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Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 9:18:35 AM   
ServenteMail


Posts: 23
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		What is the desire (if any) a straight Female has in a male sub in a relationship? Does not the pussification of men apply even more if they now act and consider themselves as subs or slaves both emmotionally and in life and business and sexually?

And to clarify I am not talking of the pro’s or women who need males for money or labor – I am talking about just a good old vanilla relationship – where the guy is the pussy. What is programming that exists in a FD/ms LTR that goes against what has been programmed into the genders?

What do you do with an 50+ year old m. slave who lived such a life when you are done with it? Do these become the bums we see walking the streets with no money and place to live?

Be honest.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 9:34:31 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Since I ultimately seek ONLY a lifelong long term relationship, when I find a dedicated, compatible, monogamous
submissive male that loves me as much as I will cherish him, I will hold on to him for dear life and pray we 
stay together.  We both will seek NO more, ever.
Ideally we will grow old together and make it on this earth until we are near 100 years old.
Death will only be a temporary state, until we are reunited again forever.
So that is my answer, I plan to keep him forever.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to ServenteMail)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 9:45:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I dont see why a guy would have to fit the bizarre description you give, in order to enter a Femdom relationship or be in one?

I also dont see where the "programmed" gender roles you describe, are necessarily applicable in modern life?

I think what youre getting at, is that a man is only viable as such and attractive to women, if he beats his chest a lot and either is already or might be capable of becoming, head gorilla.

There is more than one way to be a man, SM. And every woman is different and looks for different things.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 10:14:43 AM   
BBBTBW


Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline 		I seriously think this is a thread started by someone seeking DRAMA on the boards.  Simply because of his use of certain words.

_____________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means" -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

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RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 10:19:59 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline 		I think you have a skewed view of what submissive males bring to the plate by their essence of being. It's kind of like the whole doormat analogy. It's rarely real or true, but it serves as a really good stereotype.

I identify as a male submissive, a slave when owned by a woman. At the same time, I'm actually quite sought after from time to time by vanilla women, and bizarrely by submissive women. I have a lot I bring to the plate, like a sense of humor, intelligence and an outlook on life that is completely different than your average Joe. When I am involved in a relationship, I am not just some slug that does chores. I'm a living, breathing, vibrant personality that uses my skills to encapsulate a woman's interest and make her life a better moment for the time that I'm in her life.  All that is truly different between me and a dominant male or a non-bdsm male is that I'm submissive. I prefer to be told what to do in the context of the relationship.

This means I seek out a woman who is bathed in the desire to have someone at her beck and call, someone she can control and decide what is best for her, and as a result, for us. When someone like me becomes submissive, I don't turn into the random slug that is interchangeable with every other random slug.

But what still manages to surprise the hell out of me is that SO MANY people still believe this to be the case. I don't mean just a male that's writing about why be a slave, or a woman who doesn't understand the dynamic, but even people who DO cater to the lifestyle.

During my 7-10 year hiatus from the community, I found myself in a number of vanilla relationships, and they just weren't for me. Some of us are built a certain way psychologically, and that's not a bad thing. Finding the opposite of us is much harder. Even the Internet match systems aren't designed to help in this. An example is Match.com. I signed up for it, and all they kept hooking me up with were women who were just like me. Finding another submissive, but as a female, might appear intriguing, and for all giggles and purposes, marrying another submissive might be exactly the right thing for me, but such services, as quantitative in nature as they are, are not built to help you find the opposite of what you are, which for a submissive would be a dominant, and for a dominant, a submissive.

Anyway, I'm rambling now....


_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to ServenteMail)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 10:49:46 AM   
ServenteMail


Posts: 23
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		Mz Mia,
Thank you for your input. But what is it as F Domme that does not disgust you at the thought of a man being submissive around you? Women I talk with (recent divorcees, just dating, NSA friends) are disgusted of dealing with wussy men. The men of these vanilla marriages are even more pathetic than a life style slave.

LadyEllen –
Modern life? Our species is not that old and primal characteristic of the sexes are founded in both man and other species. W/we are all quite similar.


BBTBW
You are incorrect


Littlesarbon,
No you are not rambling. You offer your view of things. Thank you. I really want to understand the psyche of a F Domme though. What is it that goes against programming of their gender to NOT be repulsed by sub males?

Same way a strict heterosexual women/male is repulsed by lesbianism/homosexuality. Sure we can throw in different strokes for different folks to end this thread now but, specific in a FD/ms LTR where the roles are so reversed why does not the female run from the pathetic mate?

