RE: Lower the voting age to 10

RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:00:16 PM)
There's only one end of a birch thats any fun, switch or not! Mind you, isnt a birch a sort of switch too? Hmmm. Things to ponder...... there must be some zen solution to that E

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:03:01 PM)
Hmmm.... maybe we should join hands and chant a montra... Yama yama yama... yama yama yama... yama yama yama.... I still feel good about the birch switch.

MsPoetress -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorgrom quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver If anyone needs punishing it is the adults that have failed the juveniles. Close, if anyone needs to be punished it is the society that hinders the parents ability to punish the children. Which by the way is whats happening. Society is paying for decades of the corner time BS. Corner time did nothing for anyone I know who is not an adult. If the child in question was getting in trouble and only got the corner time/time out/soft approach. Most of them have continued along that path. The kids whos parents did spank them. Did hold the child accountible for their actions. Have grown up to be productive members of scoiety. WRONG! The BTK KIller was spanked, and I don't think he turned out to be productive member of society. ~poe

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:12:38 PM)
I am sure Bundy was a spoiled brat and Hitler... there is too much intrigue involved there to use him as an example.

humiliationsissy -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:16:42 PM)
As a middle school teacher who has had experience with children from both the inner city and suburban enviroment I believe I have a bit more insight into this issue than most. While we like to think of and remember these children as being so innocent and not being able to tell the different between right and wrong, the fact is that is not true in the least. Children of this age, at least those 12 and beyond and many who younger, fully understand the difference between right and wrong. When they perform an illegal activity they know what they are doing is 100% wrong and many of them pray on the tolerance of society to allow them to continue to get away with it because "they didn't know any better." I would love to see the statistics of juvenile offenders who were not prosecuted as adults and what happened to them afterward. i am guessing that most of them are repeat offenders. Without a doubt these "innocent children" need to be prosecuted like any other person because the victims of these crimes are not any less affected whether they are commited by and adult or someone who is 12. BTW, most people who are 30 are too dumb to vote and should have their privilege taken away. Lowering the age below 18 would be ingorance at its best. And yes I did say voting is a privilege, not a right (just ask the felons who no longer have it). Too many people who have no clue about whats going on in the world or their own country and only look for the D or the R beside the candidate's name are the things that really fuck up our country.

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:23:21 PM)
Interesting. And to think a person like you is molding the youth of tomorrow.

MsPoetress -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:25:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld I am sure Bundy was a spoiled brat and Hitler... there is too much intrigue involved there to use him as an example. No Bundy was born to an unwed mother. She was a dept store clerk and his father was not in the picture. He was adopted by his grand parents until his mother took him and moved around with him. ~poe

aSlavesLife -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:27:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsPoetress quote: ORIGINAL: Lorgrom quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver If anyone needs punishing it is the adults that have failed the juveniles. Close, if anyone needs to be punished it is the society that hinders the parents ability to punish the children. Which by the way is whats happening. Society is paying for decades of the corner time BS. Corner time did nothing for anyone I know who is not an adult. If the child in question was getting in trouble and only got the corner time/time out/soft approach. Most of them have continued along that path. The kids whos parents did spank them. Did hold the child accountible for their actions. Have grown up to be productive members of scoiety. WRONG! I am sure Ted Bundy or Adolf Hitler were spanked, and I don't think they turned out to be productive members of society. ~poe So we should incarcerate ( punish ) Bundy's parents? WRONG! First up, Ted was raised more by his grandfather than by his mother. His father was not in the picture. Gramps was a tyranical, racist old coot that probably had more than a little influnce on the little bugger. That is nothing at all like spanking his psychotic ass. Hitler on the other hand had a coddling, weak willed mother that let the little shit leave school when he was flunking. His father was of the opposite mind and would violently and savagely beat him for disobedience. So, you have white aryan dictator grandpaw Bundy, spineless, doting mamma Hitler, and abusive asshole alcoholic father Hitler. None of these can be seen as disciplinarians. You bleeding hearts really should do your homework every once in a while.

