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Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 2:07:28 AM

audioguy58

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/7/2004
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http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0202-26.htm

I wish my dad were still around to see this one. I think he would have enjoyed it.

Sincerely,
Kevin

<< You know your empire’s crumbling when just about your entire military land force is tied up in a worse-than-useless war launched on the basis of complete fabrications, that every day is actually making you less – not more – secure from external threat.

You know your empire’s crumbling when a rag-tag military hodge-podge of irregulars has you pinned down in an endless fight you can’t win, but also can’t lose.

You know your empire’s crumbling when almost half the soldiers in that war are high-paid mercenaries, and you don’t dare institute a draft.

You know your empire’s crumbling when you can’t even pull off the hanging of a tin-pot murderous former dictator without turning him into a hero.

You know your empire’s crumbling when the World Health Organization ranks your healthcare system 37th ‘best’ in the world, just above Slovenia, and just below Costa Rica. (And far below Colombia, Cyprus, Saudi Arabia and Morocco.)

You know your empire’s crumbling when the predatory class has taken over your government and is stripping the country of everything not bolted down to the floor. And then it sells the floor itself, as well, to your rivals.

You know your empire’s crumbling when people are getting more religious and less scientific, not the other way around.

You know your empire’s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.

>>

Post #: 1

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 4:40:26 AM

OffTheBeatenTrak

Posts: 116
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

You know your empire’s crumbling when you start voting based on who is the worst in an effort to try and keep them out, because you don't have faith in any of them to actually do a good job and forfill there promises.

Being British i can say, been there done that, just not with such style and determination... If you had just asked us, you too by now could of had half your laws and regulations imposed by other countries. Lol..

(in reply to audioguy58)

Post #: 2

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 5:17:47 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

I wonder how many times we are going to be subjected to the same old tired blather. It reappears on this forum with annoying regularity in some form or other.

Show us that you can do better. That is why I do not bitch about my government. I could not do any better if I tried and I refuse to join the ever increasing ranks of the armchair quarterbarcks.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to OffTheBeatenTrak)

Post #: 3

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 5:39:40 AM

TheHousehold

Posts: 33
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline

You know your empire is crumbling when you have to get out of bed first to make your own cup of tea.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 4

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:36:40 AM

OffTheBeatenTrak

Posts: 116
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I wonder how many times we are going to be subjected to the same old tired blather. It reappears on this forum with annoying regularity in some form or other.

Show us that you can do better. That is why I do not bitch about my government. I could not do any better if I tried and I refuse to join the ever increasing ranks of the armchair quarterbarcks.

Politics is always going to be debated in some form or manor affraid. Due to the fact that most political decisions filter through to the poeple, not to mention the mass coverage by the media. Although i agree some times it is like a broken record, that's the nature of politics.

Unfortunatly for anyone to show they can do better they would need either, lots of money or a high profile which most of us do not have, also they would not be able to get a high profile by staying quiet. I do agree that you can not please every one all the time and there will always be a number of people that will voice criticism no matter which way the decisions are made.

Even though some peoples views may be critical in nature does that really mean they should not express them views. I find it amussing that you would moan about other people moaning.

< Message edited by OffTheBeatenTrak -- 2/5/2007 8:48:30 AM >

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 5

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:48:39 AM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I wonder how many times we are going to be subjected to the same old tired blather. It reappears on this forum with annoying regularity in some form or other.

Show us that you can do better. That is why I do not bitch about my government. I could not do any better if I tried and I refuse to join the ever increasing ranks of the armchair quarterbarcks.

You know your empire is crumbling when it's citizens retreat from informed opinion and reasoned debate into denial, and blind faith in their "betters".

Your "government" is just a bunch of yahoos, no smarter than you, just more ambitious - what makes their ambitions more sacred than yours?

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 6

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:55:51 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

When they play Concrete and Clay on the Radio----

Oh, Oh...that was the mid 60's...

Jerry Mander

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 7

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 9:09:15 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

When incompetent "C-grade" managers at the White House think they're competent to dictate military tactics to the deployed units.

Perhaps the White House should have people in it who SERVED. I think the most telling thing is the lack of service of the Bush and Cheney Children.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 8

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 9:52:18 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

General response, related to presentation ...

Conclusions, without supporting data, would get you laughed out of class here at Rice.

This guy is a professor at Hofstra?

Send your children elsewhere.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 9

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 2:47:52 PM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I wonder how many times we are going to be subjected to the same old tired blather. It reappears on this forum with annoying regularity in some form or other.

Show us that you can do better. That is why I do not bitch about my government. I could not do any better if I tried and I refuse to join the ever increasing ranks of the armchair quarterbarcks.

You know your empire is crumbling when it's citizens retreat from informed opinion and reasoned debate into denial, and blind faith in their "betters".

Your "government" is just a bunch of yahoos, no smarter than you, just more ambitious - what makes their ambitions more sacred than yours?

Do not get the wrong impression. I do not retreat into the shadows...but for some reason I find it pointless to beat a dead horse. Far more fun to beat a living person.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to Amaros)

Post #: 10

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 3:17:48 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

What a wonderful post! I am going to save this and read it several times, I know fargle is enjoying this one.