(in reply to littlesarbonn)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 11:19:58 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

Mz Mia,
Thank you for your input. But what is it as F Domme that does not disgust you at the thought of a man being submissive around you? Women I talk with (recent divorcees, just dating, NSA friends) are disgusted of dealing with wussy men. The men of these vanilla marriages are even more pathetic than a life style slave.





I'll try one more time. I believe you are mistaken in your characterizations of submissive males, and THAT is why you can't understand it. Submissive males are not similar to "wussy men". They're nothing like them.
quote:


Littlesarbon,
No you are not rambling. You offer your view of things. Thank you. I really want to understand the psyche of a F Domme though. What is it that goes against programming of their gender to NOT be repulsed by sub males?


This is part of the same problem. You assume there should be an automatic repulsion concerning sub males, but for reasons that don't really exist.

quote:


Same way a strict heterosexual women/male is repulsed by lesbianism/homosexuality. Sure we can throw in different strokes for different folks to end this thread now but, specific in a FD/ms LTR where the roles are so reversed why does not the female run from the pathetic mate?




The analogy doesn't actually fit. A heterosexual woman isn't repulsed by lesbianism/homosexuality. She just isn't a lesbian or a homosexual. You keep assuming a need for repulsion in exchange for non-interest. The causality doesn't exist. Neither does the correlation.

What kind of sums it up for me is your use of "pathetic mate". If that's how you look at submissive males, NO ONE is ever going to be able to explain to you why a female dominant is attracted to a submissive male because you don't understand enough about submissive males to be able to understand the explanation. You're using a fantasy definition of submissive males that covers no more than 5 percent of most males involved in bdsm relationships (not in fantasy sessions). Most male submissives that are successful would NEVER identify with believing themselves to be pathetic mates. Again, it's the whole "worm" fantasy that is just that...a fantasy that has absolutely no basis in mainstream reality.

I'm going to end with this post because I'm suspecting it's going to turn into a conversation that I really don't want to continue having, one that does go to the fantasy driven arena of which I don't play, nor do I believe has a basis in reality.




< Message edited by littlesarbonn -- 2/7/2007 11:20:37 AM >

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to ServenteMail)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 11:56:52 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Thank you. I really want to understand the psyche of a F Domme though. What is it that goes against programming of their gender to NOT be repulsed by sub males?


I'm not in the least bit attracted to what you refer to as "wussy" men... I absolutely adore masculine men. If they happen to be very tall... 6'2" or better... I love it even more! Tattoos, muscle and lot of it, facial hair, long hair construction worker type... oh yeah... I love it!! And a mind to go with it... intelligent, great conversationalist... I'd be in heaven!

What's the draw? Power... absolutely. To know that the man in question doesn't lack power, isn't "needy" or whiney... can take care of himself in damn near any situation from a deadline at work to a bar fight.... but he gives that to me.. he kneels to no one... but he gives that to me... Yep... it's power, it's being given the power, it's being given the authority that no one else in his life has... that's the big difference between a male submissive and the puss down the street that cowtows to his wife to keep peace.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 12:39:15 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

What is the desire (if any) a straight Female has in a male sub in a relationship? Does not the pussification of men apply even more if they now act and consider themselves as subs or slaves both emmotionally and in life and business and sexually?

And to clarify I am not talking of the pro’s or women who need males for money or labor – I am talking about just a good old vanilla relationship – where the guy is the pussy. What is programming that exists in a FD/ms LTR that goes against what has been programmed into the genders?

What do you do with an 50+ year old m. slave who lived such a life when you are done with it? Do these become the bums we see walking the streets with no money and place to live?

Be honest.



You're assuming that all Female Dominants want "pussies". I have two cats. That seems to be enough for me. What I want in a Master'slave relationship with a male is just about identical as to what I'd want from a female: surrender to me and to the Universe and the desire to serve both.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

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Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 12:50:31 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

What is the desire (if any) a straight Female has in a male sub in a relationship? Does not the pussification of men apply even more if they now act and consider themselves as subs or slaves both emmotionally and in life and business and sexually?

And to clarify I am not talking of the pro’s or women who need males for money or labor – I am talking about just a good old vanilla relationship – where the guy is the pussy. What is programming that exists in a FD/ms LTR that goes against what has been programmed into the genders?

What do you do with an 50+ year old m. slave who lived such a life when you are done with it? Do these become the bums we see walking the streets with no money and place to live?

Be honest.