thompsonx -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:31:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorgrom quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver If anyone needs punishing it is the adults that have failed the juveniles. Close, if anyone needs to be punished it is the society that hinders the parents ability to punish the children. Which by the way is whats happening. Society is paying for decades of the corner time BS. Corner time did nothing for anyone I know who is not an adult. If the child in question was getting in trouble and only got the corner time/time out/soft approach. Most of them have continued along that path. The kids whos parents did spank them. Did hold the child accountible for their actions. Have grown up to be productive members of scoiety. Of course most parents anymore grew up in households where they themselves were only subjected to the time out mentality. So how did they learn how to tell when a stern grounding would do the trick vs a one time slap on the butt? Yes you still need to guard against abuse. But the USA as gone way to far. A parent fears slapping a child across the butt. Becouse the kids say things like "if you hit me I will tell my teacher/friends parents/police". That is where the real failure is. Give the power back to the parents. Teach the parents when grounding is approperate and when a spanking is in order. Rather then the goverment agencies, whos people are always looking (and many times make) for the abuser (even though the defination of abuse has gotten more and more encumpasing). There is a lot of logic to the statement. A child should fear and respect their parents. A parents job is not to be the childs friend. But rather a protector and teacher. Lorgrom: It is not against the law to spank your children in the U.S, It is against the law to beat your children and the courts have shown that they understand the difference. As an example I used to live next door to some people and the day the 15 year old told his mom he was going to report her for spanking him she put him in the car and took him to the police station and took him inside and told him to report her to the sergent behind the desk. The sergent listened to the young man and when he got to the part about why..."all I did was take the car out for a spin" ... the sergent explained what GTA (grand theft auto) ment and said he would be willing to take the mothers complaint against the child for GTA but that spanking did not rise to conditions for child abuse so he was not going to allow the mother to be charged. That was the last time the child was ever spanked or needed to be spanked. This happened in Costa Mesa California in the mid 80s thompson

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:34:57 PM)
Actually it was against the law to spank your child in Oklahoma for a number of years.

MsPoetress -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:48:12 PM)
quote: So we should incarcerate ( punish ) Bundy's parents? WRONG! I didn't say "If anyone needs punishing it is the adults that have failed the juveniles." that was meatcleaver. What I am trying to point out was what Lorgorm said was untrue. quote: The kids whos parents did spank them. Did hold the child accountible for their actions. Have grown up to be productive members of scoiety. I did my homework, and edited my last statement so that it was more accurate, because I could not find proof of Bundy and Hitler being spanked. ~poe

humiliationsissy -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:50:43 PM)
Yeah dumbass, a person like me is molding our children. A responsible person with a bachelor and Masters, who respects the laws and the people who live in the society, one who left a cushy suburban teaching job (of my own will) to teach inner city kids because I hoped to make an impact on them, one who runs 2 after school programs and sponsors friday night activities to keep the kids out of trouble. Its a real shame that someone like me is molding the youth of tomorrow isn't it? Now before you open your mouth, how about opening some books and getting past your 10th grade education? Until you have any experience with children other than your own or those in your family, but ones that you can be objective about, then you can get back to me. But until then, shut your mouth and stop making yourself seem even dumber than you already have. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. I'm guessing you were a little asshole growing up, getting into lots of trouble, picking on kids smaller than you and getting into lots of trouble with the law. Now no doubt you are a positive influence on society today (that was sarcasm, since you are probably too dumb to realize) and you want to make sure that other kids like you get to grow up outside of prison so that can be great role models like you. Talk to me when you get a fucking education, until then, i'll be ignoring you. btw- People like you are the cancer that eats away at today's society.

MsPoetress -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:50:44 PM)
http://familyrightsassociation.com/info/spanking_laws.htm

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:54:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: humiliationsissy Yeah dumbass, a person like me is molding our children. A responsible person with a bachelor and Masters, who respects the laws and the people who live in the society, one who left a cushy suburban teaching job (of my own will) to teach inner city kids because I hoped to make an impact on them, one who runs 2 after school programs and sponsors friday night activities to keep the kids out of trouble. Its a real shame that someone like me is molding the youth of tomorrow isn't it? Now before you open your mouth, how about opening some books and getting past your 10th grade education? Until you have any experience with children other than your own or those in your family, but ones that you can be objective about, then you can get back to me. But until then, shut your mouth and stop making yourself seem even dumber than you already have. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. I'm guessing you were a little asshole growing up, getting into lots of trouble, picking on kids smaller than you and getting into lots of trouble with the law. Now no doubt you are a positive influence on society today (that was sarcasm, since you are probably too dumb to realize) and you want to make sure that other kids like you get to grow up outside of prison so that can be great role models like you. Talk to me when you get a fucking education, until then, i'll be ignoring you. btw- People like you are the cancer that eats away at today's society. Wow that really changed my opinion.

