RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (Full Version)

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Lorelei115 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/7/2007 11:11:41 PM)

Okay, that's crossing the line.



heartfeltsub -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 3:35:51 AM)

Maybe the term consider was not the best term for what i was trying to say, however the point that i was trying to make remains the same, why do some allow or minimize disobedience and non-submissive behavior because of hormonal changes that occur during pregnancy or having a period. Why do some submissives and Doms feel this is a valid "reason" for disobedience, that is what i am trying to get an answer on.

* Editted for typo

heartfelt



bandit25 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 3:48:01 AM)

I sure hope you were joking about that.  Actually, it's not funny even if you were joking.



Celeste43 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 6:45:39 AM)

Heartfelt, I'm assuming you haven't been pregnant. You haven't ever been weepy and afraid living with a man who is equally afraid of all of the changes life is suddenly bringing. Nobody spends nine months with their body invaded by an alien without a lot of fear and mood changes, nobody. And the one thing common to every heavily pregnant woman is to look in the mirror and be depressed. Be depressed by the fact that she can't tie her own shoes, be depressed and embarrassed by the fact she can no longer eat without dropping things on her bosom because her belly makes her sit two feet away from the table and you need a tablecloth not a napkin to cover it.

And a man who watches his wife cry because her skin's breaking out and she is wearing ugly maternity clothes and does not reassure her that she still is attractive to him, does not have sex with her, but instead says she isn't capable of satisfying him due to the fact that she's carrying his baby and therefore he'll go screw around is a stupid man. One who is lucky he didn't get hit with a frying pan.

My ex told me that he found my body changes unattractive. He was polite, used I messages etc but it was devastating. Had he followed that by having sex with someone else or planning to, and I'm not sure we would have made one year let alone twenty.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 7:28:49 AM)

Actually one could hypothesize that the reason the dom hasn't done anything about all this rule breaking is BECAUSE of the pregnancy and giving her a lot of leeway and room to breathe and didn't quite know how to respond to all her rule breaking.

I happen to agree that deciding to break rules just because a person is pregnant is wrong unless the rules will somehow put the pregnancy in danger (and I really doubt that happened here).  The woman IS wrong to have broken the rules, and it cannot be excused just for being pregnant.

That being said, again I will say that I think there's some serious relationship flaws on all sides here and they need to be addressed before any of the "traditional behavioral modification steps" can become effective.



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 7:57:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I happen to agree that deciding to break rules just because a person is pregnant is wrong...


So would I, but that is not what I am defending.  I think they both just 'fell down' here.



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 8:08:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

I sure hope you were joking about that.  Actually, it's not funny even if you were joking.


It was not meant to be funny.  That was extremely pointed sarcasm.  It was meant to bite hard.



RiotGirl -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 8:15:13 AM)

i think you're right Obey. 

Celeste43, i agree as well.  Except i wouldnt stick around. 

Pregnancy isnt always fun.  Think the movie Alien.  Now, if some one had some little creature in their chest that was going to explode out - i'd not give them much crap either.  There is enough crap to deal with while pregnant.  Who wants to deal with extra?  Screwwwwwwwww that. 

if i was in the girls shoes (which obviously i havent a clue what her shoes are) i would be out.  I would be giving birth in a foriegn country.  Like i said, screw the BS - there's enough while pregnant.  But then maybe i'm just pregnant and feeling bitchy.  ::smiles::  But i doubt it. 



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 8:43:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

why do some allow or minimize disobedience and non-submissive behavior because of hormonal changes...?


Allow or minimize doesn't really cover it.  Pennance can always be paid later.  Kicking your wife to the curb during a pregnancy would not be the answer.  Wearing a chastity belt would be difficult since they go around the waist and could interfere with her ability to pee the 70x per day she might have to.

I am trying to EXPLAIN the behavior, not minimize it, or allow it.  The OP agreed that with a second conversation with the Dom that He in fact appears to be the more confused party here.  They'll get through it but not without alot of work and finding the solution that is good for them.

Maybe micromanagement will get them though.  Make a list, have her freely admidt her times of need, and if He is absent she must make a tickmark or check for the times she is going to disobey.  When they both finally re-appear on the other side of the birth and things start getting back to 'normal' they have alot of makeup work to do.

There are literally hundreds of ways to resolve the issue without permanent damage to the relationship, or their child.

And as a postscript, yes, the child would hear the percussion, feel the whole body tense, hear the scream or 'release' and then be subjected to adrenaline in the bloodstream.  Too many hard contractions like that and she could go into premature labor or break her water, etc.  As Scotty would say (especially since this is their first pregancy together..)

"It's justt nott ssafe, Captain!"



sublizzie -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 8:52:53 AM)

~fast reply~

Being pregnant can release hormones that make one very VERY horny. If she's breaking celibacy restrictions and he's too afraid to be sexual with her for fear of injuring the fetus, they both need some educating. And some men see pregnant women as "mother" so they just can't be husband to them.