 
I think you have a very innaccurate idea of male submisssion vs a fetish.
 
Male submissives have the honor of allowing the Mistresse to entertain them with what SHE knows.  He enjoys doing to her what She likes in return (at least that is how it is me and mine).  If you had ever called any of the males' subbmission that I have interacted with as"pussification".. you'd be handed your front teeth.  Except for the Judo master who proabably would had flipped you out the door.
 
I have never feminized a male nor asked him to *humiliate himself for me.   (*other than the one time in his begining where he wanted to try it). 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 12:54:01 PM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

And to clarify I am not talking of the pro’s or women who need males for money or labor – I am talking about just a good old vanilla relationship – where the guy is the pussy. What is programming that exists in a FD/ms LTR that goes against what has been programmed into the genders?


This makes no sense - you say you are talking about a vanilla relationship, but then ask about FemDom programming??  There is no such thing as a FemDom programme!  We are Dominas because that is what we are called to be.  You suggest that somehow we are incorrectly wired to be Dominant.  Your thread reads more like Domina and submissive male bashing than anything else.  And yet you claim to be submissive?  Odd.
 
~Kara

_____________________________

"Never eat more than you can lift." ~ Miss Piggy

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RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 1:58:39 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, the end result of my pussification training is that I become a full-fledged, dysfunctional dweeb in a french maids dress.

And..... this is the precursor to being a shunned, homeless bum (with better than average hygiene) in later age.

The flip side, sometimes forgotten by astute observes of human development, is the cockification of my Mistress which results in higher wages for her but also a shrinking breast size and distension of her clitoris.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/7/2007 2:01:05 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 2:12:56 PM   
sfhumiliate


Posts: 6
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think we're talking about two different submissive archtypes.

For instance, Samson and Delilah.  Samson was the strongest of the strong, until Delilah cut his hair.  Batman and Catwoman, Batman is a paragon among men (rich, smart, strong, handsome, etc.).  A paragon submitting to a mistress as an archtype.

Another archtype that Sarbonn disses as a fantasy is the cross-dressing french maid (that might also be a cuckolded husband) whose Mistress humiliates and treats as a pathetic worm. 

Two different relationship archtypes.  The second possibly having poly relationship elements (with all of the additional issues that poly relationships have). 

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 2:33:13 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Just to throw another angle on the subject. Even as a lesbian dominant I don't like wussies. I am not attracted to women that would fit that terminology at all. I like a woman that is feminine but also intelligent and confident. A woman that many, might well, perceive as being dominant.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 2:36:19 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		LOL I like this thread, it is all over the map.  Let me add this:  Are any of the "wussies" any of the LEGIONS of
males on this site begging for strap on's and to be turned into sissy maids?  That would make most of the male
submissive's here "wussies".
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwww

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 2:48:47 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I was absent on the day they programmed the genders. As far as I am concerned those cookie cutter molds that people try to jam humans through is wrong. Let each person be who they truly are and not what a fucked up society says that they should be.

As far as pussification, thats an alpha male who hides behind a macho "image" or is afraid of dominant females.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 2:52:47 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		My male sub is no wussie in fact if you stood him up with some alpha macho males you wouldnt be able to pick him out of the line up. He hunts, fishes, works a blue collar job and at night rubs my feet. Why? Because he is a submissive but only to ME.

Sub men are very brave, they aren't afraid of who they are and I've yet to meet one who was a groveling worm. They want to protect and serve their Mistresses. Give me a submale over a alpha anyday.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 3:03:08 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I totally agree Lashra. It takes a very strong man to be able to submit to a woman.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 3:58:44 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Programmed into genders?

What does that even mean?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Paradox of the sexes - 2/7/2007 4:21:42 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ServenteMail

Same way a strict heterosexual women/male is repulsed by lesbianism/homosexuality. Sure we can throw in different strokes for different folks to end this thread now but, specific in a FD/ms LTR where the roles are so reversed why does not the female run from the pathetic mate?



I think I may be able to answer your question. (and as it pertains to me)
I was raised in the 50's.  At that time, women were basically raised to"be submissive".  The reason why I prefer a submissive man is because I know what it takes to be submissive ... they know what it is like to be non-submissive due to their oriented gender.  There is a great difference between being EXPECTED to be submissive and CHOOSING to be submissive. When  male is attracted to me enough to defer to me, I feel appreciated for my strengths.  In turn, I appreciate him and treat him with the dignity due him. Does that help?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to ServenteMail)
Profile   Post #: 20
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