless I communicate what I need and want from her. 

I love the look of confusion on my subs face when thats the response Im going for.  However, when I see that look and it is not intended, I know I have more work to do and welcome the opportunity for both of us to grow, as individuals and as a couple. 

best to you
LBO

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RE: Emotions causing confusion - 2/6/2007 9:25:53 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I have a known a woman for some time who has a 24/7 with her submissive who is live in.. They share custody of children, run a business together etc.. during the week things get busy and d/s is often pushed to the side. One of the kids ends up in the emergency, there is a business crisis that needs to be dealt with so the energy flow isnt always as constant as they both would like it.  However, they have a ritual that begins friday at sundown..sort of like the Jewish Sabbat.  He sleeps on the floor of their bedroom to remind him exactly what his place is in the heirarchy of the family unit. He is her personal servant and servants traditionally slept accross the doorway of their Master's lodging. They do that both nights of the weekend and then come Sunday night when life is about to get hectic again he gets to sleep within the confines of her bed. He is however patently aware again that it is her bed and he sleeps there on her good graces.



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“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

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