thompsonx -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 1:56:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: humiliationsissy As a middle school teacher who has had experience with children from both the inner city and suburban enviroment I believe I have a bit more insight into this issue than most. While we like to think of and remember these children as being so innocent and not being able to tell the different between right and wrong, the fact is that is not true in the least. Children of this age, at least those 12 and beyond and many who younger, fully understand the difference between right and wrong. When they perform an illegal activity they know what they are doing is 100% wrong and many of them pray on the tolerance of society to allow them to continue to get away with it because "they didn't know any better." I would love to see the statistics of juvenile offenders who were not prosecuted as adults and what happened to them afterward. i am guessing that most of them are repeat offenders. Without a doubt these "innocent children" need to be prosecuted like any other person because the victims of these crimes are not any less affected whether they are commited by and adult or someone who is 12. BTW, most people who are 30 are too dumb to vote and should have their privilege taken away. Lowering the age below 18 would be ingorance at its best. And yes I did say voting is a privilege, not a right (just ask the felons who no longer have it). Too many people who have no clue about whats going on in the world or their own country and only look for the D or the R beside the candidate's name are the things that really fuck up our country. humiliationsissy: As a middle school teacher perhaps you could tell us the origins of disenfranchisement of felons. It is my understanding that less than 10% of the first american citizens were enfranchised. I am curious to know what purpose is served by disenfranchisement. How far should it be taken....should the felon not be allowed to write letters to the editor.....or speak in public on issues of common interest.be deported to any country who might be willing to take them? Perhaps we should bring back public floggings? Your opinions please. thompson

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 2:20:10 PM)
Well Thompsonx I think you humiliated him into leaving.

Gauge -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 2:37:45 PM)
If we lower the voting age to ten then we would be able to have politicians that are the age ten as well. Wait... We already have adult politicians with a mental age of ten... nevermind.

calamitysandra -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 2:40:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Germany is already thinking about giving children as young as 10 the vote. Not seriously. It sometimes comes up as an odball idea to give parents an extra vote per child, but that is just utopia and not going to happen. As for spanking, I personally have not found that it does any good. As a mother of three kids who grow up spanking free, and as a spanked child, I can attest that my aproach works better for us.

Wulfchyld -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 2:40:35 PM)
Glad you caught the redundancy there Gauge, before the Old Guard Grammar Nazi’s got ya. Anal rape with a dictionary... now that would suck.

rosanegra -> RE: Lower the voting age to 10 (2/6/2007 2:45:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver 1. Harsh penalties only create harder criminals. 2. Locking someone up is more expensive than education and rehabilitation. Juvenile offenders exist because adult society has failed. If adults got their own house in order there wouldn't be so many juvenile offenders. If anyone needs punishing it is the adults that have failed the juveniles. The problem with punishing the adults is that their hands have already been tied. Thanks to bleeding hearts, disciplinary actions of children by their parent is now often criminal. If you are going to punish the adult, at least give them back the right to bend the little brat over their knee and spank their ass. Honestly, when I was a child, a parent would not hesitate to smack a rugrat on the ass for throwning a temper tantrum in a grocery store. Perhaps this is why my generation was not inclined to gun down fellow students out of annoyance. These days we are told that instead of punishing them, we should reward positive behavior. So if little Timmy goes to school 3 days in a row, we are supposed to buy him a new Nintendo game. Excuse me, but bullshit! The little monster is SUPPOSED to go to school! We don't get rewarded for what we are SUPPOSED to do. We don't get pulled over by a police officer and get handed a $20 for obeying the speed limit, but we damned sure get fined for breaking it. The problem is that parents don't discipline their children. They just spank/beat them. They don't explain why something is bad, they just provide negative reinforcement. Who here has heard a parent answer with, "Because I said so." when a child asks why they shouldn't or should do something. Why don't we give our children real answers? I personally was raised in a very abusive environment. The fact that I didn't end up a criminal surprises me. There is a certain point at which a line must be drawn between punishment and and abuse. There is a place in which we can teach our children how to behave without instilling in them the idea that violence is how you teach people. I would argue that kids shooting other kids is because they think that is how you show someone they are wrong - by hurting them. I would argue that a solution to truancy in school is to make school more effective. As someone who fought for every inch of actual "education" I got in school, I can tell you that the current system we have is not working. Why should we force our children to endure a system that is inadequate? Why the hell shouldn't we reward them for putting up with it? As for your example of punishment of speeding on the roads... You made my point very well for me. People get fined for speeding. They do it anyway, because the consequences are acceptable in return for the payoff. Do you think people would speed anymore if there was a possibility of them being pulled over and handed a $20 bill for going the speed limit? Hmmmmmmm.... we may be onto something here... The current system isn't working. Time to think of new solutions.

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