Is this live really or is it memorex or just a damn bad dream? When the hell do we wake up?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to audioguy58)

Post #: 11

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 5:42:38 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I wonder how many times we are going to be subjected to the same old tired blather. It reappears on this forum with annoying regularity in some form or other.

Show us that you can do better. That is why I do not bitch about my government. I could not do any better if I tried and I refuse to join the ever increasing ranks of the armchair quarterbarcks.

Well said (although, I have to add...there does seem to be a lot to armchair about these days)

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 12

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 5:46:02 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

There is a book I am in the process of reading that my Daddy gave me called American Theocracy which talks about energy, the rise of empires in the last few centuries, and their demise once the more favored energy source of the day is improved upon. We are running out of petrol, and our empire is fading. Our military might being stretched like it is, just a symptom of the larger problem.

I will be posting more about this book as the opportunity arises and I get through it. Really interesting read, but rather dense and text book-like in some ways.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to audioguy58)

Post #: 13

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 6:14:14 PM

Invictus754

Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: audioguy58
You know your empire’s crumbling when your political leaders start to be chosen by dynastic rules of succession.

Wouldn't dynastic succession be a sign of a good empire?

All of this sounds like someone regurgitating sound bites they heard because it sounded good, not because it is valid. You don't have one number in your quote. "Just about your entire force" isn't a number.

"Rag-tag forces" don't use rocket propelled grenades and heat-seeking missiles smuggled in from Iran.

If "half the soldiers in the war" are mercenaries, doesn't that mean that three-quarters of our troops are safe at home - and could be used to crush the insurgency if we just put them to good use (provided Congress doesn't tuck its tail between its legs - but instead grows a pair of real balls like real men)?

Our healthcare system may be ranked 37th in the world, but that is only because we provide billions of dollars (that is BILLIONS or thousands of millions) in health care support for scores of other less fortunate countries. We could have free health care for every fucking American if we wanted to be selfish pricks. However, we are not.

I could go on, but it is no use.

< Message edited by Invictus754 -- 2/5/2007 6:16:06 PM >

_____________________________

You never know your limits, until you push them
If slavery is a gift, the Africans were pretty fucking generous in the 1700 and 1800s, weren't they?

(in reply to audioguy58)

Post #: 14

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 7:23:15 PM

WyrdRich

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

When the hecklers get a veto and the unemployable get to vote?

(in reply to audioguy58)

Post #: 15

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 7:31:27 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

When the hecklers get a veto and the unemployable get to vote?

Who exactly are the "unemployable"?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 16

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 7:35:23 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

"Rag-tag forces" don't use rocket propelled grenades and heat-seeking missiles smuggled in from Iran.

Rag-tag forces also do not hide behind walls and kill the most professional and well-trained army in the world, despite their propensity for fighting in lines of men wearing red uniforms with white X's on them.

Wait, umm,

Move along, nothing to see here.

Sinergy

p.s. My main political ideology about the entire past 40 years is "dude, we have seen this movie already and know how it ends."

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 17

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:08:39 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I will agree that we are not fighting only "rag tag" forces that is obvious. With all our military intelligence, can't the USA find out
exactly WHO is behind them and WHO is supporting and sending them to fight us?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 18

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:36:14 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I will agree that we are not fighting only "rag tag" forces that is obvious. With all our military intelligence, can't the USA find out
exactly WHO is behind them and WHO is supporting and sending them to fight us?

For the sake of argument, lets assume that the United States builds a 93 foot wall of barbed wire with 200 meters of minefields and prevents anybody from a neighboring country doing anything in Iraq.

Car bombs still go off. There are huge stockpiles of explosives which the United States military failed to secure. There is a population in that country who, while they definitely hate each other, hate the United States even more. Most of these people were regulars in Hussein's army and have weapons stockpiled.

So we (the US) drive around in our tanks, our humvees, our whatever, and continue to be blown up.

The only significant difference is now the current administration can no longer blame the neighboring countries for "inciting insubordination" in Iraq.

Any guesses what Monkeyboy's next excuse will be?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 19

RE: Signs Your Empire Is Crumbling - 2/5/2007 8:43:30 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I will agree that we are not fighting only "rag tag" forces that is obvious. With all our military intelligence, can't the USA find out
exactly WHO is behind them and WHO is supporting and sending them to fight us?

For the sake of argument, lets assume that the United States builds a 93 foot wall of barbed wire with 200 meters of minefields and prevents anybody from a neighboring country doing anything in Iraq.

Car bombs still go off. There are huge stockpiles of explosives which the United States military failed to secure. There is a population in that country who, while they definitely hate each other, hate the United States even more. Most of these people were regulars in Hussein's army and have weapons stockpiled.

So we (the US) drive around in our tanks, our humvees, our whatever, and continue to be blown up.

The only significant difference is now the current administration can no longer blame the neighboring countries for "inciting insubordination" in Iraq.

Any guesses what Monkeyboy's next excuse will be?

Sinergy

Great point! One of the questions is then, "How many are we fighting that are already in Iraq that hate the USA vs. the numbers we are
fighting that are coming from outside of Iraq?" I would love to know general percentages and that would answer a lot of questions!
If the majority of the forces we are fighting are homegrown and from Iraq, why the hell are we over there?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 20

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