First pregnancies are hard on everyone involved. It would probably help both people if they got some good education and *talked* to each other. Ye gads. If you're bringing a child into the world together, there's a whole lot of stuff that needs to be discussed and dealt with. That's part of why we're supplied with 9 months (or so) to deal with the changes. Sounds like they need to do some heavy-duty talking.



heartfeltsub -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 8:56:29 AM)

Yes i've been pregnant, twice in fact. i have experienced the hormonal changes and am currently pre-menopausal and dealing with all of that, i just don't think that being pregnant is a reason to be disobedient. Yes her hormones are out of whack, she may be more horny than normal, talk about those things, don't simply disobey, is my point.

* Editted because i can't type

heartfelt



LaTigresse -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 9:00:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Yes i've been pregnant, twice in fact. i have experienced the hormonal changes and am certainly pre-menopausal and dealing with all of that, i just don't think that being pregnant is a reason to be disobedient. Yes her hormones are out of whack, she may be more horny than normal, talk about those things, don't simply disobey, is my point.


That is kinda what I was thinking myself in reading through this thread. I wonder if committed some sort of crime like armed robbery, and then used the defense "but but but, I am menopausal, I am allowed to not obey the law"..........do you think that would work?



heartfeltsub -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 9:00:38 AM)

 If you re-read my posts, you will find that i NEVER advocated kicking her to the curb for disobedience. i have repeatedly said that she had the responsibility to take whatever she was feeling and communicate that with her Master/Husband instead of taking matters into her own hands and choosing to disobey every rule that He had put in place. Nor have i advocated making her wear a chastity belt, all i have advocated is honest communication and personal responsiblity for one's own feelings and emotions, no matter how out of whack they might be.

heartfelt



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 9:50:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

i NEVER advocated kicking her to the curb for disobedience... Nor ...a chastity belt



Yes, I know, those were not directed at you.



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 9:53:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
....like armed robbery....



So now we're comparing masturbation to armed robbery.....I guess.....she had to have used her arms.... [sm=ofcourse.gif]



LaTigresse -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 10:03:00 AM)

No, we are not comparing masturbation to armed robbery. We (at least some of us) are talking about structure and rules. Personally I know that hormones can be difficult, hense my tag line. BUT to use the hormones as an EXCUSE for consistantly and explicitly disobeying a directive is wrong.

Let me try and spell this out a bit more clearly.

If her master/husband/whatever he is now, told her to wash the dishes at 9AM every day but she just happened to be in the bathroom puking because of morning sickness and couldn't get to the dishes until 2PM and was afraid to tell him. To me, that makes sense and her pregnancy is a good reason to not accomplish the task exactly as directed. In my opinion it would be his problem that she could not have said something to him alot sooner and asked for a different time schedule.

Uncontrollable masterbation on the other hand......puuuuulllllleeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzz. Thats like making an exuse for a little boy playing with his willy in the school classroom. "But teacher I was hornyyyyyyy!". If she doesn't have any more self control than that they have much bigger problems. Unless of course she was.....oh I don't know..........doing it in her sleep??



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 10:06:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: destinykitty

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the comments on this issue silly me didn't expect so many - both good and bad positive and negative its what I like about forums like this.

Now an update on my friends.
They are still talking and have decided that adding a third is not happening any time soon. They are spending time together in a vanilla sense and are working on their marrage and while he is not taking her collar they are going to take a break from that side of their lives until after baby is born then they will see if they want to be Master slave still or just vanilla who does some kinky things every so often to spice up their sex life. I saw them both for a little while this morning and to be honest they seemed more in love with each other then I have seen them in a long long time.




Just wanted to repost this as I think it was lost on most of us a few pages ago....



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 10:17:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Uncontrollable masterbation on the other hand......



I do not think it is uncontrollable.  She kept it a secret for three months.

Just as a sidenote, who here in THEORY would ever take a rule and reverse it as one method of re-establishing control?

Example:  You catch your child smoking cigarettes so you make them smoke a whole pack chain-style in front of you.

Applied:  You want to masturbate 3x per day?  Fine, you will do it at 9a.m. (after you puke) 2 p.m. (after the dishes) and then when I return home you will give me a show at 7 p.m. and do it in front of me on my command and you will not stop until I tell you to stop.

Would that be effective in any given case? (I already have my opinion, just looking for others)



LaTigresse -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 10:24:54 AM)

I refuse to argue in circles.

I have expressed my opinion. If you don't like it or find it rediculous that is your perogative.

By your theory, keeping something secret means anything is not uncontrolled. By that theory an alchoholic is not an alchoholic if they hide it. However that is too far off topic to pursue.

Personally, if someone disobeys a direct order I have given them, either in my personal life or here at work, it is an infraction wether I know immediately or 6 months later. In addition, I would also feel like it was a failure on MY part that they needed to keep it a secret.



obey1 -> RE: How to punish a slave that has broken every rule? (2/8/2007 10:33:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I refuse to argue in circles.

What about friendly debate in long rectangles such as these?

keeping something secret means anything is not uncontrolled.....

I meant her exterior control (there was no discovery), not her internal control.

....I would also feel like it was a failure on MY part that they needed to keep it a secret.

Yes, that point we seem all to agree on.  The Dom failed at least through lack of observation or better.



OOOhhh, I just made "Kinky" status here!



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